cyclebrakes oversized rotor: (was: newbie upgrade questions ...)

[Steve Green]

Fred, First let me say I always have been extremely satisfied with everything I have bought from Arrowhead Motorsports (and other businesses on this LIST) whether it cost me less or not. Why is this? Because of your knowledge of what works, fits and is of good quality for my specific needs. Not to mention you get it shipped asap for a fair price, no disguised addittional charges, tell the truth if you do or do not have it in stock, and just generally provide a great service in your area of expertise. Thank you! I never assumed (as you said) that you are getting the same price as the big guys. THAT price difference makes the playing field uneven. Who's fault is that? Not the customer's, not yours (unless you are not doing your homework), but the people who supply you. Sure volume purchasers get better prices - this hurts the little guy. If the Big Guy discounts are too steep the little guy can't compete. This seems short sighted cause the Little Guy is often the grass- roots of the business. Maybe it is fair, maybe not. I am not making judgement just observations. Ask the manufacturers and distributors they call the shots here. As for "customer's having a defensive posture" , if you consider defending your hard earned money a "defensive posture" I guess I agree with you. Then again this "defensive posture" may come from the "offensive" (and I only use this word in juxtapositon to defensive, not in a derogatory way so please all of you don't go ballistic) nature of comments made in reference to a customer who tried on the helmets and then bought elsewhere. Comments implying he'll get a "raw deal next time" and "what comes around goes around". We are all human and this can become an emotional issue for the dealer and client leading to these feelings. Clients DO shop for price amongst other things. It is not a crime to look for the best price. It is a totally normal thing to do. Trying on a helmet one place and buying elsewhere is probably not the nicest practice. A practice that as Stu put it "none of us would do" IS going to happen. My point is: If the suppliers are charging small dealers excessively more for the same helmet that is not fair, or if the helmet is just being excessively marked up by the "small" dealer then competition dictates who gets the business. I do understand your main point - that all dealers do not pay the same. Maybe an organization for the small dealer is in order so that you can buy at competitive prices and have a stronger voice in the industry. In my humble opinion based on what you said, the industry suppliers are giving the raw deal to the small dealer. How much less percentage wise is fair to large volume purchasers compared to small volume purchasers? Why can't you get helmets and tires for close to the same price (10-15% higher) as the mail order houses? This is the question. Maybe Arai is actually doing all the dealers a favor with their new policies. It is not helping us consumers though with there already very high prices. Questions like this go on and on and have become the focus of our modern day trade agreemnets and social problems. It comes right down to the benefits of a free market, price controls, free trade, protectionism, trade barriers, custom duties or lack of, etc etc. The Dealers and Motorcycle Proffessionals on this List are successfull for an indispensible service they provide. They may not be cheapest on mass produced merchandise, but they provide a unique service whether it be through unique products, timely service, high product expertise, or friendly personal relationships - things that the mail order houses do not supply. But when it comes to the everyday items like tires and helmets it is hard for me to justify spending 70% more for the same exact item even from my mother. Respectfully, Steve G

--- In DSN_klr650@yahoogroups.com, "Fred Hink" wrote: > Steve, > > Your perception that all dealers pay the same price for all items is wrong. > Do you ever wonder why Wal-Mart has their prices so low? It is because they > buy their products in mass quantities. My costs are more than those Mega > Mail Order Houses. They buy their merchandise much cheaper than I can > because they sell much more than I do. Most mail order places can sell > tires cheaper than my cost. Cutting retail prices will only kill the small > dealers or enthusiasts trying to make a living. Someday you are going to > need that shop while traveling around on a Sunday. Is the Mega Mail Order > House going to open their shop to help a wayward traveler, I think not. > > The biggest problem I see with some customers is, they have a defensive > posture already before they even say their first words. Having the idea > that the merchant / customer relationship has to be confrontational, usually > never benefits anyone. Relax, enjoy your stay at the bike shop and I think > you will find a wealth of information, lots of goodies to look over and all > the free advice you will need. Give the shop owner his fair profit as we > like what we are doing but we don't do it for our health. > > I respect your thoughtfulness on this subject but I just wanted to point out > that all dealers are not on a level playing surface. > > Fred > http://www.arrowheadmotorsports.com > http://www.angelfire.com/ut/moab/cmc.html > > > > > > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Steve Green" > To: DSN_klr650@yahoogroups.com> > Sent: Wednesday, August 20, 2003 11:25 PM > Subject: [DSN_klr650] Re: Arai Sales nklr > > > > Gino, > > > > I realize you are coming from a "Dealer's" point of view and I can > > appreciate that the behaviour you describe may be unfair to you the > > store owner. > > > > Situations like the one described by Stu and you would not happened > > if very high mark-ups were not placed on the helmets and other items > > (i.e. tires) at dealers. > > > > In the past did mail order houses pay less for Arai helmets? If so, > > who's fault was that?... Arai's fault that's who's. > > And if everyone pays the same wholesale price why can't the local > > dealer be satisfied with a marginally higher but not exorbitantly > > higher price than the mail orders places? > > > > Many customers are going to behave how you described, when the same > > Arai at the dealer for $529 is available mail order for $299.00 - 77% > > higher price. > > Or maybe a TKC 80 rear that costs $90 mail order and is $155 at the > > local store - 72% more here in Denver. > > > > Maybe the customer would have bought the helmet from you if the price > > was closer to the mail order price. Doesn't have to be equal mind you > > just closer in price. > > > > Saying - "what comes around goes around" and giving a "raw deal" the > > next time will not make that customer happy, and only alienate him > > more. Not good business practice even if he did try helmets on in > > your store and bought it mail order. > > > > Maybe it would be better to say to the customer: "next time show me > > what you can get it for mail order and let me see the kind of deal I > > can give before ordering". > > > > If you want more customers/business you have to give: > > competitive prices > > good quality > > good service > > good attitude > > > > When the same products are available from many sources, price, > > convenience and service become the main factors. The quality is a > > constant. Equal helmets or tires are all the same mail order or local > > store bought. > > > > Customers will pay some premium to obtain the product immediately at > > a local store that gives good friendly service. However there is a > > limit to how much more they will pay for that. Is it necessary to > > charge 30%, 40%, 50% or even more over the mail order places? > > > > My aim here is not to upset you as a dealer, but to explain a few > > points I think your reply to Stu's mail-order-helmet-scenario > > overlooked. > > > > Respectfully, Steve G > >

[ron criswell]

Good to hear this since I have the MAP rotor (thanks to you Fred). It stops muy better. Criswell Fred Hink wrote:

> It wasn't the MAP kit that had the faulty mounting bracket. It was Braking > Systems. They don't make this kit any longer and that is why there were > some mounting brackets made by a lister to replace those that were cracked. > The MAP oversized rotor is very similar to the CycleBrakes rotor. They look > pretty much identical in fact. I have had both in my shop. > > I never heard of any cracking problems with either the MAP or CycleBrakes > mounting brackets. The only problem I ever heard with the MAP bracket was > when the late Eric J. stripped out some threads on his but then someone > later claimed he might have been "Ham Fisted" with the tightening of the > bolts. > > Fred > http://www.arrowheadmotorsports.com > http://www.angelfire.com/ut/moab/cmc.html > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Tony Jones" >

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