Re: Seat Belts

[Mark & Sheila Masters]

You already know the answer. Otherwise you wouldn t be asking the question. MarkNZ

On 4May, 2018, at 05:11, 'arm@telus.net' arm@telus.net [mg-tabc] wrote:

This is a timely thread for me.
I am doing a stupidly extensive restoration of a '66 B-GT.    The seatbelt issue is just in time....I am torn. This car is for my daughter and her daughters (who are, by the way, the most spectacular humans on earth). Do I stay true to the car? I have spent thousands to be period correct.....do I then  put in inertia type restraints?....OMG....I am confused

From: "Stephen D Stierman morgan7709@sbcglobal.net [mg-tabc]"
To: "Murray G Arundell" , "mg-tabc"
Sent: Thursday, 3 May, 2018 06:12:49
Subject: Re: [mg-tabc] Seat Belts

 
Well Murray, I have sturdy quick release racing type lap belts in TC2911, probably more for affect/appearance than any hopes of survivability in a really bad crash.  My suspicion is that it may be better to stay with the vehicle rather than being thrown out and hence the reason I went this route.  With a steering wheel mounted on a long sturdy shaft  pointed directly at one's chest, a petrol tank as a rear bumper, and sheet metal and ash for side impact, and no roll over protection, I am not really sure that much more is of great value in terms of shoulder/full harness etc.  I have no illusions about the inherent lack of safety in these old vehicles so tend to drive rather carefully and hardly at night for any distance.  Sometimes I will take a grand child for a short run at low speed and feel more comfortable with at least some sort of restraint.Steve TC2911

From: "Murray G Arundell arundell@ghs.com.au [mg-tabc]"
To: mg tc  
Sent: Wednesday, May 2, 2018 11:33 PM
Subject: [mg-tabc] Seat Belts

 As many of you ll know my TC gets a lot of country miles here DownUnder.  Often a return trip can be well over a thousand miles.  I can be a long way to anywhere down here.  In all my years of TC driving I ve never had seat belts fitted.  Lately I ve come to the conclusion that perhaps one should have belts installed.  Whats the group s thoughts on this and which way to go?  Lap, Lap/Sash or Full Harness?
Murray ArundellBrisbane, Australia

[arm@telus.net]

Yes...Steve. I hear you. Except....
My oldest daughter, who piloted our GT across the Island highway when we were out of gas.....Dad pushing and her little sister screaming encouragement she was 12.. and has been in love with this car ever since... She is now a 30 something single mom with a severely handicapped daughter. She told be that if I didn't restore our GT she would........so I now have a $65000 '66 BGT
It's pretty cool though....


From: "Stephen D Stierman"
To: arm@telus.net
Cc: "Murray G Arundell" , "mg-tabc"
Sent: Thursday, 3 May, 2018 11:31:20
Subject: Re: [mg-tabc] Seat Belts

This car is for my daughter and her daughters (who are, by the way, the most spectacular humans on earth).
I share the same sentiment, having two daughters myself, a grand daughter, and a couple of grandsons, who all drive around in SUV's, I might suggest you keep the MGB yourself and purchase something else for them, least being a newer Miata with fairly current safety equipment.Steve TC2911

From: "'arm@telus.net' arm@telus.net [mg-tabc]"
To: Stephen D Stierman
Cc: Murray G Arundell ; mg-tabc
Sent: Thursday, May 3, 2018 1:16 PM
Subject: Re: [mg-tabc] Seat Belts

  This is a timely thread for me.
I am doing a stupidly extensive restoration of a '66 B-GT.    The seatbelt issue is just in time....I am torn. This car is for my daughter and her daughters (who are, by the way, the most spectacular humans on earth). Do I stay true to the car? I have spent thousands to be period correct.....do I then  put in inertia type restraints?....OMG....I am confused

From: "Stephen D Stierman morgan7709@sbcglobal.net [mg-tabc]"
To: "Murray G Arundell" , "mg-tabc"
Sent: Thursday, 3 May, 2018 06:12:49
Subject: Re: [mg-tabc] Seat Belts

