wheel help!

[gmay131313]

Hi all, posts seem a little slow lately so I thought I'd put this out there. In several of the posts of the last few days, this one included bring up an interesting topic going on in my life, no I haven't had someone close to me in an accident, but that has been partially what has been more then a passing thought lately, so I thought it might be interesting to get other's thoughts and also see how many other's are in the same position, a little back ground fisrt. The fact that I turned 50 last weekend and still haven't grown up yet maybe is part of it, but since I neither feel "it" or act "it" whatever "it" is, but anyway for a lot of years, covering 3 and 4 cylinder kawasakis as well as motocross and enduro bikes, always made faster I pushed the limits, rarely crossed them and escaped with only bumps, bruses a little road rash and a torn up knee....in my opinion very lucky. Street racing was common at that time around where I grew up and like a lot of people on this list know a major mistake in the woods can quickly turn nasty, especially before GPS and cell phones came to be. I always approached riding a bike, any bike at any speed with the respect it needs, practiced technique and it has over the years served me well. Will I ever stop riding myself, probably not before I pass on, hopefully not to "hog heaven", something with mud, gravel and wisties please.... . Anyway back to the topic, I have 2 kids, a boy 23, and a girl 20, both who started on z50's at around 7 or so, he progressed to my KDX200, and sort of lost enought interest that it went down his priority list to where I can't remember the last time he rode it. She stopped riding the 50 maybe when she was 12 or so. Always a natural at any sport she tried. Several of them, mostly soccer as well as school kept her occupied. By 17 she was playing in the provincial senior ladies soccer league and although only 100 or so pounds held her own, I mention the last part because in any sport she played she was smart and tough as well as talented. Anyway University began 2 years ago and trying to get high enough marks to earn her way in Law and the folding of the soccer team she was playing on lead to busy school years and in the summer more free time, including probably on the average a couple hours or sometimes day trip with me on first my KZ and for the last couple seasons my KLR. Well now she is hooked, a 250 Ninja fits perfectly, at first I was excited, we've for several years had probably as much as a best friend relationship as much as a father daughter thing. The father thing kicked in long enough long enough to insist no training, no bike, full gear or no bike, thankfully se trusts my knowledge on this so no problem there. Anyway the question kicks in here, how many others are in the same position as me, while I've always treated both of my kids the same and I'm sure that I would have the same misgivings if it was him at some level it seems different when it comes to what I consider as being a potentiall dangerous situation for a 6', 180lb boy and a 5'4 maybe 110lb girl. I trust her abilities and she approaches stuff like riding with a logical outlook that she got from me, but as we all know ofter it's the other guy that gets you, or at the very best puts in a bad situation that maybe your skills along aren't able to get you out of. Anyway for me I have a short reprive, she's off to Scotland to University for the year, but we have located a couple 250 Ninjas that it was suggested that I could perhaps look at while she was away. While I already know that if a bike is what she wants I'll handle it like all of her other adventures, insist that she is properly prepared for what she is going to do, and in this case enjoy the chance of experiencing a little bit of the adventure with her. But anyway hearing others thoughts on this should be interesting, informative and probably in a lot of cases entertaining....Hopefully I haven't bored anyone too badly and have a great day....Greg --- In DSN_KLR650@yahoogroups.com, "Stuart Mumford" wrote:

> > > -----Original Message----- > > Posted by: "Eric J Foster" TheHaymaker@... n1rzc > > Date: Wed Aug 29, 2007 6:14 am ((PDT)) > > > > While the driver of the car was wrong in pulling out, not to

mention

> > driving off, the rider of the bike, well, shame on him. Driving > > defensively is how a biker stays alive, and doing 80 in a location > > allowing the entry of other vehicles is not doing so. > > > > Think, people! > > > > E > > > > -- > > Come on man, do you even know Highway 74 at all? > > I have ridden it dozens of times, most recently last week. A

modern, well

> sorted sportbike at 80 is totally prudent for that stretch of road. > > "Shame on him"? The guy was KILLED! > > I would think that on a motorcycle e-mail list the blame would be

focused on

> the DRUNK that pulled out into his path, not "shame on him". > > Should the rider have been more defensive? Sure. I believe the poor

guy was

> 20 years old, give him a break. > Who amongst us didn't speed a bit when we were 20? > > "Shame on him"? no. > > Shame on you, pal! > > > Thanks > CA Stu >

[Terry Hamrick]

Teach your children well, encourage them to ride intelligently.. My only child is 29... almost 30.....moving to Prague in October.. albatross

