anodize your aluminum kaw parts greenl

[darkwing327]

Hello Everyone, I call upon all the KLR gods on the forum to help me solve a suspension problem (I think) before the bike drives me crazy or kills me. This may be long winded, however bear with me as I think eveyone aprreciates too much info rather than not enough when trying to solve a problem. My bike likes to try and pitch me off not so much when off roading but when driving to the trails on the gravel road. Going up the mountain isn't bad but coming down is downright scary. It seems like the bike is pushing the front tire too hard as it grabs onto ridges in the road quite aggressively and then loses all traction and the front tire slides out(I know that statement contradicts itself, but that's how it feels). 2002 A16 KLR-Bought new, rode it bone stock for about a month. Never noticed this problem. With the style of riding that I was doing the front and rear suspension was bottoming out so I ordered and installed LR progressive front springs and the 560 progressive rear spring. Here's how it went. 1. Installed front springs, cut down the spacer to 2" and put heavier fork oil in (sorry, can't remember what weight, does 15w sound right?). Also can't remember if we put the tighter wound coils on top or bottom. I will dissasemble to inspect if someone could let me know if the tighter would coils should be on the top or bottom? Should the spacer be on the top or bottom of the springs? 2. Installed rear progressive 560 spring with no apparent problems. 3. From here we went out riding and I think I was so impressed with the ability to ride without bottoming the suspension that I failed to notice the instability at first. Coming down the fire roads after further rides I felt increasingly uncomfortable as the year progressed. I had a couple of other guys ride the bike with emphasis on the front end and they told me it felt like the bike was forcing too much weight forward and it was the back end causing the problem. One of the fellows adjusted the rebound dampening for me to position 2 and the stability felt much better. I rode like this for a year until it finally was able to pitch me off on a downhill road. The front tire grabbed a ridge, turned sideways and threw me down hard. My KLR had hurt me more on a graded road more than any dirt bike in the bush ever had. I had some more guys ride it again and they agreed it was squirrely. 4. Next-new tires. These felt better, but only until the sharp edges on the knobs were worn off and then back to the same feeling. Here is where I am at today. I am thinking once I get verification from some knowledgeable listers I will take apart the front forks and check the assembly to make sure it's correct. I have a stock rear spring coming from Devon already to swap in and check to see if this is the problem (I think this is it). Has anybody done the same spring swaps as I have and can you let me know if you have found any wierd handling characteristics? What, if anything could I have screwed up on the install of the rear spring? If the 560 spring is the problem and I put the stock rear spring back in, is there any other way to keep the rear suspension from bottoming out, or does that even hurt it? Lastly, if the stock spring is too light and the 560 is too heavy, is there something in between that you have found that works? Any ideas would be greatly appreciated. Thanks much in advance. Darren

[Chris]

How heavy are you? Are your fork tubes flush with the top clamp? I'm also assuming you didn't add lowering links?? I've got the same setup at 270lbs, I'm on preload 3 on the shock, with 2.75" spacers up front (stock spacers cut in half). Only diff in spec with mine are stock tires. Feels quite balanced.