  Well Murray, I have sturdy quick release racing type lap belts in TC2911, probably more for affect/appearance than any hopes of survivability in a really bad crash.  My suspicion is that it may be better to stay with the vehicle rather than being thrown out and hence the reason I went this route.  With a steering wheel mounted on a long sturdy shaft  pointed directly at one's chest, a petrol tank as a rear bumper, and sheet metal and ash for side impact, and no roll over protection, I am not really sure that much more is of great value in terms of shoulder/full harness etc.  I have no illusions about the inherent lack of safety in these old vehicles so tend to drive rather carefully and hardly at night for any distance.  Sometimes I will take a grand child for a short run at low speed and feel more comfortable with at least some sort of restraint.Steve TC2911

From: "Murray G Arundell arundell@ghs.com.au [mg-tabc]"
To: mg tc
Sent: Wednesday, May 2, 2018 11:33 PM
Subject: [mg-tabc] Seat Belts

  As many of you ll know my TC gets a lot of country miles here DownUnder.  Often a return trip can be well over a thousand miles.  I can be a long way to anywhere down here.  In all my years of TC driving I ve never had seat belts fitted.  Lately I ve come to the conclusion that perhaps one should have belts installed.  Whats the group s thoughts on this and which way to go?  Lap, Lap/Sash or Full Harness?
Murray ArundellBrisbane, Australia







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[Stephen D Stierman]

I hear ya.........three words though; agreed value insurance.......

From: "'arm@telus.net' arm@telus.net [mg-tabc]"
To: Stephen D Stierman
Cc: Murray G Arundell ; mg-tabc
Sent: Thursday, May 3, 2018 6:28 PM
Subject: Re: [mg-tabc] Seat Belts

  Yes...Steve. I hear you. Except....
My oldest daughter, who piloted our GT across the Island highway when we were out of gas.....Dad pushing and her little sister screaming encouragement she was 12.. and has been in love with this car ever since... She is now a 30 something single mom with a severely handicapped daughter. She told be that if I didn't restore our GT she would........so I now have a $65000 '66 BGT
It's pretty cool though....


From: "Stephen D Stierman"
To: arm@telus.net
Cc: "Murray G Arundell" , "mg-tabc"
Sent: Thursday, 3 May, 2018 11:31:20
Subject: Re: [mg-tabc] Seat Belts

This car is for my daughter and her daughters (who are, by the way, the most spectacular humans on earth)..
I share the same sentiment, having two daughters myself, a grand daughter, and a couple of grandsons, who all drive around in SUV's, I might suggest you keep the MGB yourself and purchase something else for them, least being a newer Miata with fairly current safety equipment.Steve TC2911

From: "'arm@telus.net' arm@telus.net [mg-tabc]"
To: Stephen D Stierman
Cc: Murray G Arundell ; mg-tabc
Sent: Thursday, May 3, 2018 1:16 PM
Subject: Re: [mg-tabc] Seat Belts

  This is a timely thread for me.
I am doing a stupidly extensive restoration of a '66 B-GT.    The seatbelt issue is just in time....I am torn. This car is for my daughter and her daughters (who are, by the way, the most spectacular humans on earth). Do I stay true to the car? I have spent thousands to be period correct.....do I then  put in inertia type restraints?....OMG....I am confused

From: "Stephen D Stierman morgan7709@sbcglobal.net [mg-tabc]"
To: "Murray G Arundell" , "mg-tabc"
Sent: Thursday, 3 May, 2018 06:12:49
Subject: Re: [mg-tabc] Seat Belts

  Well Murray, I have sturdy quick release racing type lap belts in TC2911, probably more for affect/appearance than any hopes of survivability in a really bad crash.  My suspicion is that it may be better to stay with the vehicle rather than being thrown out and hence the reason I went this route.  With a steering wheel mounted on a long sturdy shaft  pointed directly at one's chest, a petrol tank as a rear bumper, and sheet metal and ash for side impact, and no roll over protection, I am not really sure that much more is of great value in terms of shoulder/full harness etc.  I have no illusions about the inherent lack of safety in these old vehicles so tend to drive rather carefully and hardly at night for any distance.  Sometimes I will take a grand child for a short run at low speed and feel more comfortable with at least some sort of restraint.Steve TC2911

