"quiet core" on big gun

[Glen Meyer]

KLR Listers, I remember seeing a post of why JFK was shot awhile back. I recently heard a radio show recently that I thought was very thought provoking. CAUTION very non "PC". This show has not aired yet and I am providing you with privy info. Enjoy If you would like to have a higher quality MP3 file, roughly 32 megs worth, email me off-list for the link. Real Audio launch link: http://216.10.100.20/ramgen/sos/so010818.rm Complete Show in MP3 format: http://www.steelonsteel.com/mp3/so2001-0818.mp3 Other info @ http://www.steelonsteel.com/ Glen Meyer- A13 "cheaper than flying" Post Falls, (North) Idaho USA [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

[Tom Simpson]

At 11:53 PM 8/14/01 -0700, Glen Meyer wrote:

>KLR Listers, > >I remember seeing a post of why JFK was shot awhile back. I recently >heard a radio show recently that I thought was very thought >provoking. CAUTION very non "PC". > >This show has not aired yet and I am providing you with privy info. Enjoy > >If you would like to have a higher quality MP3 file, roughly 32 megs >worth, email me off-list for the link.

All of the hyperbole and cannibalistic information churning that goes on within the alt.conspiracy.jfk crowd, a ballistic analysis of the assassination indicates that the most likely scenario (by far) was a single shooter firing from the rear. Other evidence puts Oswald at the scene, with the murder weapon, which he owned. Little reported, they have fibers from the shirt he was arrested in taken from the rifle's buttplate. This is a settled matter to anyone who wishes to examine the evidence with care and an open mind. -Tom '96 KLR 650 SC State Rifle Team '91-'93 Federally Licensed Gunsmith '86-'92

[Glen Meyer]

Open minded? Really- sounds like your mind is made up. But are you open minded enough to listen to the show and consider the evidence presented? Take the challenge. Don't assume that the Warren Commission Report is Gospel. Glen

> > All of the hyperbole and cannibalistic information churning that > goes on within the alt.conspiracy.jfk crowd, a ballistic analysis of the > assassination indicates that the most likely scenario (by far) was a

single

> shooter firing from the rear. Other evidence puts Oswald at the scene, > with the murder weapon, which he owned. Little reported, they have fibers > from the shirt he was arrested in taken from the rifle's buttplate. This > is a settled matter to anyone who wishes to examine the evidence with care > and an open mind. > > > -Tom > '96 KLR 650 > SC State Rifle Team '91-'93 > Federally Licensed Gunsmith '86-'92 > > > Visit the KLR650 archives at > http://www.listquest.com/lq/search.html?ln=klr650 > > Post message: DSN_klr650@yahoogroups.com > Subscribe: DSN_klr650-subscribe@yahoogroups.com > Unsubscribe: DSN_klr650-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com > List owner: DSN_klr650-owner@yahoogroups.com > > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ >

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[Tom Simpson]

At 09:05 AM 8/15/01 -0700, Glen Meyer wrote:

>Open minded? Really- sounds like your mind is made up.

I have been looking at this stuff for a number of years. Much of the information spread abut the wound ballistics of the event over the years have been badly distorted. I have made an effort at picking through the chaff looking for the occasional kernel of wheat. They have proven to be quite rare.

>But are you open minded enough to listen to the show and consider the >evidence presented?

I have downloaded it and will listen to it at my earliest opportunity.

>Take the challenge. Don't assume that the Warren Commission Report is >Gospel.