On 8/30/07, gmay131313 wrote: > > Hi all, posts seem a little slow lately so I thought I'd put this > out there. In several of the posts of the last few days, this one > included bring up an interesting topic going on in my life, no I > haven't had someone close to me in an accident, but that has been > partially what has been more then a passing thought lately, so I > thought it might be interesting to get other's thoughts and also see > how many other's are in the same position, a little back ground fisrt. > The fact that I turned 50 last weekend and still haven't grown up > yet maybe is part of it, but since I neither feel "it" or act "it" > whatever "it" is, but anyway for a lot of years, covering 3 and 4 > cylinder kawasakis as well as motocross and enduro bikes, always made > faster I pushed the limits, rarely crossed them and escaped with only > bumps, bruses a little road rash and a torn up knee....in my opinion > very lucky. Street racing was common at that time around where I grew > up and like a lot of people on this list know a major mistake in the > woods can quickly turn nasty, especially before GPS and cell phones > came to be. I always approached riding a bike, any bike at any speed > with the respect it needs, practiced technique and it has over the > years served me well. Will I ever stop riding myself, probably not > before I pass on, hopefully not to "hog heaven", something with mud, > gravel and wisties please.... . > Anyway back to the topic, I have 2 kids, a boy 23, and a girl 20, > both who started on z50's at around 7 or so, he progressed to my > KDX200, and sort of lost enought interest that it went down his > priority list to where I can't remember the last time he rode it. She > stopped riding the 50 maybe when she was 12 or so. Always a natural > at any sport she tried. Several of them, mostly soccer as well as > school kept her occupied. By 17 she was playing in the provincial > senior ladies soccer league and although only 100 or so pounds held > her own, I mention the last part because in any sport she played she > was smart and tough as well as talented. Anyway University began 2 > years ago and trying to get high enough marks to earn her way in Law > and the folding of the soccer team she was playing on lead to busy > school years and in the summer more free time, including probably on > the average a couple hours or sometimes day trip with me on first my > KZ and for the last couple seasons my KLR. Well now she is hooked, a > 250 Ninja fits perfectly, at first I was excited, we've for several > years had probably as much as a best friend relationship as much as a > father daughter thing. > The father thing kicked in long enough long enough to insist no > training, no bike, full gear or no bike, thankfully se trusts my > knowledge on this so no problem there. > Anyway the question kicks in here, how many others are in the same > position as me, while I've always treated both of my kids the same > and I'm sure that I would have the same misgivings if it was him at > some level it seems different when it comes to what I consider as > being a potentiall dangerous situation for a 6', 180lb boy and a 5'4 > maybe 110lb girl. I trust her abilities and she approaches stuff like > riding with a logical outlook that she got from me, but as we all > know ofter it's the other guy that gets you, or at the very best puts > in a bad situation that maybe your skills along aren't able to get > you out of. > Anyway for me I have a short reprive, she's off to Scotland to > University for the year, but we have located a couple 250 Ninjas that > it was suggested that I could perhaps look at while she was away. > While I already know that if a bike is what she wants I'll handle > it like all of her other adventures, insist that she is properly > prepared for what she is going to do, and in this case enjoy the > chance of experiencing a little bit of the adventure with her. But > anyway hearing others thoughts on this should be interesting, > informative and probably in a lot of cases entertaining....Hopefully > I haven't bored anyone too badly and have a great day....Greg > > > --- In DSN_KLR650@yahoogroups.com , "Stuart > Mumford" > wrote: > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > > Posted by: "Eric J Foster" TheHaymaker@... n1rzc > > > Date: Wed Aug 29, 2007 6:14 am ((PDT)) > > > > > > While the driver of the car was wrong in pulling out, not to > mention > > > driving off, the rider of the bike, well, shame on him. Driving > > > defensively is how a biker stays alive, and doing 80 in a location > > > allowing the entry of other vehicles is not doing so. > > > > > > Think, people! > > > > > > E > > > > > > -- > > > > Come on man, do you even know Highway 74 at all? > > > > I have ridden it dozens of times, most recently last week. A > modern, well > > sorted sportbike at 80 is totally prudent for that stretch of road. > > > > "Shame on him"? The guy was KILLED! > > > > I would think that on a motorcycle e-mail list the blame would be > focused on > > the DRUNK that pulled out into his path, not "shame on him". > > > > Should the rider have been more defensive? Sure. I believe the poor > guy was > > 20 years old, give him a break. > > Who amongst us didn't speed a bit when we were 20? > > > > "Shame on him"? no. > > > > Shame on you, pal! > > > > > > Thanks > > CA Stu > > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

