nklr consensus/opinion on riding on unused/disused land?

[jon.sykes@ps.ge.com]

Just wondering if anyone else in the group has this dilemma. Let's say I'm riding around on my KLR, no particular place to go and I come across some perfect KLR riding territory - maybe it's an area being prepared for new construction, maybe its just some open land. Let's say the area is out of the way, unfenced and there are no No Trespassing signs - in other words, nothing that says I should not be riding there. All I want to do is ride my bike there for a while, get dirty, do some jumps, etc. I don't want to break any laws or piss anyone off. Do I go for it, or do I pass? (Mostly I go for it, but I always kind of have to look over my shoulder out of fear that someone's going to come after me!) --- Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free. Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com). Version: 6.0.320 / Virus Database: 179 - Release Date: 1/30/2002

[Devon Jarvis]

My usual dilemma is finding an entry to riding areas where there are no posted signs visible. This in order to maintain plausible deniability. If the owners care about your presence, they will post or fence the property. Until then, keep the noise down, keep the place clean, and don't tell people about it who have really loud pipes. The longer noone knows you're there, the longer you will have that particular playground. Don't do this during hunting season. If you see people on horseback, leave immediately- If you spook somebody's horse, they'll call the cops the next time they hear a motor. Devon A15 jon.sykes@... wrote:

> > Just wondering if anyone else in the group has this dilemma. Let's say I'm > riding around on my KLR, no particular place to go and I come across some > perfect KLR riding territory - maybe it's an area being prepared for new > construction, maybe its just some open land. Let's say the area is out of > the way, unfenced and there are no No Trespassing signs - in other words, > nothing that says I should not be riding there. All I want to do is ride my > bike there for a while, get dirty, do some jumps, etc. I don't want to > break any laws or piss anyone off. Do I go for it, or do I pass? (Mostly I > go for it, but I always kind of have to look over my shoulder out of fear > that someone's going to come after me!) > > --- > Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free. > Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com). > Version: 6.0.320 / Virus Database: 179 - Release Date: 1/30/2002 > > > Checkout Dual Sport News at > http://www.dualsportnews.com > Be part of the Adventure! > > Visit the KLR650 archives at > http://www.listquest.com/lq/search.html?ln=klr650 > > Post message: DSN_klr650@yahoogroups.com > Subscribe: DSN_klr650-subscribe@yahoogroups.com > Unsubscribe: DSN_klr650-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com > List owner: DSN_klr650-owner@yahoogroups.com > > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/

[bradklr650]

Whoa - Devon many times I have read and agreed w/ your posts but this one I have to take exception to, I have a farm, I have grown corn, peas, hay, etc on about one eighty acre field, and I have had: People ride their quads through freshly sown fields People build duck blinds, People set up tree stands, I even had a couple of SOB's park their truck in my barn and then try to stick my dog with a broadhead from a tree stand they set up in my orchard, as I was a cop at the time I couldn't do what I wanted to to them, though I did send their asses to jail and impound the truck. I have had people tell me the fields were leased to them and I had to pay them for the pheasants (a**hole from a hunt club down the valley) I had shot, this took cojones as I was standing in my driveway with an over/under 20g under my arm. I CARE, it's posted (their torn down - plausible deniability I guess), it's fenced but they continue, in Washington State the property owner has no obligation to post his property, the charge for violating this is Criminal Trespass 2nd, a class C (5yrs)felony. Crossing a fence or opening a gate, you can be charged with Burglary (20 yrs). Construction sites, surveys are expensive, property gets vandalized (usually not by the rider but who is most visible) Plausible deniability, heard of ignorance of the law is no excuse, I heard this to many times to count as I taking someone to a State paid vacation. If some of these people have asked for the right to hunt, to ride, etc. I would have evaluted the request and maybe allowed it, now if you are not a close friend you don't get on my land and if you do you go to jail, I'm fed up with the sh*t. btw, in my area less than one mile away is hundreds of square miles of State forest lands open to all types of uses but people would rather destroy or damage property because they can see it from the pavement. Now I ranting time to go. Brad.

