stripped oil drain hole part 3...

[Michael Silverstein]

To put it in a historical context, I believe this originated in the early 80's when Japan was in on economic upswing while the U.S. was still in an economic trough that began in the late 70's. U.S. auto manufacturers were taking a beating while an increasing number of Japanese vehicles appeared on the roads. Japanese firms were buying prime U.S. landmarks like Rockefeller Center and it appeared to many that Japan would soon dominate the world economically. I think animosity toward Japanese bikes was mostly a reaction to what was at the time perceived as a serious threat to many Americans' economic well being. This has carried forward to this day despite the fact that Japan's economic bubble has long since burst. Mike A18

> -----Original Message----- > From: DSN_KLR650@yahoogroups.com > [mailto:DSN_KLR650@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Ron Criswell > Sent: Thursday, August 25, 2005 12:11 PM > To: Rick McCauley > Cc: dsn_klr650@yahoogroups.com > Subject: Re: [DSN_KLR650] Re: New generation of KLR's > > > I have never understood the animosity a lot of Harley guys > have toward > Japanese bikes. They don't seem to have the same animosity toward > European bikes for some reason.

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[scott quillen]

Mike, I agree with all of what you said except about Japan's economic bubble bursting... Since when did Japan's economic bubble burst??? I guessed I missed that one... I thought they were still doing remarkably well... Scott Michael Silverstein wrote: To put it in a historical context, I believe this originated in the early 80's when Japan was in on economic upswing while the U.S. was still in an economic trough that began in the late 70's. U.S. auto manufacturers were taking a beating while an increasing number of Japanese vehicles appeared on the roads. Japanese firms were buying prime U.S. landmarks like Rockefeller Center and it appeared to many that Japan would soon dominate the world economically. I think animosity toward Japanese bikes was mostly a reaction to what was at the time perceived as a serious threat to many Americans' economic well being. This has carried forward to this day despite the fact that Japan's economic bubble has long since burst. Mike A18

> -----Original Message----- > From: DSN_KLR650@yahoogroups.com > [mailto:DSN_KLR650@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Ron Criswell > Sent: Thursday, August 25, 2005 12:11 PM > To: Rick McCauley > Cc: dsn_klr650@yahoogroups.com > Subject: Re: [DSN_KLR650] Re: New generation of KLR's > > > I have never understood the animosity a lot of Harley guys > have toward > Japanese bikes. They don't seem to have the same animosity toward > European bikes for some reason.

-- No virus found in this outgoing message. Checked by AVG Anti-Virus. Version: 7.0.344 / Virus Database: 267.10.15/81 - Release Date: 8/24/2005 Archive Quicksearch at: http://www.angelfire.com/ut/moab/klr650_data_search.html List sponsored by Dual Sport News at: www.dualsportnews.com List FAQ courtesy of Chris Krok at: www.bigcee.com/klr650faq.html Yahoo! Groups Links __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around http://mail.yahoo.com [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

[WILLAM GILMORE]

One of the things about motorcycling I appreciate most is the wide varieity of people, equipment and styles, yet, we seem to all be drawn together out of our passion for the sport and the feeling it gives us. It's like there's a universe of bikers made-up of lots of little tribes or clans that work hard at making their's stand out and be different from all the others - from the video game-like crotch rockets with backpacks, to boss hogs with their ol'lady's pierced hooters flapping in the breeze. It's tribal, pure and simple. What's really interesting is that we tend to carve-out our territory based on what -- our personalities and preferences? We then choose the machine that allows us to pursue what ever those preferences are. It's almost Darwinian - cruisers and tourers are at home on the expressways, Z's and X's keep pretty much to city streets and beltlines while we, on our two-wheeled tractors feel at home on the dirt and asphalt fringes of cities and towns. Contrary to popular belief, we as KLR (dualsport) owners might be the most independant, free spirits in the whole motorcyle world everyone seems to have a place that marketing experts must think a lot about when they design and advertise a particular kind of motorcycle. Bikers, like most other consumers must have profiles that describes their educational levels, choice of conumer brands in auto's and even the cereal we eat. Just rambling Will - A12 scott quillen wrote: Yep...it's not easy to do...with the age-old stereotypes that exist. I've seen/met some of those Harley riders that reinforce the stereotypes, as well as observed posts from some of the same KLR and BMW riders that also reinforce negative stereotypes about them. It's hard to look past them and realize that all riders of a particular make/model are not like that. I don't appreciate being lumped into that "Harley" stereotype...but if someone is ignorant enough to lump me in with them, then I'm not gonna sweat it too much...it just makes me realize I don't want to meet/associate with that particular person because they have nothing to offer anyway except a closed mind, which I don't care to be around. Life is too short to be associated with idiots... ;^) NO offense intended to ANYONE...if you fall into the above described group, you know who you are... Regards, Scott Rick McCauley wrote: I agree fully. My dislike for Harleys is due to the predjudice behavior of others. Not the most mature behavior on my part. We (myself included) need to stop judging the book by it's cover. Rick A17 scott quillen wrote: the "mine is better because it's what I have" mentality. Personally, I don't belong to any such clique except the one that says ALL motorcycles are COOL! I like Harleys, Hondas, Yahamas, Suzukis, Kawasakis...the list goes on and on... Regards, Scott --------------------------------- Start your day with Yahoo! - make it your home page [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] Archive Quicksearch at: http://www.angelfire.com/ut/moab/klr650_data_search.html List sponsored by Dual Sport News at: www.dualsportnews.com List FAQ courtesy of Chris Krok at: www.bigcee.com/klr650faq.html Yahoo! Groups Links __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around http://mail.yahoo.com [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] Archive Quicksearch at: http://www.angelfire.com/ut/moab/klr650_data_search.html List sponsored by Dual Sport News at: www.dualsportnews.com List FAQ courtesy of Chris Krok at: www.bigcee.com/klr650faq.html Yahoo! Groups Links [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

