klr kaput (kontinued)

[E.L. Green]

If you ever wanted one of those idiot lights, a little penguin (heh) designed one for you: http://badtux.blogspot.com/2005/12/12v-charging-system-monitor.html I suspect this circuit is identical to a patented circuit, even though it was completely and totally independently designed on the back of (multiple) envelopes yesterday, but luckily little penguins are hard to track down and slap with injunctions (heh!). Next up: The actual assembly and installation. -E

[James Morrow Sr]

Yep I had all kinds of good designs too, plenty of multi level voltage IC's available too. By the time I got done making it and scrounging up all the parts, it would still be $10 and all my time. For $26 you get a microproccessor circuit, all potted up, even a nice decal. I drilled a hole in the open square on the right on speedo dash, and put the LED their, potted circuit velcroed in fuse box. Looks like it came with the bike, very reliable, very accurate. Really like it http://www.signaldynamics.com/products/Modules/HUVM.asp

On 12/13/05, E.L. Green wrote: > > If you ever wanted one of those idiot lights, a little penguin (heh) > designed one for you: > > http://badtux.blogspot.com/2005/12/12v-charging-system-monitor.html > > I suspect this circuit is identical to a patented circuit, even though > it was completely and totally independently designed on the back of > (multiple) envelopes yesterday, but luckily little penguins are hard to > track down and slap with injunctions (heh!). > > Next up: The actual assembly and installation. > > -E > > > > Archive Quicksearch at: > http://www.angelfire.com/ut/moab/klr650_data_search.html > List sponsored by Dual Sport News at: www.dualsportnews.com > List FAQ courtesy of Chris Krok at: www.bigcee.com/klr650faq.html > Member Map at: http://www.frappr.com/dsnklr650 > Yahoo! Groups Links > > > > > > > -- James Morrow Sr Union, MO '00' RT + dual plug + Bunkhouse '00' BUSA + 15hp '05' KLR650 + big fun factor [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

[E.L. Green]

James Morrow Sr wrote:

>Yep I had all kinds of good designs too, plenty of multi level voltage IC's >available too. By the time I got done making it and scrounging up all the >parts, it would still be $10 and all my time. >

Indeed. The only reason to build it yourself is if either a) you already have pretty much all the parts in your electronics junk box and want to play around with your soldering iron, or b) you want it to trigger at voltages different from the pre-potted one. And (b) isn't *that* good a reason. Some of us just like playing with our soldering iron (heh!). -E

[Blake Sobiloff]

On 12/13/05, James Morrow Sr wrote:

> http://www.signaldynamics.com/products/Modules/HUVM.asp

Now, THAT'S what I've been searching for! That's the first one I've seen that'll give me an indication of an over-voltage condition. Call me paranoid, but I don't have the greatest confidence in the stock regulator/rectifier and would really like to make sure I'm not baking my battery. Yeaaaa--thanks, James! -- Blake Sobiloff http://sobiloff.typepad.com/blakeblog/> San Jose, CA (USA)

[E.L. Green]

Blake Sobiloff wrote:

>On 12/13/05, James Morrow Sr wrote: > > >>http://www.signaldynamics.com/products/Modules/HUVM.asp >> >> >Now, THAT'S what I've been searching for! That's the first one I've >seen that'll give me an indication of an over-voltage condition. Call >

Looks like they're using one of the PIC's with a voltage comparater like the PIC12F629 (or even splurging for a PIC12F675 with an A/D converter) . Which requires a 78L05 to give the PIC its supply voltage, and you still need the two output transisters and current limiting resisters to drive the LED's, and still need a voltage ladder to bring the 12v down to a voltage that the PIC can deal with. The upside is that then you can use the PIC to blink the LED's, so that you have actually six states (blinking red, red, blinking yellow, yellow, blinking green, green) instead of just three (red,yellow,green). It will actually typically use slightly less energy than the discrete circuit because the PIC's comparators use very little power compared to the discrete components and there is not one transister that spends most of its time (when in green state) sinking a quarter-watt of power as waste heat. The downside is that you just added a sophisticated microprocessor to the circuit (albeit one priced at under $2) and have to worry about programming it, and you can't fiddle the reference voltages just by piddling with a couple of potentiometers, and the whole thing will be slightly bulkier (maybe, depending on the size of your trim pots, which could easily be bigger than the PIC). I have to say that the price is right, especially considering how big a PIA it is to program a PIC. I might be putting in an order for one of those guys myself! -E

[Jeff Saline]