On Wed, Jun 09, 2004 at 05:05:48PM -0000, darkwing327 wrote: > Hello Everyone, > > I call upon all the KLR gods on the forum to help me solve a > suspension problem (I think) before the bike drives me crazy or kills > me. This may be long winded, however bear with me as I think eveyone > aprreciates too much info rather than not enough when trying to solve > a problem. > > My bike likes to try and pitch me off not so much when off roading > but when driving to the trails on the gravel road. Going up the > mountain isn't bad but coming down is downright scary. It seems like > the bike is pushing the front tire too hard as it grabs onto ridges > in the road quite aggressively and then loses all traction and the > front tire slides out(I know that statement contradicts itself, but > that's how it feels). > > 2002 A16 KLR-Bought new, rode it bone stock for about a month. Never > noticed this problem. With the style of riding that I was doing the > front and rear suspension was bottoming out so I ordered and > installed LR progressive front springs and the 560 progressive rear > spring. Here's how it went. > > 1. Installed front springs, cut down the spacer to 2" and put heavier > fork oil in (sorry, can't remember what weight, does 15w sound > right?). Also can't remember if we put the tighter wound coils on > top or bottom. I will dissasemble to inspect if someone could let me > know if the tighter would coils should be on the top or bottom? > Should the spacer be on the top or bottom of the springs? > > 2. Installed rear progressive 560 spring with no apparent problems. > > 3. From here we went out riding and I think I was so impressed with > the ability to ride without bottoming the suspension that I failed to > notice the instability at first. Coming down the fire roads after > further rides I felt increasingly uncomfortable as the year > progressed. I had a couple of other guys ride the bike with emphasis > on the front end and they told me it felt like the bike was forcing > too much weight forward and it was the back end causing the problem. > One of the fellows adjusted the rebound dampening for me to position > 2 and the stability felt much better. I rode like this for a year > until it finally was able to pitch me off on a downhill road. The > front tire grabbed a ridge, turned sideways and threw me down hard. > My KLR had hurt me more on a graded road more than any dirt bike in > the bush ever had. I had some more guys ride it again and they > agreed it was squirrely. > > 4. Next-new tires. These felt better, but only until the sharp edges > on the knobs were worn off and then back to the same feeling. > > Here is where I am at today. I am thinking once I get verification > from some knowledgeable listers I will take apart the front forks and > check the assembly to make sure it's correct. I have a stock rear > spring coming from Devon already to swap in and check to see if this > is the problem (I think this is it). > > Has anybody done the same spring swaps as I have and can you let me > know if you have found any wierd handling characteristics? > > What, if anything could I have screwed up on the install of the rear > spring? > > If the 560 spring is the problem and I put the stock rear spring back > in, is there any other way to keep the rear suspension from bottoming > out, or does that even hurt it? > > Lastly, if the stock spring is too light and the 560 is too heavy, is > there something in between that you have found that works? > > Any ideas would be greatly appreciated. > > Thanks much in advance. > Darren > -- ___ ______ _____ __ ________ ___ / _ |< < / == / ___/__ / /_ /_ __/ / __ ____ _ ___ /__ \ / __ |/ // / ****/ (_ / _ \/ __/ / / / _ \/ // / ' \/ _ \ /__/ /_/ |_/_//_/ == \___/\___/\__/ /_/ /_//_/\_,_/_/_/_/ .__/ (_) 8600 miles*Russel Lines*Supertrapp Race* /_/ http://www.kingsqueak.org/klr650/

[rm@richardmay.net]

On Wed, 9 Jun 2004, darkwing327 wrote:

>I call upon all the KLR gods on the forum to help me solve a suspension >problem (I think) before the bike drives me crazy or kills me. This may >be long winded, however bear with me as I think eveyone aprreciates too >much info rather than not enough when trying to solve a problem.

[snip] It sounds like you're describing KLR that's being ridden off-road with street tire pressures. How much air are you running, and what tires are you using? RM

[darkwing327]

Hi Chris, I am 225 lbs. The fork tubes are flush with the top of the clamp. No lowering links. I see you cut your spacers longer than suggested in the install instructions of 2". Not that this is wrong however how did you come up with 2.75". Thanks for your help. Darren