[scott quillen]

Will, I believe your "rambling" sums it all up quite well! Regards, Scott WILLAM GILMORE wrote: One of the things about motorcycling I appreciate most is the wide varieity of people, equipment and styles, yet, we seem to all be drawn together out of our passion for the sport and the feeling it gives us. It's like there's a universe of bikers made-up of lots of little tribes or clans that work hard at making their's stand out and be different from all the others - from the video game-like crotch rockets with backpacks, to boss hogs with their ol'lady's pierced hooters flapping in the breeze. It's tribal, pure and simple. What's really interesting is that we tend to carve-out our territory based on what -- our personalities and preferences? We then choose the machine that allows us to pursue what ever those preferences are. It's almost Darwinian - cruisers and tourers are at home on the expressways, Z's and X's keep pretty much to city streets and beltlines while we, on our two-wheeled tractors feel at home on the dirt and asphalt fringes of cities and towns. Contrary to popular belief, we as KLR (dualsport) owners might be the most independant, free spirits in the whole motorcyle world everyone seems to have a place that marketing experts must think a lot about when they design and advertise a particular kind of motorcycle. Bikers, like most other consumers must have profiles that describes their educational levels, choice of conumer brands in auto's and even the cereal we eat. Just rambling Will - A12 scott quillen wrote: Yep...it's not easy to do...with the age-old stereotypes that exist. I've seen/met some of those Harley riders that reinforce the stereotypes, as well as observed posts from some of the same KLR and BMW riders that also reinforce negative stereotypes about them. It's hard to look past them and realize that all riders of a particular make/model are not like that. I don't appreciate being lumped into that "Harley" stereotype...but if someone is ignorant enough to lump me in with them, then I'm not gonna sweat it too much...it just makes me realize I don't want to meet/associate with that particular person because they have nothing to offer anyway except a closed mind, which I don't care to be around. Life is too short to be associated with idiots... ;^) NO offense intended to ANYONE...if you fall into the above described group, you know who you are... Regards, Scott Rick McCauley wrote: I agree fully. My dislike for Harleys is due to the predjudice behavior of others. Not the most mature behavior on my part. We (myself included) need to stop judging the book by it's cover. Rick A17 scott quillen wrote: the "mine is better because it's what I have" mentality. Personally, I don't belong to any such clique except the one that says ALL motorcycles are COOL! I like Harleys, Hondas, Yahamas, Suzukis, Kawasakis...the list goes on and on... Regards, Scott --------------------------------- Start your day with Yahoo! - make it your home page [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] Archive Quicksearch at: http://www.angelfire.com/ut/moab/klr650_data_search.html List sponsored by Dual Sport News at: www.dualsportnews.com List FAQ courtesy of Chris Krok at: www.bigcee.com/klr650faq.html Yahoo! Groups Links __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around http://mail.yahoo.com [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] Archive Quicksearch at: http://www.angelfire.com/ut/moab/klr650_data_search.html List sponsored by Dual Sport News at: www.dualsportnews.com List FAQ courtesy of Chris Krok at: www.bigcee.com/klr650faq.html Yahoo! Groups Links [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] Archive Quicksearch at: http://www.angelfire.com/ut/moab/klr650_data_search.html List sponsored by Dual Sport News at: www.dualsportnews.com List FAQ courtesy of Chris Krok at: www.bigcee.com/klr650faq.html Yahoo! Groups Links __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around http://mail.yahoo.com [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

