is ims pulling my chain?

[Weaver, Mark]

apologies if you consider this spam, but you may want to provide your opinion to your democratically elected officials, whether or not it is the same as mine or the same as SUWA's. -mark weaver

> -----Original Message----- > From: AlertList@... [mailto:AlertList@...] > Sent: Tuesday, September 26, 2000 8:15 AM > To: AlertList@... > Subject: SAN RAFAEL RIDER! CALL CONGRESS TODAY! > > > ***URGENT RIDER ALERT!!*** ***URGENT RIDER ALERT!!*** > > Rep. Jim Hansen just stuck the San Rafael Not-So-Swell bill into the > Interior Appropriations bill as a last-minute rider, and the > bill could > come to a vote at any time today or tomorrow! > > PLEASE CALL YOUR SENATOR/REPRESENTATIVE RIGHT AWAY if your > State appears on > the list of conferees (below) -- these Congress members must > hear from you > today, Tuesday, as soon as possible! If your State is not on > this list, > please call the White House instead (see item 2). > > Ask them to REMOVE THE SAN RAFAEL NCA RIDER FROM INTERIOR > APPROPRIATIONS > because it fails to protect wilderness in the Swell, lets > ORVs run rampant > in our wild roadless lands, and chops off wilderness with an arbitrary > boundary. This rider must be taken out to protect the > Swell's wilderness > from ORVs! > > INTERIOR APPROPRIATIONS CONFEREES: > (please call all those from your State -- just ask for them > at the Capitol > Switchboard 202-225-3121) > > AL: Rep. Bud Cramer > > AK: Sen. Ted Stevens > > AZ: Rep. Jim Kolbe > > CA: Sen. Dianne Feinstein > > CO: Sen. Ben Nighthorse Campbell > > FL: Rep. C.W. Bill Young > > GA: Rep. Jack Kingston > > MS: Sen. Thad Cochran > > MT: Sen. Conrad Burns > > NC: Rep. Charles Taylor > > ND: Sen. Byron Dorgan > > NH: Sen. Judd Gregg > > NM: Sen. Pete Domenici > Rep. Joe Skeen > > NV: Sen. Harry Reid > > OH: Rep. Ralph Regula (EXTREMELY IMPORTANT) > > PA: Rep. John Murtha > Rep. John Peterson > > SC: Sen. Ernest Holllings > > TN: Rep. Zach Wamp > > UT: Sen. Robert Bennett > > VA: Rep. Jim Moran > > VT: Sen. Patrick Leahy > > WA: Sen. Slade Gorton (VERY IMPORTANT) > Rep. Norm Dicks (VERY IMPORTANT) > Rep. George Nethercutt > > WI: Sen. Herb Kohl > Rep. David Obey (VERY IMPORTANT) > > WV: Sen. Robert Byrd (VERY IMPORTANT) > > To phone your Senator and/or Representative: > > (i) Call the Capitol switchboard at (202) 224-3121. > > (ii) Ask for Senator/Representative YYYY's office. > > (iii) When you reach the receptionist at the office, ask to speak > with the aide who deals with environmental issues. (If > that aide > is not available, you can leave a detailed message with the > receptionist.) > > (iv) Tell the aide that you are a constituent (mention the town > you're from), and ask them to REMOVE THE SAN RAFAEL NCA RIDER > FROM THE INTERIOR APPROPRIATIONS BILL because (1) it fails to > designate any wilderness at all, (2) it leaves the wild > San Rafael > Swell region open to continued destruction by off-road vehicles > AND it "grandfathers in" 10 years of illegal ORV routes, and > (3) it lops off and leaves out important wilderness units in the > San Rafael Swell. > > If you learn anything interesting during your call (whether they have > received other calls on the issue, whether they seem > interested, etc.), > let us know at AlertList@... . > > THANKS for helping fight this rotten bill and Hansen's latest > dirty trick > -- together we can stop the Not-So-Swell bill for the last time! > > +-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+- > +-+-+-+-+ > Unsubscribe@... -- send email here and the address from which > you sent the email will be automatically unsubscribed > SubscribeMe@... -- send email here and the address from which > you sent the email will be automatically subscribed > ListAdmin@... -- if the above two email addresses don't do the > job, or if you need to change your address, send email here > AlertList@... -- send general comments or questions here > +-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+- > +-+-+-+-+ > [166/249] >

[Toby Lampson]