----- Original Message ----- From: "Chris" To: "KLR 650 LIST" DSN_klr650@yahoogroups.com> Sent: Wednesday, June 09, 2004 11:38 AM Subject: Re: [DSN_klr650] Suspension help please > How heavy are you? Are your fork tubes flush with the top clamp? > > I'm also assuming you didn't add lowering links?? > > I've got the same setup at 270lbs, I'm on preload 3 on the shock, with > 2.75" spacers up front (stock spacers cut in half). > > Only diff in spec with mine are stock tires. Feels quite balanced. > > On Wed, Jun 09, 2004 at 05:05:48PM -0000, darkwing327 wrote: > > Hello Everyone, > > > > I call upon all the KLR gods on the forum to help me solve a > > suspension problem (I think) before the bike drives me crazy or kills > > me. This may be long winded, however bear with me as I think eveyone > > aprreciates too much info rather than not enough when trying to solve > > a problem. > > > > My bike likes to try and pitch me off not so much when off roading > > but when driving to the trails on the gravel road. Going up the > > mountain isn't bad but coming down is downright scary. It seems like > > the bike is pushing the front tire too hard as it grabs onto ridges > > in the road quite aggressively and then loses all traction and the > > front tire slides out(I know that statement contradicts itself, but > > that's how it feels). > > > > 2002 A16 KLR-Bought new, rode it bone stock for about a month. Never > > noticed this problem. With the style of riding that I was doing the > > front and rear suspension was bottoming out so I ordered and > > installed LR progressive front springs and the 560 progressive rear > > spring. Here's how it went. > > > > 1. Installed front springs, cut down the spacer to 2" and put heavier > > fork oil in (sorry, can't remember what weight, does 15w sound > > right?). Also can't remember if we put the tighter wound coils on > > top or bottom. I will dissasemble to inspect if someone could let me > > know if the tighter would coils should be on the top or bottom? > > Should the spacer be on the top or bottom of the springs? > > > > 2. Installed rear progressive 560 spring with no apparent problems. > > > > 3. From here we went out riding and I think I was so impressed with > > the ability to ride without bottoming the suspension that I failed to > > notice the instability at first. Coming down the fire roads after > > further rides I felt increasingly uncomfortable as the year > > progressed. I had a couple of other guys ride the bike with emphasis > > on the front end and they told me it felt like the bike was forcing > > too much weight forward and it was the back end causing the problem. > > One of the fellows adjusted the rebound dampening for me to position > > 2 and the stability felt much better. I rode like this for a year > > until it finally was able to pitch me off on a downhill road. The > > front tire grabbed a ridge, turned sideways and threw me down hard. > > My KLR had hurt me more on a graded road more than any dirt bike in > > the bush ever had. I had some more guys ride it again and they > > agreed it was squirrely. > > > > 4. Next-new tires. These felt better, but only until the sharp edges > > on the knobs were worn off and then back to the same feeling. > > > > Here is where I am at today. I am thinking once I get verification > > from some knowledgeable listers I will take apart the front forks and > > check the assembly to make sure it's correct. I have a stock rear > > spring coming from Devon already to swap in and check to see if this > > is the problem (I think this is it). > > > > Has anybody done the same spring swaps as I have and can you let me > > know if you have found any wierd handling characteristics? > > > > What, if anything could I have screwed up on the install of the rear > > spring? > > > > If the 560 spring is the problem and I put the stock rear spring back > > in, is there any other way to keep the rear suspension from bottoming > > out, or does that even hurt it? > > > > Lastly, if the stock spring is too light and the 560 is too heavy, is > > there something in between that you have found that works? > > > > Any ideas would be greatly appreciated. > > > > Thanks much in advance. > > Darren > > > -- > ___ ______ _____ __ ________ ___ > / _ |< < / == / ___/__ / /_ /_ __/ / __ ____ _ ___ /__ \ > / __ |/ // / ****/ (_ / _ \/ __/ / / / _ \/ // / ' \/ _ \ /__/ > /_/ |_/_//_/ == \___/\___/\__/ /_/ /_//_/\_,_/_/_/_/ .__/ (_) > 8600 miles*Russel Lines*Supertrapp Race* /_/ > http://www.kingsqueak.org/klr650/ > > > List sponsored by Dual Sport News at www.dualsportnews.com. List FAQ courtesy of Chris Krok at: www.bigcee.com/klr650faq.html > Unsubscribe by sending a blank message to: > DSN_klr650-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com . > > > Yahoo! Groups Links > > > > > >

[darkwing327]