Parts of the Warren Commission Report are substantially flawed. That does not necessarily mean that it's findings are. -Tom '96 KLR 650

[racingreplicas@orwell.net]

Probably true Tom, but that ignores the question of who may have been involved with him etc. Jack Ruby's actions are still somewhat difficult to understand unless he was sent to "shut Oswald up" permanently. Ed Windsor

----- Original Message ----- From: "Tom Simpson" To: DSN_klr650@yahoogroups.com> Sent: Wednesday, August 15, 2001 10:57 AM Subject: Re: [DSN_klr650] NKLR Who shot JFK? > At 11:53 PM 8/14/01 -0700, Glen Meyer wrote: > >KLR Listers, > > > >I remember seeing a post of why JFK was shot awhile back. I recently > >heard a radio show recently that I thought was very thought > >provoking. CAUTION very non "PC". > > > >This show has not aired yet and I am providing you with privy info. Enjoy > > > >If you would like to have a higher quality MP3 file, roughly 32 megs > >worth, email me off-list for the link. > > > All of the hyperbole and cannibalistic information churning that > goes on within the alt.conspiracy.jfk crowd, a ballistic analysis of the > assassination indicates that the most likely scenario (by far) was a single > shooter firing from the rear. Other evidence puts Oswald at the scene, > with the murder weapon, which he owned. Little reported, they have fibers > from the shirt he was arrested in taken from the rifle's buttplate. This > is a settled matter to anyone who wishes to examine the evidence with care > and an open mind. > > > -Tom > '96 KLR 650 > SC State Rifle Team '91-'93 > Federally Licensed Gunsmith '86-'92 > > > Visit the KLR650 archives at > http://www.listquest.com/lq/search.html?ln=klr650 > > Post message: DSN_klr650@yahoogroups.com > Subscribe: DSN_klr650-subscribe@yahoogroups.com > Unsubscribe: DSN_klr650-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com > List owner: DSN_klr650-owner@yahoogroups.com > > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ > >

[Jimmy James]

Hey, these are great posts even if they don't pertain to bikes. I've been reading up on the coup d'etat that occurred in the US since it happened. I was sitting in my math class when the announcement came over the intercom that Kennedy had been shot. The entire class cheered, believe it or not. He wasn't well liked in South Carolina. Among the books in my Kennedy assassination library are; Crossfire, and Crime Boss( or Mob Boss, about Carlos Marcello). Have you guys read these? James in SC.... By the way, all of the assassinations had a common "lone nut" scenario. JFK, Bobby Kennedy, Martin Luther King, all supposedly done by "lone nuts". And, the latest.....our late bomber, Tim McVeigh. All of these nuts may have had a little help that they didn't even know they had. How improbable that the Kennedy motorcade JUST HAPPENED to have it's route changed the day before the assassination to one that included a horse shoe curve that JUST HAPPENED to pass by a building where an assassin JUST HAPPENED to have got a job in two weeks before.....Great Scott, maybe all the buildings had people in them that were prepared to shoot him.

----- Original Message ----- From: To: DSN_klr650@yahoogroups.com>; "Tom Simpson" Sent: Wednesday, August 15, 2001 10:48 PM Subject: Re: [DSN_klr650] NKLR Who shot JFK? > Probably true Tom, but that ignores the question of who may have been > involved with him etc. Jack Ruby's actions are still somewhat difficult to > understand unless he was sent to "shut Oswald up" permanently. > > > Ed > Windsor > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Tom Simpson" > To: DSN_klr650@yahoogroups.com> > Sent: Wednesday, August 15, 2001 10:57 AM > Subject: Re: [DSN_klr650] NKLR Who shot JFK? > > > > At 11:53 PM 8/14/01 -0700, Glen Meyer wrote: > > >KLR Listers, > > > > > >I remember seeing a post of why JFK was shot awhile back. I recently > > >heard a radio show recently that I thought was very thought > > >provoking. CAUTION very non "PC". > > > > > >This show has not aired yet and I am providing you with privy info. > Enjoy > > > > > >If you would like to have a higher quality MP3 file, roughly 32 megs > > >worth, email me off-list for the link. > > > > > > All of the hyperbole and cannibalistic information churning that > > goes on within the alt.conspiracy.jfk crowd, a ballistic analysis of the > > assassination indicates that the most likely scenario (by far) was a > single > > shooter firing from the rear. Other evidence puts Oswald at the scene, > > with the murder weapon, which he owned. Little reported, they have fibers > > from the shirt he was arrested in taken from the rifle's buttplate. This > > is a settled matter to anyone who wishes to examine the evidence with care > > and an open mind. > > > > > > -Tom > > '96 KLR 650 > > SC State Rifle Team '91-'93 > > Federally Licensed Gunsmith '86-'92 > > > > > > Visit the KLR650 archives at > > http://www.listquest.com/lq/search.html?ln=klr650 > > > > Post message: DSN_klr650@yahoogroups.com > > Subscribe: DSN_klr650-subscribe@yahoogroups.com > > Unsubscribe: DSN_klr650-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com > > List owner: DSN_klr650-owner@yahoogroups.com > > > > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ > > > > > > > > Visit the KLR650 archives at > http://www.listquest.com/lq/search.html?ln=klr650 > > Post message: DSN_klr650@yahoogroups.com > Subscribe: DSN_klr650-subscribe@yahoogroups.com > Unsubscribe: DSN_klr650-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com > List owner: DSN_klr650-owner@yahoogroups.com > > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ > >

[Tom Simpson]

At 11:31 AM 8/16/01 -0400, KLR650Pilot@... wrote:

>All you need to do is watch the film footage of the President's

motorcade. When Kennedy was shot his head jerked backward and a large >portion of his brain came out of his head and landed on the trunk of the car. The First Lady was observed climbing onto the back of the car to >retrieve a portion of her husbands cranium and brain tissue.

>Now, I am not a Seal, Ranger, or any other type of highly skilled

shootists, but, I have shot enough cans, melons, water jugs, etc., and I am >confident in my eyes, my experience, and my beliefs. John F. Kennedy was shot from the front. That is how the cranium piece and brain >tissue ended up on the rear trunk lid of the car. I really don't care what anyone says about it anymore, because, you are not going to be given the truth. In my mind, JKF was killed by a sniper placed on the grassy knoll or in the rain gutter access on the side of the road. That second one has been dealt with. Unless he was 3' 3" tall and had no arms, he could not have fit in there. Unless he fired a VERY high velocity handgun using his teeth, that is.

>When something is shot, the wound does not usually explode towards the

direction the bullet came from. This is not the case with high velocity rifle bullets. This high-velocity jetting phenomena ( sometimes in the direction of the firer) has been documented as far back as US Army testing with the then-new .30-06 cartridge in the Philippines prior to the First World War. Discarded Army mules that were shot in the head by rifles projected bone fragments and gray matter back onto the firers from a number of yards away. This phenomena has also been documented in tests using simulated skulls filled with simulated brain tissue many times. This jet may or may not move in the direction of the firer depending on a number of factors, as will be discussed below.