Mark, I'm not looking to start an arguement.....just so ya know.....but I've been kinda perplexed with a couple of your sends like this. Could you help clarify for me? Do you know what SUWA is?.....the Wilderness lobby folks right? Have you ever been to the San Rafael Swell? It just seems quite a juxtaposition that a Dualsport Rider would want to simultaneously lobby for Wilderness. San Rafael is just full of old open Uranium mines anyway? I mean.....why lobby for the 'Wilderness cause' in the very place where the opposite is required for the proliferation of the sport......? Just tryin to get my logic lobe untangled today.......no negative vibes mon.....whatever you believe mon............izzzzcooool by me....... Slide Weaver, Mark wrote:

> apologies if you consider this spam, but you may want to provide your > opinion to your democratically elected officials, whether or not it is the > same as mine or the same as SUWA's. > -mark weaver > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: AlertList@... [mailto:AlertList@...] > > Sent: Tuesday, September 26, 2000 8:15 AM > > To: AlertList@... > > Subject: SAN RAFAEL RIDER! CALL CONGRESS TODAY! > > > > > > ***URGENT RIDER ALERT!!*** ***URGENT RIDER ALERT!!*** > > > > Rep. Jim Hansen just stuck the San Rafael Not-So-Swell bill into the > > Interior Appropriations bill as a last-minute rider, and the > > bill could > > come to a vote at any time today or tomorrow! > > > > PLEASE CALL YOUR SENATOR/REPRESENTATIVE RIGHT AWAY if your > > State appears on > > the list of conferees (below) -- these Congress members must > > hear from you > > today, Tuesday, as soon as possible! If your State is not on > > this list, > > please call the White House instead (see item 2). > > > > Ask them to REMOVE THE SAN RAFAEL NCA RIDER FROM INTERIOR > > APPROPRIATIONS > > because it fails to protect wilderness in the Swell, lets > > ORVs run rampant > > in our wild roadless lands, and chops off wilderness with an arbitrary > > boundary. This rider must be taken out to protect the > > Swell's wilderness > > from ORVs! > > > > INTERIOR APPROPRIATIONS CONFEREES: > > (please call all those from your State -- just ask for them > > at the Capitol > > Switchboard 202-225-3121) > > > > AL: Rep. Bud Cramer > > > > AK: Sen. Ted Stevens > > > > AZ: Rep. Jim Kolbe > > > > CA: Sen. Dianne Feinstein > > > > CO: Sen. Ben Nighthorse Campbell > > > > FL: Rep. C.W. Bill Young > > > > GA: Rep. Jack Kingston > > > > MS: Sen. Thad Cochran > > > > MT: Sen. Conrad Burns > > > > NC: Rep. Charles Taylor > > > > ND: Sen. Byron Dorgan > > > > NH: Sen. Judd Gregg > > > > NM: Sen. Pete Domenici > > Rep. Joe Skeen > > > > NV: Sen. Harry Reid > > > > OH: Rep. Ralph Regula (EXTREMELY IMPORTANT) > > > > PA: Rep. John Murtha > > Rep. John Peterson > > > > SC: Sen. Ernest Holllings > > > > TN: Rep. Zach Wamp > > > > UT: Sen. Robert Bennett > > > > VA: Rep. Jim Moran > > > > VT: Sen. Patrick Leahy > > > > WA: Sen. Slade Gorton (VERY IMPORTANT) > > Rep. Norm Dicks (VERY IMPORTANT) > > Rep. George Nethercutt > > > > WI: Sen. Herb Kohl > > Rep. David Obey (VERY IMPORTANT) > > > > WV: Sen. Robert Byrd (VERY IMPORTANT) > > > > To phone your Senator and/or Representative: > > > > (i) Call the Capitol switchboard at (202) 224-3121. > > > > (ii) Ask for Senator/Representative YYYY's office. > > > > (iii) When you reach the receptionist at the office, ask to speak > > with the aide who deals with environmental issues. (If > > that aide > > is not available, you can leave a detailed message with the > > receptionist.) > > > > (iv) Tell the aide that you are a constituent (mention the town > > you're from), and ask them to REMOVE THE SAN RAFAEL NCA RIDER > > FROM THE INTERIOR APPROPRIATIONS BILL because (1) it fails to > > designate any wilderness at all, (2) it leaves the wild > > San Rafael > > Swell region open to continued destruction by off-road vehicles > > AND it "grandfathers in" 10 years of illegal ORV routes, and > > (3) it lops off and leaves out important wilderness units in the > > San Rafael Swell. > > > > If you learn anything interesting during your call (whether they have > > received other calls on the issue, whether they seem > > interested, etc.), > > let us know at AlertList@... . > > > > THANKS for helping fight this rotten bill and Hansen's latest > > dirty trick > > -- together we can stop the Not-So-Swell bill for the last time! > > > > +-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+- > > +-+-+-+-+ > > Unsubscribe@... -- send email here and the address from which > > you sent the email will be automatically unsubscribed > > SubscribeMe@... -- send email here and the address from which > > you sent the email will be automatically subscribed > > ListAdmin@... -- if the above two email addresses don't do the > > job, or if you need to change your address, send email here > > AlertList@... -- send general comments or questions here > > +-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+- > > +-+-+-+-+ > > [166/249] > > > > Visit the KLR650 archives at > http://www.listquest.com/lq/search.html?ln=klr650 > Support Dual Sport News... dsneditor@... > Let's keep this list SPAM free! > > Visit our site at http://www.egroups.com/group/DSN_klr650 > To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: > DSN_klr650-unsubscribe@egroups.com

