I replaced my worn out B5s with Waymaster 450x19 this past Spring, on a set of new wheels from Bob Grunau. I balanced them using an old hub on a cone, turned out ok without too many weights. Not bad tire but hard to know if the lack of lateral grip compared to the B5s is because of tire construction or the fact I m now riding on tread.... they ve been secure on wet roads and after several hundred mikes this season are not showing undue wear. This recent tire thread had me looking again, I see the Waymaster 475/500x19 has outer dimensions much like the Dunlop, and a similar appearance. And a good deal fewer $$.
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On Oct 1, 2018, at 2:41 PM, Steve S
mail@mgnuts.com [mg-tabc] mg-tabc-noreply@yahoogroups.com> wrote:
The inner tubes (Moss Classic Gold) have been in the car through three sets of tires so they don't appear to be contributing to any balance issues. Based on emails on this topic on and off list) it seems like Commander and Excelsior (and apparently now Ensign) have also had some balance problems. Apparently the Dunlop version was the only well balanced B5-type tire in recent years.
- Steve Simmons, TC8975
On 10/1/2018 6:02 AM, Rick wrote:
Great info Steve, thanks for sharing all of it. Is it possible the inner tubes are having an impact in this? On September 30, 2018 at 8:54 PM "Steve S
mail@mgnuts.com [mg-tabc]"
mg-tabc-noreply@yahoogroups.com wrote:
I guess I could have given more detail had I known everyone would be interested in the balance aspect. The weights are standard 1/4 oz stick-ons, so I'm using about 3 oz +/- per wheel. With a wheel / tire weight of about 37.5 pounds, the industry standards allow around 6 oz maximum so I'm well within their limits. But compared to the Dunlop which were nearly perfect without any weights, it's disappointing to have to stack so much metal on the wheel. I'll may use lead wire on the spokes instead so it at least looks period correct. Both front wheels are equally imbalanced so although I haven't checked the rears yet, I suspect they are the same.
Also as a followup, I rotated one of the tires at 90-degree increments and tested drop time from 120-degrees (inflated). No matter what position the tire was mounted, drop times were within 1/2 second, so it's fair to say that the tire is the overwhelming percentage of the imbalance. As a side note, the blue mark on the bead seems to be the heavy spot. Ordinarily blue is not used for this reason but maybe it's different in the UK?
In any case, the tires are performing very well and I'm happy with them overall. I hope this info has helped someone.
- Steve Simmons, TC8975
On 9/30/2018 8:17 AM, Joe Curto wrote:
What are the chances of complaining to the maker/dealer you did not say how much the strip of 12 weights weigh but if they at re 1 OZ you are close to 3/4 of a pound , thats a lot were all 4 tires like that?
Joe Curto 718-762-7878
www.joecurto.com
-----Original Message-----
From: Steve S
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To: mg-tabc
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Sent: Sat, Sep 29, 2018 7:30 pm
Subject: Re: [mg-tabc] Ensign B5 450-19 Review
To address a few email responses regarding the imbalance of the Ensigns... As noted I intend to look into the balance issue further. There are several ways to balance: By hand & eye with stick-on weights or lead wire (least accurate but acceptable for narrow rims), use a bubble balancer (not optimal but it works well enough), buy the correct adapter cones and spin balance (easiest effective method) or have them balanced on the car (most accurate method) if you have a shop nearby who offers the service. Just don't try to balance them with tapered cones meant for modern cars, as it's almost impossible to get the wheel correctly centered on the machine.
The tires in question are mounted correctly so the imbalance is in the construction of the tire itself. The wheels can still be balanced and although it takes a lot of weights, the total amount of weight is still within industry accepted limits. So while they aren't the nearly perfect balance of the Dunlops, which is unfortunate, they could still be considered acceptable. If I uncover anything notable regarding the balance issue, I'll report back. Meanwhile, I'm still happy overall with the tires. Another 100 miles today and the feel great.
- Steve Simmons, TC8975
On 9/29/2018 7:21 AM, Joe Curto
joecurto@aol.com [mg-tabc] wrote:
Steve regarding balancing if you are spin balancing the tire is the shop using a proper hub adaptor to mount the wheel properly in the machine . There are instructions in Moss catalog showing proper mounting in spin balance machines .
Joe Curto 718-762-7878
www.joecurto.com
-----Original Message-----
From: Steve S
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To:
mg-tabc@yahoogroups.com >> TABC
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Sent: Fri, Sep 28, 2018 9:58 pm
Subject: [mg-tabc] Ensign B5 450-19 Review
As most are probably aware, Dunlop has discontinued manufacture of the B5 tire which was stock for the TC. Ensign bought the molds and re-started manufacture of the B5 about a year ago. I installed a set of these new tires last month and with about 2,000 miles on them now, I can offer a few observations. Out of the box, the appearance of the tire is virtually identical with the exception of the writing on the sidewall. As expected they no longer say Dunlop, but they do still say Made In Great Britain. The original sidewall writing was a bit more attractive but most won't notice this. On the technical side, the overall rolling diameter (inflated) is identical to the Dunlop version, but the tread width as measured at the base is 1/4" narrower and it's definitely noticeable. I didn't have a new Dunlop to compare the width at the top surface of the tread, and my old Dunlops were worn down pretty far so they couldn't be used for comparison in this area, but I suspect they are narrower there also. The maximum sidewall width is about the same. The rubber compound feels softer than Dunlop (going by memory of when my last set of Dunlops were new a few years ago). The shape of the tread is more rounded than the Dunlops as well, which gives them an even narrower appearance. The straightness (true) of the tires is better than the Dunlops when mounted, meaning the tread doesn't wander left to right so much as you spin them. Obviously I can't comment on longevity yet but since they feel like a softer tire I expect they might wear a bit faster. Dunlops seem to last me anywhere from 12,000 to 18,000 miles depending on how they are used. After mounting the tires, I found the balance of the Ensigns atrocious. I've never needed to balance my TC wheels before while running Dunlops but these tires are so far out that it took a huge strip of 12 weights to get them somewhere close to balanced. Without weights they suffered vibration over 45MPH and the wheels while in the air fell quickly to the heavy spots. There's a blue stripe on the bead of each tire which isn't supposed to mean anything but it's possible that this is a balance mark of some sort that isn't conforming to standard colors. I may rotate the tires 180-degrees on the rims when I get a chance to see if it makes a difference, since with the blue stripe at the valve stems, the heavy spots of both front wheels are opposite the valve stems. Once on the road, the first thing I noticed was a noticeably smoother ride than with the Dunlops. My navigator immediately commented on this. The softer rubber compound could partly explain the difference. Into the canyons, I noticed that overall grip was also slightly superior, with a roughly equal amount of predictability (but more noise) when they begin to break loose. Steering response feels different but it's difficult to say which one is better. I suspect that the round shape and deep tread of the Ensign is hurting it here, and once they wear a bit it may improve. On the open highway, Dunlops have always had the problem of trying to follow the grooves in concrete roads. The Ensign, despite having an identical tread pattern, does not suffer this issue so badly. They don't seem to follow the grooves any more than other tires I've driven TCs on. To summarize, I'd say the Dunlops are visually superior, while the Ensigns are technically a better tire with the exception of the balance issue (which I plan to investigate further). I do recommend the Ensigns to anyone considering them, for their improved ride and handling qualities over the old B5.