>When a bullet strikes an object that is fairly soft, the material

explodes and flies in the inertial direction of the bullets path. Again, this is not true with high velocity projectiles. Even a cursory examination of the literature in the field of wound ballistics will demonstrate this fact. This is true to a very minor degree with handgun projectiles, perhaps, owing to their tyically blunt configuration, but with rifle projectiles the displacement of soft tissue occurs *radially* from the bullets path though the tissue, as a wake does from the bow of a boat. In a confined space such as a skull (which is essentially a bone box stuffed with a sopping wet sponge), the effects seen are different than with, say muscle tissue, which is displaced and bruised but mostly snaps back into position intact, leasing behind a rather small permanent wound channel, or something like liver tissue, which suffers extensive and highly destructive tearing. In the skull, the brain tissue is displaced to a degree, but the hard confines of the skull limits the displacement, which results in a massive, momentary hydraulic overpressure bearing more-or-less evenly throughout the interior of the skull. Then, the weakest part of the skull fails under the load. In this case it is much of the right hemisphere that fails, owing to the extensive shattering of that side of the skull resulting from the somewhat shallow angle which the bullet entered and fragments of which exited near the right temple. The pressure is then violently relieved in the form of a high velocity jet of blood,gray matter and bone fragments in a forward and rightward direction, yawing the skull leftward and pitching and rolling it up and to the rear. Had the bullet struck him squarely in the back of the skull and disintegrated, leaving no exit wound, the jet may have exited the back of the skull towards the firer and propelled the head forward in that instance (or indeed, the entire skull may have been blown apart, if a higher velocity cartridge had been used). If he had been centerpunched in the back of the head and it had penetrated all the way through and out of his face intact, then the head might have actually been propelled to the rear (owing to the typical occurrence of a larger exit wound that entrance wound, resulting in a larger mass of ejected material forward), but this motion would be at a different angle, more straight back than the violent pivoting, rising yaw we see in the Zapruter film. This effect is largely independent of the bullets path and is dependant more on the location and size of the hole(s) and the amount of overpressure produced. This effect has also been reproduced in the lab and in fact can be seen sometimes in shooting plastic milk jugs filled with water (a 110 HP M1 carbine bullet out of a .30-06 at about 3,300 fps often does this...assuming it does not disintegrate in flight). Welcome to the wonderful, wacky and decidedly nonlinear world of high velocity terminal ballistics. Sadly, intuition or experience in tagging things with handguns buys you nothing in this arena.

>Therefore, JFK was shot in the head from the front.

Nope. The evidence is in fact most consistent with the shot coming from the rear, given the precise nature of the wounds and the evidence presented. Now ask me about CE399. Please.

>As for why? I would suggest that LBJ had something to do with it. Since

moving to Texas I have begun to learn how much of an a*&hole he >was. In fact, Ladybird Johnson owned a controlling amount of stock in a heavy equipment manufacturer. Who got the machinery? The US >military and other southern Asian countries. If I though there was a conspiracy, LBJ would be my bet, too, he being the major league crook and mental case that he was. But I don't particularly belive there was. Any conspiracy would necessarily have to involve Oswald, who was a widely-known fruitcake and would be too unstable to any sane group of conspirators to piddle with. When he defected to the USSR, KGB sized him up as an utter fool in very short order and had him dispatched as far out of harms way as they could.

>I honor the memories of the brave women and men that we lost over there.

Yet, it also makes me angry that they died for coal, money, and >oil. Oil may well have been an issue in our involvement in Vietnam. Any connection between that fact and the JFK assassination is tenuous at best, however. Incidentally, last time I checked, our economy ran on stuff like oil and coal. My job depends on oil and coal. I like oil and coal. And unless you push your KLR everywhere you go, you should at least have a grudging respect for the stuff yourself.

>That campaign wasn't even given the honor of bring called a war. For

what? To make some people rich. Same thing with Desert Storm >except we annihilated what troops would fight back against us. Isn't that the nature of war? -Tom

[Jimmy James]

Wow. Read "Crossfire" by Maars. This is a compilation of eyewitness reports and police investigations, all *extremely* well documented. If you can read this and still believe the disinformation that is still being circulated, I would be surprised. This was the damndest cover-up in the history of the US, and the amazing thing, to me, is that the people accepted all the crap that the TeeVee told them, and promptly forgot about it. In fact, MOST people want to forget about it, other than having a sort of curiosity about it. There is so much garbage and half truths put out that the real truth has been.....covered up. It's still there, however. And I was alive when it happened, and I still care, because I think that this was a real turning point in our history, that is, when people started losing faith in the US government. That is kinda' what the '60's were about. I was in military school during the Bay of Pigs fiasco... A feller here in my hometown bought, as scrap, over 50,000 m-60 machine guns and had them in a warehouse here in town. He bought them legally from the govamint. And then along comes another branch of the govamint, the CIA, and confiscated them. The guns were SUPPOSED to go to Cuba, but he somehow put in the winning bid. The CIA threatened to shut his mouth for him if he couldn't keep it shut himself (he died of cancer, fwiw)..... The same group of people keep turning up-- at the Bay of Pigs, at the Assassination, the Watergate Burglars( they were looking for information possibly revealed to Ellsberg concerning the assassination, among other things). It goes on and on... Lies, lies and more lies!! Crossfire is a good place to start reading about this, and eventually, you may be led to study about the New World Order. NOTHING that happens in politics is accidental.......