From: "Murray G Arundell arundell@ghs.com.au [mg-tabc]"
To: mg tc
Sent: Wednesday, May 2, 2018 11:33 PM
Subject: [mg-tabc] Seat Belts

  As many of you ll know my TC gets a lot of country miles here DownUnder.  Often a return trip can be well over a thousand miles.  I can be a long way to anywhere down here.  In all my years of TC driving I ve never had seat belts fitted.  Lately I ve come to the conclusion that perhaps one should have belts installed.  Whats the group s thoughts on this and which way to go?  Lap, Lap/Sash or Full Harness?
Murray ArundellBrisbane, Australia










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[Steve S]

I ran without belts for a time, and once fitted I found the car far more comfortable with them than without. The ride felt less bouncy and the steering more confident when I was held firmly in my seat. A lot of older cars including TCa don't have a good way to mount belts, and there is a lot of disagreement on what the best setup is.
My decision was to install lap belts only. The mounting point for a shoulder belt would be very low and far behind the seat. The problem here is that in a collision, the downward force of the belt could cause severe shoulder, back or neck injury. Also the excessive length could allow the occupant to twist sideways and come out from the belt, at which time (assuming a modern 1-piece belt was used) the lap belt would be free to loosen. There is also the argument about a roll-over, where you would be unable to "duck". I feel this is a low probability situation but still worth considering.

With lap belts there are other issues to be considered as well. First and foremost for me is the fact that the TC is a body-on-frame construction. In a serious incident, the body could shift on the frame. If the belts are secured to the frame then so are you, except that the seat you're sitting on will be moving in relation to the mounting points, with a lot of mass behind it. I can't imagine the damage that could be done to the torso if this happened. Best case the body shifts rearward so the belt loosens, but even then you may slide right under or out of the belt. However if the belts are mounted to the frame then you suffer a lack of strength, and an accident could result in the belts tearing right out of the wood.
My solution was to make a compromise by mounting the outer (male) belt securely to the frame. The inner (female) half is attached to the gearbox tunnel with a very large backing washer. My thinking is that if the body were to move, then only one half of the belt would be fully affected. And if the metal tunnel were to tear away then hopefully the initial impact would already have been absorbed.
I think the bottom line is that without belts, you're in for a world of pain if you get into an accident. If you are thrown forward, it isn't just the solid steering column, but also everything under the dash that could shatter your kneecaps. And if you're thrown out of the cockpit, you're going to collide with a lot of things before you're out of the car. Imagine squeezing yourself in and then having a giant yank you out by the arms without warning. Of course this is all my own opinion and everyone should make their own decision on what type of risk is best for them.
- Steve Simmons, TC8975


On 5/2/2018 8:33 PM, Murray G Arundell arundell@ghs.com.au [mg-tabc] wrote:

As many of you ll know my TC gets a lot of country miles here DownUnder. Often a return trip can be well over a thousand miles. I can be a long way to anywhere down here. In all my years of TC driving I ve never had seat belts fitted. Lately I ve come to the conclusion that perhaps one should have belts installed. Whats the group s thoughts on this and which way to go? Lap, Lap/Sash or Full Harness?
Murray Arundell Brisbane, Australia

[Michael Leckstein]

This thread was discussed at length on the MMM Forum.  The consensus was not to install them.  I have belts in my TF but not in the TC or the prewar cars.  I wish I had them in all the cars but the attachments are a problem in the early cars.  My reason to want them, as has been expressed by others, is the security of not sliding around in my seat. I don’t expect them to do much  in a crash. It is more about comfort. I often thought of putting belts on my riding lawn mower  for the same reason!  Mike  From: mg-tabc@yahoogroups.com [mailto:mg-tabc@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of mgtc@comcast.net [mg-tabc]
Sent: Thursday, May 03, 2018 9:31 AM
To: mg-tabc@yahoogroups.com
Subject: [mg-tabc] Re: Seat Belts  