[Ronald Criswell]

I witnessed a kid on a 750 Ninja get killed one morning. I was at my local Jack in the Box and heard a bike coming on strong and looked up. He almost center punched a car right in front of me but succeeded in that effort about 1/2 block later. His head went about halfway through the roof of this Mercury and his Shoie full face popped off like a cork. He lived a few minutes and died. They estimated he was doing 90 in rush hour traffic on a 40 mph road. I don't know if he was going 90 but he was definitely on pipe and had a good block / block and a half run from the stop light so maybe he was going that fast. I bet the middle aged lady that turned in front of him didn't see him or mistakenly thought he was going a lot slower. He probably would have killed her if he had hit on the drivers side. I didn't blame her at all. He now has a cross at the side of the road in his honor. A Harley friend said "They don't tell you what happens to you on a sport bike if you hit a cantaloupe truck at 120 mph." I told him about the same thing as hitting a cantaloupe truck at 60 mph on a Harley without a helmet. Hitting any kind of solid object on these things ..... well you will probably be seriously injured at least no matter what you are wearing. Thing is, these things are dangerous, hard to see and you better watch yourself with the chances you take. I know, I have been nailed by a drunk at night but was lucky enough to walk away. I don't ride much at night anymore for that reason. And cagers in general are bad drivers even if they are sober. Criswell

On Aug 30, 2007, at 2:58 PM, Stuart Mumford wrote: > > -----Original Message----- > > Posted by: "Eric J Foster" TheHaymaker@... n1rzc > > Date: Wed Aug 29, 2007 6:14 am ((PDT)) > > > > While the driver of the car was wrong in pulling out, not to mention > > driving off, the rider of the bike, well, shame on him. Driving > > defensively is how a biker stays alive, and doing 80 in a location > > allowing the entry of other vehicles is not doing so. > > > > Think, people! > > > > E > > > > -- > > Come on man, do you even know Highway 74 at all? > > I have ridden it dozens of times, most recently last week. A > modern, well > sorted sportbike at 80 is totally prudent for that stretch of road. > > "Shame on him"? The guy was KILLED! > > I would think that on a motorcycle e-mail list the blame would be > focused on > the DRUNK that pulled out into his path, not "shame on him". > > Should the rider have been more defensive? Sure. I believe the poor > guy was > 20 years old, give him a break. > Who amongst us didn't speed a bit when we were 20? > > "Shame on him"? no. > > Shame on you, pal! > > Thanks > CA Stu > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

[C COOPER]

All it takes is an instants distraction, daydreaming about whatever, regardless of speed. I've done that without drinking, being tired from working a long day, or arguing with the wife, It happens. Every time I get on the bike I know there is a possibility of high speed steel/aluminum poisoning. I'm not passive or karmic about it. All precautions taken, riding a motorcycle may be hazardous to your health. On the other hand, things would change if "they" made two changes. (1) Make examples of drunk drivers by meting out severe penalties. If you're drunk, it's not an accident, it's not manslaughter, it's not 2nd degree murder, it's deliberated behavior. **AND - most importantly** (2) Assess liquor companies for ALL liquor related damages. This includes not only direct property damage and medical costs, but also ancillary costs such as lost incomes, child and spousal support, and alcoholic rehabilitation programs, instead of externalizing direct costs to insurance companies (which means we all pay), and ignoring the other costs altogether. Build ALL the costs into the price of a bottle of Jose Cuervo. All we have to deal with then is the bootleggers. Same thing for tobacco companies. Irks me no end that tobacco companies are allowed to externalize to society at large everything but the direct costs of production... I'll shut up now... Chuck

On 8/30/07, Michael Nelson wrote: > > On Thu, Aug 30, 2007 at 12:58:02PM -0700, Stuart Mumford wrote: > > > I have ridden it dozens of times, most recently last week. A modern, > well > > sorted sportbike at 80 is totally prudent for that stretch of road. > > Obviously not. Not if you can't stop in time when an emergency situation > arises, and this rider clearly was outriding his abilities. Sorry he died, > but if he wasn't going 80, he might be alive. > > How many people practice emergency braking from the speeds they think are > "prudent"? That's right, almost nobody. Not even me, although I *have* > done hard braking practice up to about 50MPH, and it's scary even at 50 > without ABS. > > Michael > > -- > "Do you think that when they asked George Washington for ID he just > whipped > out a quarter?" --Steven Wright > > San Francisco, CA > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

[Mike Frey]

--- In DSN_KLR650@yahoogroups.com, "gmay131313" wrote:

> > But > anyway hearing others thoughts on this should be interesting, > informative and probably in a lot of cases

entertaining....Hopefully

> I haven't bored anyone too badly and have a great day....Greg > >

--------- reply --------------- That's a great post, Greg. I could have written that whole thing about myself and hardly changed the words. My life's experience runs parallel to yours. 35 years riding, rode fast, fell hard. Injured badly off road, but my worst falls on the street were no more than scrapes so far. I hope to keep it that way - and never crash that bad off road again, either not sure I could survive what I did at age 21. I also have two kids, both are now riders. Daughter, 24, has more experience than son, 26. She has a CBR600, I'm helping #1 son to find a nice used Ninja 500. He tried the 250 but at 6'2" and 220 or so, that bike is a bit small for him. He rides my KLR, but he's not into Dual Sport type bikes. They're not for everyone although Philadelphia (where he lives) is a GREAT place to ride the KLR. Urban SUV kind of thing, I guess. He prefers smooth pavement. When I'm there, I like riding over curbs and across vacant lots. Yeah, I still ride fast from time to time. Double the speed limit, triple digits? Guilty (only on remote roads). I am much more aware of my own mortality than I was at 21, though. I have a 27-year-old nephew who rides a Ninja ZX6. He's a very good rider but loves ultra high speeds, wheelies, stoppies all while wearing nothing more than a T Shirt and shorts. He does wear his helmet, though. He wonders why I don't ride with him more often - even though I've told him why. Duh. I raised my kids better - I hope. Mike

[Eric J Foster]

If 80 was a "prudent" speed, then stopping before hitting the drunk driver wouldn't have been a problem. It's too bad that more people don't understand the rules of defensive driving. By definition, DD is "Driving in such a manner as to prevent an accident (no such thing, but the word serves a purpose here) due to the improper actions of others or inclement weather". This is not a matter of who's right and who's wrong, it's a matter of coming home alive. I rather like doing that, and so do my wife and kid. Blaming the drunk for pulling out in front of me while my lifeblood is spilling onto the hot pavement is absolutely useless by the time it gets to this point. I teach DD to professional drivers and it is often a challenge to get them to think this way, to quit passing blame and simply take the responsibility of being one step above the other guy. You will NEVER fix all of the erratic drivers, drunks, cell phone users, far too elderly license holders, etc. But, you can VERY simply equip yourself with the tools necessary to finish the ride without 3/4 of the bones in your body being turned into bonemeal. Rule number one is to look at every other vehicle on the road as a sniper for the opposing force. They will KILL you at first chance. Ride accordingly. Thinkahbowtit! E -- Guns kill people like silverware made Rosie O'Donnell fat. http://map.findu.com/ke1lb-14 Good Stuff, Trucks Bring It!!

[Ronald Criswell]

Well .... I was at a total stop when a drunk driver hit me from the rear so how do you play defensive driver with that? His headlight ran right into my seat and flattened the rim to the axle. Me ... I went sailing merrily through the air landing on my helmet (they work). Sitting up close to the gas tank is a good thing in this situation. And laying there ... on the ground ........... I watched him drive off. A witness caught up with him and ran him into a light pole (justice). He was more concerned about who dinged his truck than me. He spent 3 days in jail and a $350 fine. This was in 1973. He probably did it again. I walked away with a dinged helmet and a dinged bike. I wonder if my shoulder pain and arm pain today was caused by this moron. Be careful when you sign a release. I try not to ride at 11:30 PM anymore. Criswell

On Aug 30, 2007, at 7:32 PM, Eric J Foster wrote: > If 80 was a "prudent" speed, then stopping before hitting the drunk > driver wouldn't have been a problem. It's too bad that more people > don't > understand the rules of defensive driving. > > By definition, DD is "Driving in such a manner as to prevent an > accident > (no such thing, but the word serves a purpose here) due to the > improper > actions of others or inclement weather". This is not a matter of who's > right and who's wrong, it's a matter of coming home alive. I rather > like > doing that, and so do my wife and kid. Blaming the drunk for > pulling out > in front of me while my lifeblood is spilling onto the hot pavement is > absolutely useless by the time it gets to this point. > > I teach DD to professional drivers and it is often a challenge to get > them to think this way, to quit passing blame and simply take the > responsibility of being one step above the other guy. You will > NEVER fix > all of the erratic drivers, drunks, cell phone users, far too elderly > license holders, etc. But, you can VERY simply equip yourself with the > tools necessary to finish the ride without 3/4 of the bones in your > body > being turned into bonemeal. > > Rule number one is to look at every other vehicle on the road as a > sniper for the opposing force. They will KILL you at first chance. > Ride > accordingly. > > Thinkahbowtit! > > E > > -- > Guns kill people like silverware made Rosie O'Donnell fat. > > http://map.findu.com/ke1lb-14 Good Stuff, Trucks Bring It!! > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