>.When Kennedy was shot his head jerked backward and a

When the Zapruder film was returned, the frames had been separated and re-assembled to show head movement to support the "lone assassin" theory.

> large >portion of his brain came out of his head and landed on the trunk

of Kennedy's brain has been stolen out of the archives. No more bullet fragments to study! (Ooops--that bullet didn't fragment. It did some aerobatics and hit Gov. Connelly!)

> am >confident in my eyes, my experience, and my beliefs. John F. Kennedy > was shot from the front.

Evidence suggests that there were nine(9!) shots fired in a diamond pattern. According to testimony, Oswald was in the canteen drinking a Coke at the time the shots were fired. A "sabot" was found on the roof of the school book depository, a shot hit the curb, a shot hit the windshield frame, a shot hit Gov. Connely, Etc., Etc. President Johnsons' first official acts were to send more troops into Vietnam and to have the presidential limousine repaired with a subsequent loss of evidence, such as blood spatter and the hole in the windshield.

>Therefore, JFK was shot in the head from the front.

He was also shot right through the knot in his tie. The doctor that examined his wounds at Parklane hospital wrote a book about it, and also about the CIA (I think) trying to prevent him from doing an examination. They autopsied him when they got him back to Bethesda(I think) by a group of people that butchered the remains......A tracheotomy was done right through his neck wound...

> Now ask me about CE399. Please.

What was CE399? I don't think I've run across that before.

> >As for why? I would suggest that LBJ had something to do with it.

The LBJ kinfolk owned the world's largest construction outfit (Brown and Root) that was building runways and dredging harbors in Vietnam.

> conspiracy would necessarily have to involve Oswald, > who was a widely-known fruitcake and would be too unstable to any sane > group of conspirators to piddle with.

He made a damn good "Patsy", (his own words) though.

> >I honor the memories of the brave women and men that we lost over there. > Yet, it also makes me angry that they died for coal, money, and >oil.

AMEN. James in SC (I still like to read DOCUMENTED reports)

>

[Tom Simpson]

At 12:30 PM 8/17/01 -0400, Jimmy James wrote:

>Wow. Read "Crossfire" by Maars. This is a compilation of eyewitness >reports and police investigations, all *extremely* well documented. If you >can read this and still believe the disinformation that is still being >circulated, I would be surprised. This was the damndest cover-up in the >history of the US, and the amazing thing, to me, is that the people accepted >all the crap that the TeeVee told them, and promptly forgot about it. In >fact, MOST people want to forget about it, other than having a sort of >curiosity about it. There is so much garbage and half truths put out that >the real truth has been.....covered up.

Indeed, but the conspiracy industry has done far more to obscure the truth than the Warren Commission could ever have hoped to.

> It's still there, however. And I >was alive when it happened, and I still care, because I think that this was >a real turning point in our history, that is, when people started losing >faith in the US government. That is kinda' what the '60's were about.

I think the '60s was a demographic train wreck: too many young people coming of age in too brief a period. History shows that this is usually not a good thing. Lots of eggs get broken, and often not to good effect.

> I was in military school during the Bay of Pigs fiasco... A feller here >in my hometown bought, as scrap, over 50,000 m-60 machine guns

Given the fact that the M60 had just ben adopted in 1958 and that 50,000 such weapons would probably have exceeded the total production figure for that weapon by May 1961, I find that to be highly unlikely. Yeah, government employees hanging around long enough to draw a pension, that is really suspicious....

>Lies, lies and more lies!! Crossfire is a good place to start reading about >this, and eventually, you may be led to study about the New World Order.