[Weaver, Mark]

please take note that my reason for forwarding these alerts to the list (and for subscribing to the suwa list in the first place) is so that we can stay aware of what others are trying to do to limit our access to public lands. i personally think SUWA is pretty extreme and as far as i can tell, their stand on many issues is one that we should generally oppose. my only thought was that if legislators are hearing from real SUWA members, then maybe at the same time, they should be hearing what others also think, to provide an opposing viewpoint, or at least a different one. perhaps i should have made my position clearer, which is to oppose SUWA on this matter, but i'm not sure that's really relevant. i believe that most folks on this list also would oppose them, but i'm not trying to force that belief down anyone's throat, just let people know what's going on so they can voice their own opinions. the SUWA folks are very accommodating in providing all the telephone numbers and names and procedures and everything, but it doesn't say anywhere that you can only use that information to kick US citizens off the land that they own. i have been past the San Rafael swell area, and studied it a little on the map when i was in utah. it doesn't look to me like a place that really needs protection from OHV's. sorry if anyone got the idea that i was supporting SUWA in this effort. like all of us, i have a strong interest in preserving open, public land, but i certainly don't support the narrow and elitist goals of the environmental extremists. -mark weaver

> -----Original Message----- > From: Toby Lampson [mailto:jazranch@...] > Sent: Tuesday, September 26, 2000 11:29 AM > To: Weaver, Mark > Cc: KLRville > Subject: Re: [DSN_klr650] FW: SUWA alert, san rafael swell (nklr) > > > Mark, > I'm not looking to start an arguement.....just so ya > know.....but I've > been kinda > perplexed with a couple of your sends like this. Could you > help clarify for > me? > Do you know what SUWA is?.....the Wilderness lobby folks right? > Have you ever been to the San Rafael Swell? > It just seems quite a juxtaposition that a Dualsport > Rider would want to > simultaneously lobby for Wilderness. San Rafael is just full > of old open > Uranium mines anyway? > > I mean.....why lobby for the 'Wilderness cause' in the very place > where the opposite is required for the proliferation of the > sport......? > Just tryin to get my logic lobe untangled today.......no > negative vibes > mon.....whatever you believe mon............izzzzcooool by me....... > > Slide > > > Weaver, Mark wrote: > > > apologies if you consider this spam, but you may want to > provide your > > opinion to your democratically elected officials, whether > or not it is the > > same as mine or the same as SUWA's. > > -mark weaver > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > > From: AlertList@... [mailto:AlertList@...] > > > Sent: Tuesday, September 26, 2000 8:15 AM > > > To: AlertList@... > > > Subject: SAN RAFAEL RIDER! CALL CONGRESS TODAY! > > > > > > > > > ***URGENT RIDER ALERT!!*** ***URGENT RIDER ALERT!!*** > > > > > > Rep. Jim Hansen just stuck the San Rafael Not-So-Swell > bill into the > > > Interior Appropriations bill as a last-minute rider, and the > > > bill could > > > come to a vote at any time today or tomorrow! > > > > > > PLEASE CALL YOUR SENATOR/REPRESENTATIVE RIGHT AWAY if your > > > State appears on > > > the list of conferees (below) -- these Congress members must > > > hear from you > > > today, Tuesday, as soon as possible! If your State is not on > > > this list, > > > please call the White House instead (see item 2). > > > > > > Ask them to REMOVE THE SAN RAFAEL NCA RIDER FROM INTERIOR > > > APPROPRIATIONS > > > because it fails to protect wilderness in the Swell, lets > > > ORVs run rampant > > > in our wild roadless lands, and chops off wilderness with > an arbitrary > > > boundary. This rider must be taken out to protect the > > > Swell's wilderness > > > from ORVs! > > > > > > INTERIOR APPROPRIATIONS CONFEREES: > > > (please call all those