Murray,  Your question is evocative of a lengthy discussion held by our Vintage Racing group following a racing fatality involving a PA.  The driver had a full harness, but he really was uncomfortable and did not tighten it up properly.  Course workers on the scene reported that, as he  flipped in the air, they could clearly see that his shoulders were above the windshield. He did not survive a broken neck.  The discussion focused on safety equipment for Vintage cars and went on for several months and extended to other Vintage Racing organizations in Europe.  The consensus was that it was mos tly impractical to retrofit modern race safety equipment into 50-90 year old cars.  Consider the TC steering shaft and its probable trajectory in a frontal crash.  Retrofit a collapsible shaft?  Install a roll cage in a Lola T70?  Crush bumpers on a  Bugatti Tipo 57?  The place where we wound up was looking at the driver himself.  The conclusion was that the driver must know the limits…. Of his car…And of himself.  Far more than any six point harness, roll hoops, and crush zones, the driver is the greatest safety device.  Regarding your question about belts, I offer two considerations:1.     What do you expect the belt to accomplish?  Will it prevent you from being ejected from the car?  Probably, especially if a shoulder restraint is involved.  Will it protect you in a roll-over? No. Only the Good Lord can do that.  Will it protect you from mashing your head through the windshield? Likely no more that the steering wheel does now (cf. steering shaft).2.     Do you understand that proper use of the belts requires that you bring them up full tight, and then tighter?  (Even a tight harness has about 3 inches of play under stress.)  Will you religiously use the belt and fully tighten?  Are you willing to be that uncomfortable? Mind that the type of belting you are considering is antique and obsolete.   The shock tightening belts and air bags in your daily bear only a remote resemblance.  A thousand miles through the Blue Mountains would be a dream come true for me.  I have driven a bit of them and found it quite glorious.  I do envy your repeated access.  As you enjoy yourself, please do keep in mind our mantra; a driver must know his limits and the limits of his car.  Very happy motoring!  _Peter

[Bill Hyatt]

Steve,I would say that main advantage in adding seat belts to a vintage vehicle is possible lower insurance rate, but mainly to mitigate additional personal injury liability proportion. I.e. if in an accident, and one is severely dinged due to not wearing a seat belt, one is much less likely to be awarded full compensation for injuries sustained that might not have happened if wearing a restraint system!  Bill TC 4926Odessa, Fl  From: mg-tabc@yahoogroups.com On Behalf Of Steve S mail@mgnuts.com [mg-tabc]
Sent: Thursday, May 03, 2018 8:21 PM
To: mg-tabc@yahoogroups.com
Subject: Re: [mg-tabc] Seat Belts   
I ran without belts for a time, and once fitted I found the car far more comfortable with them than without.  The ride felt less bouncy and the steering more confident when I was held firmly in my seat.  A lot of older cars including TCa don't have a good way to mount belts, and there is a lot of disagreement on what the best setup is.
My decision was to install lap belts only.  The mounting point for a shoulder belt would be very low and far behind the seat.  The problem here is that in a collision, the downward force of the belt could cause severe shoulder, back or neck injury.  Also the excessive length could allow the occupant to twist sideways and come out from the belt, at which time (assuming a modern 1-piece belt was used) the lap belt would be free to loosen.  There is also the argument about a roll-over, where you would be unable to "duck".  I feel this is a low probability situation but still worth considering.
With lap belts there are other issues to be considered as well.  First and foremost for me is the fact that the TC is a body-on-frame construction.  In a serious incident, the body could shift on the frame.  If the belts are secured to the frame then so are you, except that the seat you're sitting on will be moving in relation to the mounting points, with a lot of mass behind it.  I can't imagine the damage that could be done to the torso if this happened.  Best case the body shifts rearward so the belt loosens, but even then you may slide right under or out of the belt.  However if the belts are mounted to the frame then you suffer a lack of strength, and an accident could result in the belts tearing right out of the wood.
My solution was to make a compromise by mounting the outer (male) belt securely to the frame.  The inner (female) half is attached to the gearbox tunnel with a very large backing washer.  My thinking is that if the body were to move, then only one half of the belt would be fully affected.  And if the metal tunnel were to tear away then hopefully the initial impact would already have been absorbed.
I think the bottom line is that without belts, you're in for a world of pain if you get into an accident.  If you are thrown forward, it isn't just the solid steering column, but also everything under the dash that could shatter your kneecaps.  And if you're thrown out of the cockpit, you're going to collide with a lot of things before you're out of the car.  Imagine squeezing yourself in and then having a giant yank you out by the arms without warning.  Of course this is all my own opinion and everyone should make their own decision on what type of risk is best for them.
- Steve Simmons, TC8975
   On 5/2/2018 8:33 PM, Murray G Arundell arundell@ghs.com.au [mg-tabc] wrote:

  As many of you ll know my TC gets a lot of country miles here Down Under.  Often a return trip can be well over a thousand miles.  I can be a long way to anywhere down here.  In all my years of TC driving I ve never had seat belts fitted.  Lately I ve come to the conclusion that perhaps one should have belts installed.  What's the group s thoughts on this and which way to go?  Lap, Lap/Sash or Full Harness?  Murray ArundellBrisbane, Australia        

 

[Michael Leckstein]

Better yet, a Velcro driving suit, would  keep one in place but would release easily in an accident . Just kidding.  From: Norman Verona [mailto:norman@frenchblat.com]
Sent: Friday, May 04, 2018 8:05 AM
To: 'Michael Leckstein'
Subject: RE: [mg-tabc] Re: Seat Belts  Just a thought. Would a couple of small cushions, one between you and the door and the other between you and the prop tunnel help with the sliding problem. I’ll try it later today and see.    Norman Verona11 Cherry Close, Royston, South Yorkshire S71 4LZPhone: 0044 (0)1226 728811Mob: 0044 (0)741 9905 741Web: www.frenchblat.com  From: mg-tabc@yahoogroups.com On Behalf Of 'Michael Leckstein' mgleckstein@monmouth.com [mg-tabc]
Sent: 04 May 2018 12:42
To: mgtc@comcast.net; mg-tabc@yahoogroups.com
Subject: RE: [mg-tabc] Re: Seat Belts    This thread was discussed at length on the MMM Forum.  The consensus was not to install them.  I have belts in my TF but not in the TC or the prewar cars.  I wish I had them in all the cars but the attachments are a problem in the early cars.  My reason to want them, as has been expressed by others, is the security of not sliding around in my seat. I don’t expect them to do much  in a crash. It is more about comfort. I often thought of putting belts on my riding lawn mower  for the same reason! Mike From: mg-tabc@yahoogroups.com [mg-tabc@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of mgtc@comcast.net [mg-tabc]
Sent: Thursday, May 03, 2018 9:31 AM
To: mg-tabc@yahoogroups.com
Subject: [mg-tabc] Re: Seat Belts 


Murray, Your question is evocative of a lengthy discussion held by our Vintage Racing group following a racing fatality involving a PA.  The driver had a full harness, but he really was uncomfortable and did not tighten it up properly.  Course workers on the scene reported that, as he  flipped in the air, they could clearly see that his shoulders were above the windshield. He did not survive a broken neck.  The discussion focused on safety equipment for Vintage cars and went on for several months and extended to other Vintage Racing organizations in Europe.  The consensus was that it was mos tly impractical to retrofit modern race safety equipment into 50-90 year old cars.  Consider the TC steering shaft and its probable trajectory in a frontal crash.  Retrofit a collapsible shaft?  Install a roll cage in a Lola T70?  Crush bumpers on a  Bugatti Tipo 57? The place where we wound up was looking at the driver himself.  The conclusion was that the driver must know the limits…. Of his car…And of himself.  Far more than any six point harness, roll hoops, and crush zones, the driver is the greatest safety device. Regarding your question about belts, I offer two considerations:1.     What do you expect the belt to accomplish?  Will it prevent you from being ejected from the car?  Probably, especially if a shoulder restraint is involved.  Will it protect you in a roll-over? No. Only the Good Lord can do that.  Will it protect you from mashing your head through the windshield? Likely no more that the steering wheel does now (cf. steering shaft).2.     Do you understand that proper use of the belts requires that you bring them up full tight, and then tighter?  (Even a tight harness has about 3 inches of play under stress.)  Will you religiously use the belt and fully tighten?  Are you willing to be that uncomfortable? Mind that the type of belting you are considering is antique and obsolete.   The shock tightening belts and air bags in your daily bear only a remote resemblance. A thousand miles through the Blue Mountains would be a dream come true for me.  I have driven a bit of them and found it quite glorious.  I do envy your repeated access.  As you enjoy yourself, please do keep in mind our mantra; a driver must know his limits and the limits of his car. Very happy motoring! _Peter

[arm@telus.net]

Sound advice, Steve..