Oh, Jesus. Now we get into the real black helicopter, tinfoil hat stuff...

>NOTHING that happens in politics is accidental.......

Well over half of what happens in most human endeavors is unplanned, particularly in politics.

> >.When Kennedy was shot his head jerked backward and a >When the Zapruder film was returned, the frames had been separated and >re-assembled to show head movement to support the "lone assassin" theory. > > large >portion of his brain came out of his head and landed on the trunk >of >Kennedy's brain has been stolen out of the archives.

As if there weren't any number of other (financial) reasons to boost that stuff from the archives. This stuff has all taken on a life of its own.

>No more bullet >fragments to study! (Ooops--that bullet didn't fragment. It did some >aerobatics and hit Gov. Connelly!)

Not at all. It was CE399 that penetrated Kennedy's neck, the back of the limos front seat, then Connalys chest, then into his wrist and leg. Nothing particular acrobatic about what that bullet did. Numerous fragments from the head shot bullet (which shattered) were recovered from the front of the limo.

> > am >confident in my eyes, my experience, and my beliefs. John F. Kennedy > > was shot from the front. >Evidence suggests that there were nine(9!) shots fired in a diamond pattern. >According to testimony, Oswald was in the canteen drinking a Coke at the >time the shots were fired. A "sabot" was found on the roof of the school >book depository, a shot hit the curb, a shot hit the windshield frame, a >shot hit Gov. Connely, Etc., Etc. President Johnsons' first official acts >were to send more troops into Vietnam and to have the presidential limousine >repaired with a subsequent loss of evidence, such as blood spatter and the >hole in the windshield.

I have yet to read Crossfire, but have read a number items critical of it. The one thing I can tell you is that you can pretty much toss out anything any "earwitnesses" might have heard. Given the highly deceptive nature of the sound signature of highpower rifles ( a fact that properly trained snipers take advantage of ), you really cannot tell by sound where a shot is coming from unless you have had specialized training or experience. Take it from a guy who has had many, many thousands of rifle bullets fly over and past his head: it is hard as hell to tell what is going on by sound alone. Add the reflectivity of the buildings forming a veritable canyon around Dealy Plaza and you have an impossible problem.

> >Therefore, JFK was shot in the head from the front. >He was also shot right through the knot in his tie. The doctor that >examined his wounds at Parklane hospital wrote a book about it, and also >about the CIA (I think) trying to prevent him from doing an examination. >They autopsied him when they got him back to Bethesda(I think) by a group of >people that butchered the remains......A tracheotomy was done right through >his neck wound...

This was performed in Parkland Hospitals ER, and is rather common in trauma cases where the patient is not breathing. The exit wound happened to be precisely where one would cut to perform a tracheotomy. Doctors are generally not inclined to allow patients to die in order to preserve evidence. Something about an oath or some such... Frankly, the conspiracy industry has so muddied the water with mutually contradictory "facts" about what happened (the writing of interesting books on this subject long proven to be a guaranteed money maker for their writers and contributors) that I would not be eager to consider anything said or written by an eye (or ear) witness that was dated past, oh, say, 1965 or so. This is one of the rare cases of a historical event where the passage of time does more to obfuscate than illuminate the facts of the matter. .

> > Now ask me about CE399. Please. >What was CE399? I don't think I've run across that before.

Commission Exhibit 399, aka "the stretcher bullet", aka "the magic bullet". Lots of things are alleged about this bullet that would be dismissed by someone better versed in the field of ballistics.

> > conspiracy would necessarily have to involve Oswald, > > who was a widely-known fruitcake and would be too unstable to any sane > > group of conspirators to piddle with. >He made a damn good "Patsy", (his own words) though.

Yeah, and he was a real credible guy with no vested interest in selling *that* story. Pffft. -Tom

[West]

Wow! This is all so interesting. Maybe we should start a seperate group just to discuss this. wink wink 8^) West [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]