Eric, James, I took a look at these LED indicators and I have a question. How do you tell you are only running on battery voltage when the battery is still fresh? It looks to me like you get a green light at any voltage above 12 volts. At 12 volts you have a dead battery. I like the one I use with two LEDs, one glowing brightly all the time and the other out at about 11.7 volts or so and then increasing in brightness until about 14.5 volts where it matches the always bright LED for brightness. It's pretty easy to look at the LEDs and figure out about where you are charging voltage wise. I found the design on the web about 6 years ago and it was designed by a guy in England I think. I've been using this design since 2000 and it works well. If you or any other listers would like a text document about it and also a picture of the wiring diagram let me know. Best, Jeff Saline ABC # 4412 South Dakota Airmarshal Airheads Beemer Club www.airheads.org The Beautiful Black Hills of South Dakota 75 R90/6, 03 KLR650, 79 R100RT On Tue, 13 Dec 2005 14:16:54 -0500 James Morrow Sr writes:

> Yep I had all kinds of good designs too, plenty of multi level > voltage IC's > available too. By the time I got done making it and scrounging up > all the > parts, it would still be $10 and all my time. For $26 you get a > microproccessor circuit, all potted up, even a nice decal. I > drilled a hole > in the open square on the right on speedo dash, and put the LED > their, > potted circuit velcroed in fuse box. Looks like it came with the > bike, > very reliable, very accurate. Really like it > > http://www.signaldynamics.com/products/Modules/HUVM.asp > > > > > On 12/13/05, E.L. Green wrote: > > > > If you ever wanted one of those idiot lights, a little penguin > (heh) > > designed one for you: > > > > > http://badtux.blogspot.com/2005/12/12v-charging-system-monitor.html > > > > I suspect this circuit is identical to a patented circuit, even > though > > it was completely and totally independently designed on the back > of > > (multiple) envelopes yesterday, but luckily little penguins are > hard to > > track down and slap with injunctions (heh!). > > > > Next up: The actual assembly and installation. > > > > -E > > > > > > > > Archive Quicksearch at: > > http://www.angelfire.com/ut/moab/klr650_data_search.html > > List sponsored by Dual Sport News at: www.dualsportnews.com > > List FAQ courtesy of Chris Krok at: www.bigcee.com/klr650faq.html > > Member Map at: http://www.frappr.com/dsnklr650 > > Yahoo! Groups Links > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > -- > James Morrow Sr > Union, MO > '00' RT + dual plug + Bunkhouse > '00' BUSA + 15hp > '05' KLR650 + big fun factor > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > > > > Archive Quicksearch at: > http://www.angelfire.com/ut/moab/klr650_data_search.html > List sponsored by Dual Sport News at: www.dualsportnews.com > List FAQ courtesy of Chris Krok at: www.bigcee.com/klr650faq.html > Member Map at: http://www.frappr.com/dsnklr650 > Yahoo! Groups Links > > > > > > > >

[Norm Keller]

An alternative to the LED voltage monitor is to mount a volt meter in the dash. Not necessarily a better option but simply another one. That's what I'm doing. Norm __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around http://mail.yahoo.com

[E.L. Green]

Jeff Saline wrote:

>Eric, James, > >I took a look at these LED indicators and I have a question. How do you >tell you are only running on battery voltage when the battery is still >fresh? It looks to me like you get a green light at any voltage above 12 >volts. At 12 volts you have a dead battery. >

At 12 volts you have a battery that's at about 70% charge. I have a discharge curve around here somewhere. 50% charge is at around 11.7v. A battery is fully discharged (for our purposes) at about 10.5 volts. Thus the voltages I picked out of the air. If it's below 12.1 but above 11.7 volts, you know it's discharging, but you still have a fair amount of charge, between 50-80% charge. If it's below 11.7v, you better darn well quit discharging the bloody thing! But you can adjust the threshhold voltages to whatever you wish on my design. Note that this all depends on the battery chemistry too. Lead-calcium batteries have different characteristics compared to lead-antimony batteries. You might want to tweak the pots accordingly. A good resource: http://www.azsolarcenter.com/technology/batteries/pdfs/apx-a.pdf Finally, simplicity is a virtue. There is a chip out the that will drive a segmented LED "bar graph" for an automotive voltage monitor. But it's a lot easier to glance at an idiot light than make sense of a bar graph, even if there were an easy way to mount a segmented "bar graph" LED display on a KLR. In that respect, the PIC design that blinks above 15v (to denote a failed voltage regulator) and blinks below 11v (to denote a discharged battery) is preferable to the segmented "bar graph" or even the "two-LED" design. -E

[E.L. Green]

Norm Keller wrote:

>An alternative to the LED voltage monitor is to mount >a volt meter in the >dash. >

Delicate mechanical movements and a motorcycle that spends much of its existence thumping over rough gravel and dirt roads and two-track jeep trails don't seem very compatible, to me. I thought about mounting a volt meter, but discarded it -- there's no easy place on a KLR to mount it, and between the vibration from the thumper and the vibration from rocketting down rough roads, I didn't think it would be durable enough. The LED "idiot light" has two advantages in this situation - durability, and ease of mounting. It's far more durable than a mechanical movement, and it's easy to find a place to mount one single light. -E

[J Fortner]

Costs a bit but it will stand up to the elements. DATEL DMS-20PC-0-DCM http://tinyurl.com/dgytz Jim Fortner Plano, TX