And like most good advice in my life I shall probably ignore it...to my loss.
This GT is an heirloom...it will NOT be a daily driver.....perhaps they'll have to wait till I croak....One gets the GT and one gets the TC....unless I decide to be buried in the TC


From: "Stephen D Stierman morgan7709@sbcglobal.net [mg-tabc]"
To: arm@telus.net
Cc: "Murray G Arundell" , "mg-tabc"
Sent: Thursday, 3 May, 2018 11:31:20
Subject: Re: [mg-tabc] Seat Belts

  This car is for my daughter and her daughters (who are, by the way, the most spectacular humans on earth).
I share the same sentiment, having two daughters myself, a grand daughter, and a couple of grandsons, who all drive around in SUV's, I might suggest you keep the MGB yourself and purchase something else for them, least being a newer Miata with fairly current safety equipment.Steve TC2911

From: "'arm@telus.net' arm@telus.net [mg-tabc]"
To: Stephen D Stierman
Cc: Murray G Arundell ; mg-tabc
Sent: Thursday, May 3, 2018 1:16 PM
Subject: Re: [mg-tabc] Seat Belts

  This is a timely thread for me.
I am doing a stupidly extensive restoration of a '66 B-GT.    The seatbelt issue is just in time....I am torn. This car is for my daughter and her daughters (who are, by the way, the most spectacular humans on earth). Do I stay true to the car? I have spent thousands to be period correct.....do I then  put in inertia type restraints?....OMG....I am confused

From: "Stephen D Stierman morgan7709@sbcglobal.net [mg-tabc]"
To: "Murray G Arundell" , "mg-tabc"
Sent: Thursday, 3 May, 2018 06:12:49
Subject: Re: [mg-tabc] Seat Belts

  Well Murray, I have sturdy quick release racing type lap belts in TC2911, probably more for affect/appearance than any hopes of survivability in a really bad crash.  My suspicion is that it may be better to stay with the vehicle rather than being thrown out and hence the reason I went this route.  With a steering wheel mounted on a long sturdy shaft  pointed directly at one's chest, a petrol tank as a rear bumper, and sheet metal and ash for side impact, and no roll over protection, I am not really sure that much more is of great value in terms of shoulder/full harness etc.  I have no illusions about the inherent lack of safety in these old vehicles so tend to drive rather carefully and hardly at night for any distance.  Sometimes I will take a grand child for a short run at low speed and feel more comfortable with at least some sort of restraint.Steve TC2911

From: "Murray G Arundell arundell@ghs.com.au [mg-tabc]"
To: mg tc
Sent: Wednesday, May 2, 2018 11:33 PM
Subject: [mg-tabc] Seat Belts

  As many of you ll know my TC gets a lot of country miles here DownUnder.  Often a return trip can be well over a thousand miles.  I can be a long way to anywhere down here.  In all my years of TC driving I ve never had seat belts fitted..  Lately I ve come to the conclusion that perhaps one should have belts installed.  Whats the group s thoughts on this and which way to go?  Lap, Lap/Sash or Full Harness?
Murray ArundellBrisbane, Australia

[Paul Huck]

I put in the racing type quick release. Looks better, more period. My 67 Midget., I took the option and had regular belts, not wind ups.
Please share pictures of these spectacular daughters referred to in this=thread. LOL

On Friday, May 4, 2018 3:37 PM, "'arm@telus.net' arm@telus.net [mg-tabc]" wrote:


  Sound advice, Steve..