I am running a kenda rear, not sure of the model at the moment-760 maybe? and a Mitas on the front. I have messed around with the pressures from 18-33 pounds and seem to have settled between 22-25. I don't know how to describe the feeling very well other than to say it feels like the front end is doing all the dancin' and the back half of the bike is just along for the ride. I just can't figure out if the front's too soft or the back's too hard. It just feels as if the 2 ends of the bike have a mind of their own. I have checked torques and retightened everything. I hope that makes sense. Thanks again for the help, much appreciated. Darren

----- Original Message ----- From: To: "darkwing327" Cc: DSN_klr650@yahoogroups.com> Sent: Wednesday, June 09, 2004 11:39 AM Subject: Re: [DSN_klr650] Suspension help please > > On Wed, 9 Jun 2004, darkwing327 wrote: > > >I call upon all the KLR gods on the forum to help me solve a suspension > >problem (I think) before the bike drives me crazy or kills me. This may > >be long winded, however bear with me as I think eveyone aprreciates too > >much info rather than not enough when trying to solve a problem. > > [snip] > > It sounds like you're describing KLR that's being ridden off-road with > street tire pressures. > > How much air are you running, and what tires are you using? > > RM > > > List sponsored by Dual Sport News at www.dualsportnews.com. List FAQ courtesy of Chris Krok at: www.bigcee.com/klr650faq.html > Unsubscribe by sending a blank message to: > DSN_klr650-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com . > > > Yahoo! Groups Links > > > > > >

[Krgrife@aol.com]

I know that I represent minority thinking here but I have always felt that the 500/560 spring is too heavy for the KLR's rising rate linkage even though I am a heavy load for the bike. My feeling is that with this spring the rate gets way too stiff as the linkage compresses and both the rising rate linkage and the stiffer part of the spring go into effect. I don't think the stock shock's damping is good enough to use with that spring rate. I have used the lighter Progressive 350/450 spring and thought it worked better, I had a little too much sag but I rarely bottomed the suspension and felt like I was using more of the linkage's travel than with the heavier spring. Also the 350/450 seemed better matched to the stock shocks damping which I had on the #3 setting. Suspension is awfully subjective, and I realize that my riding style off pavement is less aggressive than many others so what I like may not be suited for you. What kind of tire pressures are you running? Kurt Grife In a message dated 6/9/04 11:20:27 AM Pacific Daylight Time, darkwing327@... writes:

> I call upon all the KLR gods on the forum to help me solve a > suspension problem (I think) before the bike drives me crazy or kills > me. This may be long winded, however bear with me as I think eveyone > aprreciates too much info rather than not enough when trying to solve > a problem. > > My bike likes to try and pitch me off not so much when off roading > but when driving to the trails on the gravel road. Going up the > mountain isn't bad but coming down is downright scary. It seems like > the bike is pushing the front tire too hard as it grabs onto ridges > in the road quite aggressively and then loses all traction and the > front tire slides out(I know that statement contradicts itself, but > that's how it feels). > > 2002 A16 KLR-Bought new, rode it bone stock for about a month. Never > noticed this problem. With the style of riding that I was doing the > front and rear suspension was bottoming out so I ordered and > installed LR progressive front springs and the 560 progressive rear > spring. Here's how it went. > > 1. Installed front springs, cut down the spacer to 2" and put heavier > fork oil in (sorry, can't remember what weight, does 15w sound > right?). Also can't remember if we put the tighter wound coils on > top or bottom. I will dissasemble to inspect if someone could let me > know if the tighter would coils should be on the top or bottom? > Should the spacer be on the top or bottom of the springs? > > 2. Installed rear progressive 560 spring with no apparent problems. > > 3. From here we went out riding and I think I was so impressed with > the ability to ride without bottoming the suspension that I failed to > notice the instability at first. Coming down the fire roads after > further rides I felt increasingly uncomfortable as the year > progressed. I had a couple of other guys ride the bike with emphasis > on the front end and they told me it felt like the bike was forcing > too much weight forward and it was the back end causing the problem. > One of the fellows adjusted the rebound dampening for me to position > 2 and the stability felt much better. I rode like this for a year > until it finally was able to pitch me off on a downhill road. The > front tire grabbed a ridge, turned sideways and threw me down hard. > My KLR had hurt me more on a graded road more than any dirt bike in > the bush ever had. I had some more guys ride it again and they > agreed it was squirrely. > > 4. Next-new tires. These felt better, but only until the sharp edges > on the knobs were worn off and then back to the same feeling. > > Here is where I am at today. I am thinking once I get verification > from some knowledgeable listers I will take apart the front forks and > check the assembly to make sure it's correct. I have a stock rear > spring coming from Devon already to swap in and check to see if this > is the problem (I think this is it). > > Has anybody done the same spring swaps as I have and can you let me > know if you have found any wierd handling characteristics? > > What, if anything could I have screwed up on the install of the rear > spring? > > If the 560 spring is the problem and I put the stock rear spring back > in, is there any other way to keep the rear suspension from bottoming > out, or does that even hurt it? > > Lastly, if the stock spring is too light and the 560 is too heavy, is > there something in between that you have found that works? > > Any ideas would be greatly appreciated.