[Michael Silverstein]

Just google: japan + "economic bubble" + burst or skim the following links for starters: HYPERLINK "http://www.finetuning.com/articles/2001-japans-economic-outlook-improvi ng.html"http://www.finetuning.com/articles/2001-japans-economic-outlook- improving.html HYPERLINK "http://oregonstate.edu/Dept/IIFET/2000/abstracts/amano.html"http://oreg onstate.edu/Dept/IIFET/2000/abstracts/amano.html HYPERLINK "http://www.umich.edu/~iinet/journal/vol6no3/suleski.htm"http://www.umic h.edu/~iinet/journal/vol6no3/suleski.htm Mike A18 -----Original Message----- From: scott quillen [mailto:scottq60@...] Sent: Thursday, August 25, 2005 10:46 AM To: Michael Silverstein; 'Ron Criswell'; 'Rick McCauley' Cc: dsn_klr650@yahoogroups.com Subject: RE: [DSN_KLR650] Re: New generation of KLR's Mike, I agree with all of what you said except about Japan's economic bubble bursting... Since when did Japan's economic bubble burst??? I guessed I missed that one... I thought they were still doing remarkably well... Scott Michael Silverstein wrote: To put it in a historical context, I believe this originated in the early 80's when Japan was in on economic upswing while the U.S. was still in an economic trough that began in the late 70's. U.S. auto manufacturers were taking a beating while an increasing number of Japanese vehicles appeared on the roads. Japanese firms were buying prime U.S. landmarks like Rockefeller Center and it appeared to many that Japan would soon dominate the world economically. I think animosity toward Japanese bikes was mostly a reaction to what was at the time perceived as a serious threat to many Americans' economic well being. This has carried forward to this day despite the fact that Japan's economic bubble has long since burst. Mike A18

> -----Original Message----- > From: DSN_KLR650@yahoogroups.com > [mailto:DSN_KLR650@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Ron Criswell > Sent: Thursday, August 25, 2005 12:11 PM > To: Rick McCauley > Cc: dsn_klr650@yahoogroups.com > Subject: Re: [DSN_KLR650] Re: New generation of KLR's > > > I have never understood the animosity a lot of Harley guys > have toward > Japanese bikes. They don't seem to have the same animosity toward > European bikes for some reason.

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[scott quillen]

Wasn't aware of all that...thanks for the links! Scott Michael Silverstein wrote: Just google: japan + "economic bubble" + burst or skim the following links for starters: http://www.finetuning.com/articles/2001-japans-economic-outlook-improving.html http://oregonstate.edu/Dept/IIFET/2000/abstracts/amano.html http://www.umich.edu/~iinet/journal/vol6no3/suleski.htm Mike A18 -----Original Message----- From: scott quillen [mailto:scottq60@...] Sent: Thursday, August 25, 2005 10:46 AM To: Michael Silverstein; 'Ron Criswell'; 'Rick McCauley' Cc: dsn_klr650@yahoogroups.com Subject: RE: [DSN_KLR650] Re: New generation of KLR's Mike, I agree with all of what you said except about Japan's economic bubble bursting... Since when did Japan's economic bubble burst??? I guessed I missed that one... I thought they were still doing remarkably well... Scott Michael Silverstein wrote: To put it in a historical context, I believe this originated in the early 80's when Japan was in on economic upswing while the U.S. was still in an economic trough that began in the late 70's. U.S. auto manufacturers were taking a beating while an increasing number of Japanese vehicles appeared on the roads. Japanese firms were buying prime U.S. landmarks like Rockefeller Center and it appeared to many that Japan would soon dominate the world economically. I think animosity toward Japanese bikes was mostly a reaction to what was at the time perceived as a serious threat to many Americans' economic well being. This has carried forward to this day despite the fact that Japan's economic bubble has long since burst. Mike A18

> -----Original Message----- > From: DSN_KLR650@yahoogroups.com > [mailto:DSN_KLR650@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Ron Criswell > Sent: Thursday, August 25, 2005 12:11 PM > To: Rick McCauley > Cc: dsn_klr650@yahoogroups.com > Subject: Re: [DSN_KLR650] Re: New generation of KLR's > > > I have never understood the animosity a lot of Harley guys > have toward > Japanese bikes. They don't seem to have the same animosity toward > European bikes for some reason.