--- In DSN_klr650@y..., Devon Jarvis wrote: > My usual dilemma is finding an entry to riding areas where there are no > posted signs visible. This in order to maintain plausible deniability. > > If the owners care about your presence, they will post or fence the > property. Until then, keep the noise down, keep the place clean, and > don't tell people about it who have really loud pipes. The longer noone > knows you're there, the longer you will have that particular playground. > > Don't do this during hunting season. If you see people on horseback, > leave immediately- If you spook somebody's horse, they'll call the cops > the next time they hear a motor. > > Devon > A15 > > > > jon.sykes@p... wrote: > > > > Just wondering if anyone else in the group has this dilemma. Let's say I'm > > riding around on my KLR, no particular place to go and I come across some > > perfect KLR riding territory - maybe it's an area being prepared for new > > construction, maybe its just some open land. Let's say the area is out of > > the way, unfenced and there are no No Trespassing signs - in other words, > > nothing that says I should not be riding there. All I want to do is ride my > > bike there for a while, get dirty, do some jumps, etc. I don't want to > > break any laws or piss anyone off. Do I go for it, or do I pass? (Mostly I > > go for it, but I always kind of have to look over my shoulder out of fear > > that someone's going to come after me!) > > > > --- > > Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free. > > Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com). > > Version: 6.0.320 / Virus Database: 179 - Release Date: 1/30/2002 > > > > > > Checkout Dual Sport News at > > http://www.dualsportnews.com > > Be part of the Adventure! > > > > Visit the KLR650 archives at > > http://www.listquest.com/lq/search.html?ln=klr650 > > > > Post message: DSN_klr650@y... > > Subscribe: DSN_klr650-subscribe@y... > > Unsubscribe: DSN_klr650-unsubscribe@y... > > List owner: DSN_klr650-owner@y... > > > > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/

[Brent Bacon]

Subject: [DSN_klr650] Consensus/opinion on riding on unused/disused land?

> Just wondering if anyone else in the group has this dilemma. Let's say

I'm

> riding around on my KLR, no particular place to go and I come across some > perfect KLR riding territory - maybe it's an area being prepared for new > construction, maybe its just some open land. Let's say the area is out of > the way, unfenced and there are no No Trespassing signs - in other words, > nothing that says I should not be riding there.

Just because land is not posted does not mean that it is open. Much the same way that just because your bike may be parked with the keys in it, while you run in the store to get groceries, That doesn't mean any one can take a ride on it. All I want to do is ride my

> bike there for a while, get dirty, do some jumps, etc. I don't want to > break any laws or piss anyone off. Do I go for it, or do I pass? (Mostly

I

> go for it, but I always kind of have to look over my shoulder out of fear > that someone's going to come after me!)

I do a lot of hunting and I always get permission. I also have 190 acres in PA and I allow a certain amount of public hunting on it, but I don't want it overrun. At all times of the year recreational vehicles are to be on roads and trails only. During hunting season there is no use of any type of recreational vehicle allowed. I have a quite a bit of wildlife habitat that I want perserved. There is no reason that we can't all get along. brent

[st1anderson]

I guess it all depends on where you are. Here in AZ there is an awful lot of public land (BLM, state trust) that is leased to ranchers. There are a lot of barbwire fences and gates. The land is in use, right now, by the cattleman. It is common on a single days ride to have to open (and close!) half a dozen gates or more out here. So now, if one happens across in- holdings on public land, one might be on private property and quite legitimately not know it. Does this mean one is trespassing? No! At least out here in AZ, the laws are clear; it's only trespassing if you don't leave after being requested to do so. As far as signs, when I checked this law it stated something of the sort; a fenced property, signs every 300ft and at every road was the only thing close to being recognized as being requested to leave by the signs. Where this really applies is some sort of government property anyway. In the first place, none of the private land is marked like this anyway. So if I inadvertently end up on some private land and I'm requested to leave, I politely do so. The biggest exceptions are any kind of state or national park, or res land. Stay out of these. If caught inadvertently, leave as fast as you possibly can. One means jail and the other, quite possibly worse. This is going to be different for different places. Did the original post to this thread say where he was riding? Maybe different "rules" there.