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

[Chris]

On Wed, Jun 09, 2004 at 11:34:25AM -0700, darkwing327 wrote:

> Hi Chris, > > I am 225 lbs. The fork tubes are flush with the top of the clamp. No > lowering links.

O.k. I would try preload of 3 on the back, couldn't hurt but it wouldn't make as drastic a diff from what you're describing either. There's still something else off.

> > I see you cut your spacers longer than suggested in the install instructions > of 2". Not that this is wrong however how did you come up with 2.75".

Honestly, when Devon and I were working on the setup, I forgot to bring anything for spacers and we just figured what the hey, let's cut the stockers directly in half and see how it feels. With my weight I figured a bit more preload shouldn't hurt if it didn't feel too tight putting the caps back on.

> Thanks for your help.

No problem. Next up I would check your steering head tension, there should be some resistance when you turn the bars with the wheel off the ground. If it just flops freely side to side, do the procedure to tighten it up so you have some drag on it. Also after you complete that, use a torque wrench and spec down the triple clamps, will take a good four or so passes over all the bolts to get them even again. This made a big difference in stability for me. Aside from that, and the air pressures as mentioned, I'm out of ideas here. -- ___ ______ _____ __ ________ ___ / _ |< < / == / ___/__ / /_ /_ __/ / __ ____ _ ___ /__ \ / __ |/ // / ****/ (_ / _ \/ __/ / / / _ \/ // / ' \/ _ \ /__/ /_/ |_/_//_/ == \___/\___/\__/ /_/ /_//_/\_,_/_/_/_/ .__/ (_) 8600 miles*Russel Lines*Supertrapp Race* /_/ http://www.kingsqueak.org/klr650/

[Krgrife@aol.com]

For off pavement riding I use 15 front, 18 rear. Makes quite a difference in how the tires grip. My real dirt rider friends use less but they have rim locks. Kurt Grife In a message dated 6/9/04 1:52:33 PM Pacific Daylight Time, darkwing327@... writes:

> > I am running a kenda rear, not sure of the model at the moment-760 maybe? > and a Mitas on the front. I have messed around with the pressures from >

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

[Judson D. Jones]

--- In DSN_klr650@yahoogroups.com, "darkwing327" wrote:

> Hello Everyone, > > I call upon all the KLR gods on the forum to help me solve a > suspension problem (I think) before the bike drives me crazy or kills > me. This may be long winded, however bear with me as I think eveyone > aprreciates too much info rather than not enough when trying to solve > a problem. > > My bike likes to try and pitch me off not so much when off roading > but when driving to the trails on the gravel road. Going up the > mountain isn't bad but coming down is downright scary. It seems like > the bike is pushing the front tire too hard as it grabs onto ridges > in the road quite aggressively and then loses all traction and the > front tire slides out(I know that statement contradicts itself, but > that's how it feels). > > 2002 A16 KLR-Bought new, rode it bone stock for about a month. Never > noticed this problem. With the style of riding that I was doing the > front and rear suspension was bottoming out so I ordered and > installed LR progressive front springs and the 560 progressive rear > spring. Here's how it went. > > 1. Installed front springs, cut down the spacer to 2" and put heavier > fork oil in (sorry, can't remember what weight, does 15w sound > right?). Also can't remember if we put the tighter wound coils on > top or bottom. I will dissasemble to inspect if someone could let me > know if the tighter would coils should be on the top or bottom? > Should the spacer be on the top or bottom of the springs? > > 2. Installed rear progressive 560 spring with no apparent problems. > > 3. From here we went out riding and I think I was so impressed with > the ability to ride without bottoming the suspension that I failed to > notice the instability at first. Coming down the fire roads after > further rides I felt increasingly uncomfortable as the year > progressed. I had a couple of other guys ride the bike with emphasis > on the front end and they told me it felt like the bike was forcing > too much weight forward and it was the back end causing the problem. > One of the fellows adjusted the rebound dampening for me to position > 2 and the stability felt much better. I rode like this for a year > until it finally was able to pitch me off on a downhill road. The > front tire grabbed a ridge, turned sideways and threw me down hard. > My KLR had hurt me more on a graded road more than any dirt bike in > the bush ever had. I had some more guys ride it again and they > agreed it was squirrely. > > 4. Next-new tires. These felt better, but only until the sharp edges > on the knobs were worn off and then back to the same feeling. > > Here is where I am at today. I am thinking once I get verification > from some knowledgeable listers I will take apart the front forks and > check the assembly to make sure it's correct. I have a stock rear > spring coming from Devon already to swap in and check to see if this > is the problem (I think this is it). > > Has anybody done the same spring swaps as I have and can you let me > know if you have found any wierd handling characteristics? > > What, if anything could I have screwed up on the install of the rear > spring? > > If the 560 spring is the problem and I put the stock rear spring back > in, is there any other way to keep the rear suspension from bottoming > out, or does that even hurt it? > > Lastly, if the stock spring is too light and the 560 is too heavy, is > there something in between that you have found that works? > > Any ideas would be greatly appreciated.

I have made the same changes, and think the bike handles much better. I weigh about 250 lb. The LR 500/560 will sack out less than the stock 288 lb, spring, and will therefore tend to transfer weight onto the front end by comparison, but not to a degree that I would find troublesome. Dave Jakeman has added preload spacers to the "granite" spring, which would exacerbate the effect, but he hasn't complained. Of course, he's a lot bigger than me.Well, a little bigger. There is a progressive 400-450 spring available, as well as straight-weight springs from other sources (Devon can tell you) in 25 or 50 lb increments. Some bottoming is inevitable even with the 560 spring. However, I don't think a nose-down attitude is your problem. Consider tires, pressures, and riding technique.

[Devon]

darkwing327@... wrote:

>Has anybody done the same spring swaps as I have and can you let me >know if you have found any wierd handling characteristics? >

My experience with the stock shock and 500-560 spring, was that the shock doesn't have enough rebound damping to deal with it. I'm 160, ride fairly agressively in pretty nasty terrain. A 400lb/in straight rate spring works very well for me. You said your friend set the rebound to "2". Was it at "1" before? Try more rebound damping. The KLR is front heavy for a dirtbike, no matter what you do. But I think you did set it up oversprung in the rear, and still a little undersprung in the front. Unfortunately, the 25lb/in-40lb/in progressive forksprings are essentially the only game in town for the KLR. I think a 30lb/in or 35lb/in straight rate would work much better, don't know if they exist.

> >What, if anything could I have screwed up on the install of the rear >spring? >

Unlikely that that's the problem. Nothing that wouldn't have totally broken doing the ride you describe.

> >If the 560 spring is the problem and I put the stock rear spring back >in, is there any other way to keep the rear suspension from bottoming >out, or does that even hurt it? > >

Lots of hard bottoming will cause other things on the bike to break. Like subframe bolts. eshocks.com sells LOTS of springs in between. 9"x2.25"ID. 400, 450, 500, etc. Devon