from your State -- just ask for them > > > at the Capitol > > > Switchboard 202-225-3121) > > > > > > AL: Rep. Bud Cramer > > > > > > AK: Sen. Ted Stevens > > > > > > AZ: Rep. Jim Kolbe > > > > > > CA: Sen. Dianne Feinstein > > > > > > CO: Sen. Ben Nighthorse Campbell > > > > > > FL: Rep. C.W. Bill Young > > > > > > GA: Rep. Jack Kingston > > > > > > MS: Sen. Thad Cochran > > > > > > MT: Sen. Conrad Burns > > > > > > NC: Rep. Charles Taylor > > > > > > ND: Sen. Byron Dorgan > > > > > > NH: Sen. Judd Gregg > > > > > > NM: Sen. Pete Domenici > > > Rep. Joe Skeen > > > > > > NV: Sen. Harry Reid > > > > > > OH: Rep. Ralph Regula (EXTREMELY IMPORTANT) > > > > > > PA: Rep. John Murtha > > > Rep. John Peterson > > > > > > SC: Sen. Ernest Holllings > > > > > > TN: Rep. Zach Wamp > > > > > > UT: Sen. Robert Bennett > > > > > > VA: Rep. Jim Moran > > > > > > VT: Sen. Patrick Leahy > > > > > > WA: Sen. Slade Gorton (VERY IMPORTANT) > > > Rep. Norm Dicks (VERY IMPORTANT) > > > Rep. George Nethercutt > > > > > > WI: Sen. Herb Kohl > > > Rep. David Obey (VERY IMPORTANT) > > > > > > WV: Sen. Robert Byrd (VERY IMPORTANT) > > > > > > To phone your Senator and/or Representative: > > > > > > (i) Call the Capitol switchboard at (202) 224-3121. > > > > > > (ii) Ask for Senator/Representative YYYY's office. > > > > > > (iii) When you reach the receptionist at the office, > ask to speak > > > with the aide who deals with environmental issues. (If > > > that aide > > > is not available, you can leave a detailed message with the > > > receptionist.) > > > > > > (iv) Tell the aide that you are a constituent > (mention the town > > > you're from), and ask them to REMOVE THE SAN RAFAEL NCA RIDER > > > FROM THE INTERIOR APPROPRIATIONS BILL because (1) it fails to > > > designate any wilderness at all, (2) it leaves the wild > > > San Rafael > > > Swell region open to continued destruction by > off-road vehicles > > > AND it "grandfathers in" 10 years of illegal ORV routes, and > > > (3) it lops off and leaves out important wilderness > units in the > > > San Rafael Swell. > > > > > > If you learn anything interesting during your call > (whether they have > > > received other calls on the issue, whether they seem > > > interested, etc.), > > > let us know at AlertList@... . > > > > > > THANKS for helping fight this rotten bill and Hansen's latest > > > dirty trick > > > -- together we can stop the Not-So-Swell bill for the last time! > > > > > > +-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+- > > > +-+-+-+-+ > > > Unsubscribe@... -- send email here and the address from which > > > you sent the email will be automatically unsubscribed > > > SubscribeMe@... -- send email here and the address from which > > > you sent the email will be automatically subscribed > > > ListAdmin@... -- if the above two email addresses > don't do the > > > job, or if you need to change your address, send email here > > > AlertList@... -- send general comments or questions here > > > +-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+- > > > +-+-+-+-+ > > > [166/249] > > > > > > > Visit the KLR650 archives at > > http://www.listquest.com/lq/search.html?ln=klr650 > > Support Dual Sport News... dsneditor@... > > Let's keep this list SPAM free! > > > > Visit our site at http://www.egroups.com/group/DSN_klr650 > > To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: > > DSN_klr650-unsubscribe@egroups.com > > >

[bigmotomama@aol.com]

So we are not supposed to discuss the benefits of wilderness areas on this list and just assume we all want to rip up what little land we have left? Motomama

--- In DSN_klr650@egroups.com, Toby Lampson wrote: > Do you know what SUWA is?.....the Wilderness lobby folks right? > Have you ever been to the San Rafael Swell? > It just seems quite a juxtaposition that a Dualsport Rider would want to > simultaneously lobby for Wilderness. San Rafael is just full of old open > Uranium mines anyway? > > I mean.....why lobby for the 'Wilderness cause' in the very place > where the opposite is required for the proliferation of the sport......?>>