[Brent Bacon]

Brad, All good points! Trespassing is illegal in most states posted or not. It is usually labeled something like aggravated trespass or criminal trespass if posters are up. bb

> Whoa - Devon many times I have read and agreed w/ your posts but this > one I have to take exception to, > > I have a farm, I have grown corn, peas, hay, etc on about one eighty > acre field, and I have had: > People ride their quads through freshly sown fields > People build duck blinds, People set up tree stands, I even had a > couple of SOB's park their truck in my barn and then try to stick my > dog with a broadhead from a tree stand they set up in my orchard, as > I was a cop at the time I couldn't do what I wanted to to them, > though I did send their asses to jail and impound the truck. > I have had people tell me the fields were leased to them and I had to > pay them for the pheasants (a**hole from a hunt club down the valley) > I had shot, this took cojones as I was standing in my driveway with > an over/under 20g under my arm. > > I CARE, it's posted (their torn down - plausible deniability I > guess), it's fenced but they continue, in Washington State the > property owner has no obligation to post his property, the charge for > violating this is Criminal Trespass 2nd, a class C (5yrs)felony. > Crossing a fence or opening a gate, you can be charged with Burglary > (20 yrs). > > Construction sites, surveys are expensive, property gets vandalized > (usually not by the rider but who is most visible) > > Plausible deniability, heard of ignorance of the law is no excuse, I > heard this to many times to count as I taking someone to a State paid > vacation. > > If some of these people have asked for the right to hunt, to ride, > etc. I would have evaluted the request and maybe allowed it, now if > you are not a close friend you don't get on my land and if you do you > go to jail, I'm fed up with the sh*t. > > btw, in my area less than one mile away is hundreds of square miles > of State forest lands open to all types of uses but people would > rather destroy or damage property because they can see it from the > pavement. > > Now I ranting time to go. > > Brad. > > --- In DSN_klr650@y..., Devon Jarvis wrote: > > My usual dilemma is finding an entry to riding areas where there > are no > > posted signs visible. This in order to maintain plausible > deniability. > > > > If the owners care about your presence, they will post or fence the > > property. Until then, keep the noise down, keep the place clean, and > > don't tell people about it who have really loud pipes. The longer > noone > > knows you're there, the longer you will have that particular > playground. > > > > Don't do this during hunting season. If you see people on horseback, > > leave immediately- If you spook somebody's horse, they'll call the > cops > > the next time they hear a motor. > > > > Devon > > A15 > > > > > > > > jon.sykes@p... wrote: > > > > > > Just wondering if anyone else in the group has this dilemma. > Let's say I'm > > > riding around on my KLR, no particular place to go and I come > across some > > > perfect KLR riding territory - maybe it's an area being prepared > for new > > > construction, maybe its just some open land. Let's say the area > is out of > > > the way, unfenced and there are no No Trespassing signs - in > other words, > > > nothing that says I should not be riding there. All I want to do > is ride my > > > bike there for a while, get dirty, do some jumps, etc. I don't > want to > > > break any laws or piss anyone off. Do I go for it, or do I > pass? (Mostly I > > > go for it, but I always kind of have to look over my shoulder out > of fear > > > that someone's going to come after me!) > > > > > > --- > > > Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free. > > > Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com). > > > Version: 6.0.320 / Virus Database: 179 - Release Date: 1/30/2002 > > > > > > > > > Checkout Dual Sport News at > > > http://www.dualsportnews.com > > > Be part of the Adventure! > > > > > > Visit the KLR650 archives at > > > http://www.listquest.com/lq/search.html?ln=klr650 > > > > > > Post message: DSN_klr650@y... > > > Subscribe: DSN_klr650-subscribe@y... > > > Unsubscribe: DSN_klr650-unsubscribe@y... > > > List owner: DSN_klr650-owner@y... > > > > > > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to > http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ > > > Checkout Dual Sport News at > http://www.dualsportnews.com > Be part of the Adventure! > > Visit the KLR650 archives at > http://www.listquest.com/lq/search.html?ln=klr650 > > Post message: DSN_klr650@yahoogroups.com > Subscribe: DSN_klr650-subscribe@yahoogroups.com > Unsubscribe: DSN_klr650-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com > List owner: DSN_klr650-owner@yahoogroups.com > > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ > > >

[Tengai650]

At 1:38 AM +0000 2/5/02, st1anderson wrote:

>I guess it all depends on where you are.