[Craig Kahler]

The motorcycle industry and motorcycle users are also to blame. Most people killed or seriously injured in motorcycle wrecks, would have walked away if they were driving cars. The motorcycle rider is knowingly taking more risk than the car driver. I own and enjoy riding motorcycles, I accept the risk. It's the price of freedom. It bothers me when we try to place all the blame on others. ie drunk drivers. CraigKahler c cooper wrote: All it takes is an instants distraction, daydreaming about whatever, regardless of speed. I've done that without drinking, being tired from working a long day, or arguing with the wife, It happens. Every time I get on the bike I know there is a possibility of high speed steel/aluminum poisoning. I'm not passive or karmic about it. All precautions taken, riding a motorcycle may be hazardous to your health. On the other hand, things would change if "they" made two changes. (1) Make examples of drunk drivers by meting out severe penalties. If you're drunk, it's not an accident, it's not manslaughter, it's not 2nd degree murder, it's deliberated behavior. **AND - most importantly** (2) Assess liquor companies for ALL liquor related damages. This includes not only direct property damage and medical costs, but also ancillary costs such as lost incomes, child and spousal support, and alcoholic rehabilitation programs, instead of externalizing direct costs to insurance companies (which means we all pay), and ignoring the other costs altogether. Build ALL the costs into the price of a bottle of Jose Cuervo. All we have to deal with then is the bootleggers. Same thing for tobacco companies. Irks me no end that tobacco companies are allowed to externalize to society at large everything but the direct costs of production... I'll shut up now... Chuck

On 8/30/07, Michael Nelson wrote: > > On Thu, Aug 30, 2007 at 12:58:02PM -0700, Stuart Mumford wrote: > > > I have ridden it dozens of times, most recently last week. A modern, > well > > sorted sportbike at 80 is totally prudent for that stretch of road. > > Obviously not. Not if you can't stop in time when an emergency situation > arises, and this rider clearly was outriding his abilities. Sorry he died, > but if he wasn't going 80, he might be alive. > > How many people practice emergency braking from the speeds they think are > "prudent"? That's right, almost nobody. Not even me, although I *have* > done hard braking practice up to about 50MPH, and it's scary even at 50 > without ABS. > > Michael > > -- > "Do you think that when they asked George Washington for ID he just > whipped > out a quarter?" --Steven Wright > > San Francisco, CA > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] --------------------------------- Looking for a deal? Find great prices on flights and hotels with Yahoo! FareChase. [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

[Charlie Yahrmarkt]

Riding a KLR650 gives you an option when you're cruisin down the ole turnpike and some [ole geezer]/[dumb kid] pulls out in front of you then all you gotta do is : _tap_ the brakes, swerve over on the berm, cross the stream, enter the culvert, and exit the other side of the highway, where you pop a wheelie, do one or two donuts, then explode in a cloud of dust and fly over her hood , causing her to gasp "Oh, my !" Then smile and wave merrily and beep the KLR horn and say " Have a nice day, ma'am. !"

[Eric J Foster]

Getting hit from behind while legally stopped is a far cry from making excuses for doing 80 in a populated area.............. This is like justifying not wearing a seatbelt because you have a friend of a friend of a friend who had a friend whose 3rd cousins' step mother was killed because she was wearing a seatbelt. Sorry to bind this up gents, I was merely trying to help. E Ronald Criswell wrote:

> Well .... I was at a total stop when a drunk driver hit me from the > rear so how do you play defensive driver with that? His headlight ran > right into my seat and flattened the rim to the axle. Me ... I went > sailing merrily through the air landing on my helmet (they work). > Sitting up close to the gas tank is a good thing in this situation. > And laying there ... on the ground ........... I watched him drive > off. A witness caught up with him and ran him into a light pole > (justice). He was more concerned about who dinged his truck than me. > He spent 3 days in jail and a $350 fine. This was in 1973. He probably > did it again. I walked away with a dinged helmet and a dinged bike. I > wonder if my shoulder pain and arm pain today was caused by this > moron. Be careful when you sign a release. I try not to ride at 11:30 > PM anymore.

-- Guns kill people like silverware made Rosie O'Donnell fat. http://map.findu.com/ke1lb-14 Good Stuff, Trucks Bring It!!