[Weaver, Mark]

> So we are not supposed to discuss the benefits of wilderness areas on > this list and just assume we all want to rip up what little land we > have left? > > Motomama >

argh!!! stop it!! that's exactly why i didn't put forth my own opinion when forwarding that alert. no one is going to convince anyone else to change their minds on this issue, so let's save our breath. if it's important to you, make your voice heard to your legislators, on whichever side of the fence you fall. mw

[Jim Jackson]

Mark, FYI, I took the original post for it's intended purpose; to inform folks on the list of issues that are potentially relevent to them. Thanks for that. And since some people tend to hold their opinions as absolutes thanks also for not inserting your own opinions. Appreciate you keeping us in the loop. Jim Jackson II A13 "Gonzo" South Carolina P.S. There is honor in changing your mind if you find you are wrong. There is no honor in changing your mind if you are right.

> >argh!!! stop it!! that's exactly why i didn't put forth my own opinion when >forwarding that alert. no one is going to convince anyone else to change >their minds on this issue, so let's save our breath. if it's important to >you, make your voice heard to your legislators, on whichever side of the >fence you fall. >mw >

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[Tom Myers]

> > So we are not supposed to discuss the benefits of wilderness areas on > > this list and just assume we all want to rip up what little land we > > have left?

....a common response from city-dwellers whose entire understanding of land use issues comes from pamphlets and the internet. The land we have left is not that little. I recommend you get out of the city sometime and see the land before you lock it up. What's little is what's going to be left. Tom

[bigmotomama@aol.com]

Bold statement from someone who doesn't even know me... but I'll let that one slide. My point is this. If this land issue is important to some of the KLR listers, maybe a seperate list should be set up for the discussion of such issues. Then when something is posted to it, pro or con, a brief message is posted to this list saying that a new entry has been posted to the Environment list and anyone interested can go there and pound their chest and rant and rave. But don't post some anti-environmental propaganda to this list and then expect everyone to sit on their hands and not respond. Some of you may be sheep, but I'm not. Motomama

--- In DSN_klr650@egroups.com, Tom Myers wrote: > > ....a common response from city-dwellers whose entire understanding > of land use issues comes from pamphlets and the internet. The land > we have left is not that little. I recommend you get out of the city > sometime and see the land before you lock it up. What's little is > what's going to be left. > > > Tom

[Rich Kickbush]

bigmotomama@... wrote:

> My point is this. If this land issue is important to some of the KLR > listers, maybe a seperate list should be set up for > the discussion of such issues. Then when something is posted to it, > pro or con, a brief message is posted to this list saying that a new > entry has been posted to the Environment list and anyone interested > can go there and pound their chest and rant and rave. >

I've got to support this. At the risk of becoming complex, what about another acronym to use for land issue posts. NKLR-LI? That way listers have the option of setting up their mail filters accordingly. The problem is, this is in international list - to those outside the US, these land issues mean virtually nothing, and are just unwanted mail, like spam. To many dual-sporters in the US, this is a huge issue, and threatens their favourite pastime, and possibly their freedoms as they see it...I can easily see why someone would want to use this forum to pass on information about this issue, it probably applies to a good percentage of the listers. Another subject tag would allow this to work, without bugging those who don't have anything to do with it. FWIW, I think Mark did his best to pass on his info without stepping on toes... but its still irrelevant to me. And yeah, I know about Vic's mc-politics list.. Whaddya thunk? Rich (trying to play Solomon)

[Tom Myers]

>bigmotomama@... wrote: > > > My point is this. If this land issue is important to some of the KLR >> listers, maybe a seperate list should be set up for >> the discussion of such issues. Then when something is posted to it, >> pro or con, a brief message is posted to this list saying that a new >> entry has been posted to the Environment list and anyone interested > > can go there and pound their chest and rant and rave. > > >Rich asks: >Whaddya thunk?

Hi Rich, I've thunk this several times, watching this issue sociologically. Lists are fun for people-watching. Observation. It's OK to reply to a controversial post, (getting your opinion posted, of course) as long as you divert the attention away from yourself. And while you're in the safety zone, you might as well puff yourself up by including a couple put-downs! But the important thing is, when you're done, tell them to "take it off-list" because you're OK!! Then pat yourself on the back! Tom