Yup.... here in central PA, we have a lot of strip mine and gas well land that we ride on without complaints from the owners. They do have signs up, but that's mainly to free themselves from liability. When "trespassing" on these lands, I tread lightly and go gonzo only in well established play areas. Although we can ride there OK, I generally try not to overstay my welcome and usually just use it as a thoroughfare whilst riding between state forest lands. Mark B2 A2 A3

[Devon Jarvis]

Brad, I'm sorry to hear that people are abusing your land. How hard is it to tell the difference between a field that is being used, and one that is laying fallow for the year (city boy, have I got that right?) or has already been cut if it's Fall. I have obviously hit a nerve, but you do understand the distinction between riding trails and woods on undeveloped property, and building a duck blind on somebody else's farm? If I had "hundreds of square miles" of land legally open to riding, I wouldn't ever put a tire on unattended property again. In NJ, there is NO state land where you can legally ride motorized vehicles. Not parks, not undeveloped land, nothing. The only legal areas are privately owned OHV parks. Or should I say park- there's only one in the state. The Meteor MC club owns some of it's own land, and somehow gets temporary access for two events a year. NY doesn't seem to be much better, at least within 100mi of the city. Connecticut has one public area for trail riding, which is only 7 miles long and is closed from October 15 to May 15. Gas pipelines, power transmission line right-of ways, trails through the woods, hayfields that have been unused for years, tell me how I'm hurting anybody? I am a law-abiding (in every other regard), taxpaying citizen and have almost no legal options for riding within 120 miles. I have called parks departments in all three states, asked every place around that sells motorcross bikes, and come up dry. This sucks. It sucks worse that a$$holes like your trespassers screw it up for people like me. Devon bradklr650 wrote:

> Whoa - Devon many times I have read and agreed w/ your posts but this > one I have to take exception to, > > I have a farm, I have grown corn, peas, hay, etc on about one eighty > acre field, and I have had: > People ride their quads through freshly sown fields > People build duck blinds, People set up tree stands, I even had a > couple of SOB's park their truck in my barn and then try to stick my > dog with a broadhead from a tree stand they set up in my orchard, as > I was a cop at the time I couldn't do what I wanted to to them, > though I did send their asses to jail and impound the truck. > I have had people tell me the fields were leased to them and I had to > pay them for the pheasants (a**hole from a hunt club down the valley) > I had shot, this took cojones as I was standing in my driveway with > an over/under 20g under my arm. > > I CARE, it's posted (their torn down - plausible deniability I > guess), it's fenced but they continue, in Washington State the > property owner has no obligation to post his property, the charge for > violating this is Criminal Trespass 2nd, a class C (5yrs)felony. > Crossing a fence or opening a gate, you can be charged with Burglary > (20 yrs). > > Construction sites, surveys are expensive, property gets vandalized > (usually not by the rider but who is most visible) > > Plausible deniability, heard of ignorance of the law is no excuse, I > heard this to many times to count as I taking someone to a State paid > vacation. > > If some of these people have asked for the right to hunt, to ride, > etc. I would have evaluted the request and maybe allowed it, now if > you are not a close friend you don't get on my land and if you do you > go to jail, I'm fed up with the sh*t. > > btw, in my area less than one mile away is hundreds of square miles > of State forest lands open to all types of uses but people would > rather destroy or damage property because they can see it from the > pavement. > > Now I ranting time to go. > > Brad. > > --- In DSN_klr650@y..., Devon Jarvis wrote: > > My usual dilemma is finding an entry to riding areas where there > are no > > posted signs visible. This in order to maintain plausible > deniability. > > > > If the owners care about your presence, they will post or fence the > > property. Until then, keep the noise down, keep the place clean, and > > don't tell people about it who have really loud pipes. The longer > noone > > knows you're there, the longer you will have that particular > playground. > > > > Don't do this during hunting season. If you see people on horseback, > > leave immediately- If you spook somebody's horse, they'll call the > cops > > the next time they hear a motor. > > > > Devon > > A15

[K.D. Bailey]

We are talking about vacant land cleared for construction? I was recently riding on the right of way for suburban rail. A construction foreman stopped me, saw that I was an adult and said something to the effect of "we aren't responsible if you get hurt". I promised to be careful and continued riding. I am sure that if I had been rude, a young kid or riding radically he would have told me to leave. K. D. Bailey Dallas