-- No virus found in this outgoing message. Checked by AVG Anti-Virus. Version: 7.0.344 / Virus Database: 267.10.15/81 - Release Date: 8/24/2005 Archive Quicksearch at: http://www.angelfire.com/ut/moab/klr650_data_search.html List sponsored by Dual Sport News at: www.dualsportnews.com List FAQ courtesy of Chris Krok at: www.bigcee.com/klr650faq.html Yahoo! Groups Links __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around http://mail.yahoo.com -- No virus found in this incoming message. Checked by AVG Anti-Virus. Version: 7.0.344 / Virus Database: 267.10.15/81 - Release Date: 8/24/2005 -- No virus found in this outgoing message. Checked by AVG Anti-Virus. Version: 7.0.344 / Virus Database: 267.10.15/81 - Release Date: 8/24/2005 --------------------------------- Start your day with Yahoo! - make it your home page [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

[Rick McCauley]

This comes from my listening to converstations between the negative Harley types I have been exposed to.. Most of their hatred for Japanes bikes came from the sudden popularity, better reliabilty, and most of all, superior performance. They would not concede to that superiority. Actually they denied it every chance they got. They claimed they were cheaply made junk. They also tried to sway people based on their patriotism. I was once accused of supporting the people that were shooting at my Grandfathers because I had a Jap bike. This same guy had a BMW in his garage!! I reminded him that the Germans were shooting at them too. Per predjudice and lack of logic. Rick A17 Ron Criswell wrote: I have never understood the animosity a lot of Harley guys have toward Japanese bikes. They don't seem to have the same animosity toward European bikes for some reason. Racism ? Maybe? --------------------------------- Start your day with Yahoo! - make it your home page [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

[scott quillen]

Yep...same situation I ran into last week - the guy I had the conversation with (the one that accused me of being a traitor) is retired GM (UAW). He worked with my Uncle at Fisher Body...yet that didn't stop him from owning all those Hondas prior to his Harleys. I guess he just finally saw the light ;^) My uncle also rides a Goldwing, as did I. I'd LOVE to have one of the new 1800 Wings.... There is very little logic to their argument...it's 95% emotional. Scott Rick McCauley wrote: This comes from my listening to converstations between the negative Harley types I have been exposed to.. Most of their hatred for Japanes bikes came from the sudden popularity, better reliabilty, and most of all, superior performance. They would not concede to that superiority. Actually they denied it every chance they got. They claimed they were cheaply made junk. They also tried to sway people based on their patriotism. I was once accused of supporting the people that were shooting at my Grandfathers because I had a Jap bike. This same guy had a BMW in his garage!! I reminded him that the Germans were shooting at them too. Per predjudice and lack of logic. Rick A17 Ron Criswell wrote: I have never understood the animosity a lot of Harley guys have toward Japanese bikes. They don't seem to have the same animosity toward European bikes for some reason. Racism ? Maybe? --------------------------------- Start your day with Yahoo! - make it your home page [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] Archive Quicksearch at: http://www.angelfire.com/ut/moab/klr650_data_search.html List sponsored by Dual Sport News at: www.dualsportnews.com List FAQ courtesy of Chris Krok at: www.bigcee.com/klr650faq.html Yahoo! Groups Links --------------------------------- Start your day with Yahoo! - make it your home page [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

[Eric L. Green]

On Thu, 25 Aug 2005, scott quillen wrote:

> yeah...they have similar appeal because they're BOTH MOTORCYCLES!

Well, and they're both a) crude, b) simple, and c) mediocre. The only difference on part (c) is that the KLR is mediocre at doing a lot more things than a Harley, such as riding the beast off-road. Let's face it, our beloved Thumper just isn't very good at doing anything at all, it's the wide variety of things that it'll do that is its biggest appeal. On-road use? Skinny front tire, soggy suspension, and iffy brakes tend to limit you there, as well as the asthmatic engine. Off-road use? Too heavy, steering too slow, gearing all wrong. On paper, the KLR looks like one of the most pathetic dual-sport bikes ever invented. On paper. Sort of like a Harley, there.

> On the other hand I find it fascinating (and very unexpected) that there > appears to be a significant number of experienced riders who have an > affinity for both the KLR AND the HD bikes. There are clearly > differences (configuration and price being the most obvious), but are > there some qualities that both of these bikes share that have similar > appeal?

[Mike Frey]

Eric L. Green wrote:

>On paper, the KLR looks like one of >the most pathetic dual-sport bikes ever invented. > >On paper. >

Yep. It sure does. However, tens of thousands of owners worldwide have elevated the KLR-650 to cult status, indicating that they (we) have discovered something that the rest have not (...yet). I bought my KLR without ever having sat my butt one one, let alone ride it. I haven't been disappointed.