And like most good advice in my life I shall probably ignore it...to my loss.
This GT is an heirloom...it will NOT be a daily driver.....perhaps they'll have to wait till I croak....One gets the GT and one gets the TC....unless I decide to be buried in the TC


From: "Stephen D Stierman morgan7709@sbcglobal.net [mg-tabc]"
To: arm@telus.net
Cc: "Murray G Arundell" , "mg-tabc"
Sent: Thursday, 3 May, 2018 11:31:20
Subject: Re: [mg-tabc] Seat Belts

  This car is for my daughter and her daughters (who are, by the way, the most spectacular humans on earth).
I share the same sentiment, having two daughters myself, a grand daughter, and a couple of grandsons, who all drive around in SUV's, I might suggest you keep the MGB yourself and purchase something else for them, least being a newer Miata with fairly current safety equipment.Steve TC2911

From: "'arm@telus.net' arm@telus.net [mg-tabc]"
To: Stephen D Stierman
Cc: Murray G Arundell ; mg-tabc
Sent: Thursday, May 3, 2018 1:16 PM
Subject: Re: [mg-tabc] Seat Belts

  This is a timely thread for me.
I am doing a stupidly extensive restoration of a '66 B-GT.    The seatbelt issue is just in time....I am torn. This car is for my daughter and her daughters (who are, by the way, the most spectacular humans on earth). Do I stay true to the car? I have spent thousands to be period correct.....do I then  put in inertia type restraints?....OMG....I am confused

From: "Stephen D Stierman morgan7709@sbcglobal.net [mg-tabc]"
To: "Murray G Arundell" , "mg-tabc"
Sent: Thursday, 3 May, 2018 06:12:49
Subject: Re: [mg-tabc] Seat Belts

  Well Murray, I have sturdy quick release racing type lap belts in TC2911, probably more for affect/appearance than any hopes of survivability in a really bad crash.  My suspicion is that it may be better to stay with the vehicle rather than being thrown out and hence the reason I went this route.  With a steering wheel mounted on a long sturdy shaft  pointed directly at one's chest, a petrol tank as a rear bumper, and sheet metal and ash for side impact, and no roll over protection, I am not really sure that much more is of great value in terms of shoulder/full harness etc.  I have no illusions about the inherent lack of safety in these old vehicles so tend to drive rather carefully and hardly at night for any distance.  Sometimes I will take a grand child for a short run at low speed and feel more comfortable with at least some sort of restraint.Steve TC2911

From: "Murray G Arundell arundell@ghs.com.au [mg-tabc]"
To: mg tc
Sent: Wednesday, May 2, 2018 11:33 PM
Subject: [mg-tabc] Seat Belts

  As many of you ll know my TC gets a lot of country miles here DownUnder.  Often a return trip can be well over a thousand miles.  I can be a long way to anywhere down here.  In all my years of TC driving I ve never had seat belts fitted...  Lately I ve come to the conclusion that perhaps one should have belts installed.  Whats the group s thoughts on this and which way to go?  Lap, Lap/Sash or Full Harness?
Murray ArundellBrisbane, Australia










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[Murray G Arundell]

Tim,
I suspect that Australian crash statistics are similar to those in the US.  Although I also note that a recent article I read on the subject stated that the most common fatal accident outside of the metropolitan areas of Australia is a single vehicle accident where a car simply veers off the road and strikes a stationary object.  Simply put this means that the driver has lost control and the car leaves the road.  The most common cause of this is driver fatigue.  Understandable if you know the geography of Australia.  Roo strikes happen regularly and at speed this can prove fatal to the driver as well as the roo.
Cheers 
Murray Arundelle arundell@ghs.com.au

On 4 May 2018, at 5:31 am, Timothy Burchfield tburchfi@gmail.com [mg-tabc] wrote:

Roll overs are very rare here in the US.  According to the NHTSA the most common type of accident is the rear end collision and the most common speed is about 10 miles an hour.  So a lap and shoulder belt harness protect you in the majority of accidents you are likely to have in the USA.  In a T Series car any other type of accident or at speeds greater than 20 MPH nothing short of a roll bar and full harness is likely to save you. Again, that is in the US.  For all I know running into a kangaroo might be the most common accident down under. 
Cheers
Tim