Re: Morgan is a boutique car producer and today is essentially a bi

Liz Harris · Post by **Liz Harris** » Thu Apr 14, 2005 2:58 pm

I could`nt agree more with you Steve....I worked for a number of years with a very dear friend of mine restoring Morgans, ( BLACK PHEY Ltd ) and the `works outing` as it were, was the occasional trip down to Malvern Link to pick up the larger items of an upcoming rebuild/restoration. No trip was complete without the walk round the factory soaking up the unique atmosphere and picking up little tips on how the `works` put a Morgan together...the highlight being watching a bonnet being fitted. Every one is (still) different and made with a lot of pride by all that work on them ...probably even more so today than perhaps the MG T types were in there hayday. Seems to me to be a rather shrewd idea to let some one else develope your power plant/drive train and let the skilled tradesmen do the interesting bit.... Don`t get me wrong, I love my TC and am sorry to see the great name of MG once again being thrown in the air hoping someone will catch it, but credit where credit is due, and the Morgan Motor Company deserves just that for still being here.. Tweed TC 2259... Stephen D Stierman morgan7709@sbcglobal.net> wrote: I suggest the author of the above remark take a trip to the 'works' in Malvern and see Morgans assembled. Yes they do buy engines and other assemblies from outside sources as they always have, but there is plenty of machine work, metal fabrication, upholstery, painting, and wood working, yes I said wood working done in house. They do no more "outsourcing" then other small manufactures do in this day. This small company like many others cannot be all things to all people. I would say given the hard times small manufactures have had over the years they are to be envied, not criticized. If having full order books is somehow not a prudent way to do business, I ask what is?! Hopefully they will continue in business owned by the family much longer then the 100 year anniversary they will be celebrating in a few short years. Respectfully, Steve Stierman, TC 2911 Morgan Plus 8, R7082 Vice President and Technical Advisor, Ohio Morgan Owners Group Yahoo! Groups Links Send instant messages to your online friends http://uk.messenger.yahoo.com [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

1939mgtb · Post by **1939mgtb** » Sat Apr 16, 2005 2:23 pm

Interesting cars. Does anyone in the US actually DRIVE one? I know the Brits do...... Best regards, Ray "There are no easy answers in this case m'lud."

----- Original Message ----- From: "Liz Harris" lizandtweed@yahoo.co.uk> To: "Stephen D Stierman" morgan7709@sbcglobal.net>; "mg tc" mg-tabc@yahoogroups.com> Sent: Thursday, April 14, 2005 4:58 PM Subject: Re: [mg-tabc] Morgan is a boutique car producer and today is essentially a bistsa > > I could`nt agree more with you Steve....I worked for a number of years > with a very dear friend of mine restoring Morgans, ( BLACK PHEY Ltd ) and > the `works outing` as it were, was the occasional trip down to Malvern > Link to pick up the larger items of an upcoming rebuild/restoration. No > trip was complete without the walk round the factory soaking up the unique > atmosphere and picking up little tips on how the `works` put a Morgan > together...the highlight being watching a bonnet being fitted. Every one > is (still) different and made with a lot of pride by all that work on them > ...probably even more so today than perhaps the MG T types were in there > hayday. Seems to me to be a rather shrewd idea to let some one else > develope your power plant/drive train and let the skilled tradesmen do the > interesting bit.... > Don`t get me wrong, I love my TC and am sorry to see the great name of MG > once again being thrown in the air hoping someone will catch it, but > credit where credit is due, and the Morgan Motor Company deserves just > that for still being here.. Tweed TC 2259... > > Stephen D Stierman morgan7709@sbcglobal.net> wrote: > > I suggest the author of the above remark take a trip > to the 'works' in Malvern and see Morgans assembled. > Yes they do buy engines and other assemblies from > outside sources as they always have, but there is > plenty of machine work, metal fabrication, upholstery, > painting, and wood working, yes I said wood working > done in house. They do no more "outsourcing" then > other small manufactures do in this day. This small > company like many others cannot be all things to all > people. I would say given the hard times small > manufactures have had over the years they are to be > envied, not criticized. If having full order books is > somehow not a prudent way to do business, I ask what > is?! Hopefully they will continue in business owned > by the family much longer then the 100 year > anniversary they will be celebrating in a few short > years. > > Respectfully, > Steve Stierman, TC 2911 > Morgan Plus 8, R7082 > Vice President and Technical Advisor, Ohio Morgan > Owners Group > > > > Yahoo! Groups Links > > > > > > > > > > Send instant messages to your online friends http://uk.messenger.yahoo.com > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > > > > > Yahoo! Groups Links > > > > > > >

David Lodge · Post by **David Lodge** » Sun Apr 17, 2005 11:05 am

Hello Ray, Not sure about the new ones - has your D.O.T lain hands on them, compliance certification, etc? - but any British meet brings the old ones out in droves, at least up here in the Pacific Northwest. All the best, David Lodge ----- ORIGINAL MESSAGE ----- From: "1939mgtb" 1939mgtb@comcast.net> To: "Stephen D Stierman" morgan7709@sbcglobal.net>,"mg tc" mg-tabc@yahoogroups.com>,"Liz Harris" lizandtweed@yahoo.co.uk> Subject: Re: [mg-tabc] Morgan is a boutique car producer Date: 16.4.2005 - 23:23:16

> > Interesting cars. Does anyone in the US actually DRIVE > one? I know the > Brits do...... > Best regards, > Ray > "There are no easy answers in this case m'lud." > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Liz Harris" lizandtweed@yahoo.co.uk> > To: "Stephen D Stierman" morgan7709@sbcglobal.net>; > "mg tc" > mg-tabc@yahoogroups.com> > Sent: Thursday, April 14, 2005 4:58 PM > Subject: Re: [mg-tabc] Morgan is a boutique car > producer and today is > essentially a bistsa > > > > > > I could`nt agree more with you Steve....I worked for > > a number of years > > with a very dear friend of mine restoring Morgans, ( > > BLACK PHEY Ltd ) and > > the `works outing` as it were, was the occasional > > trip down to Malvern > > Link to pick up the larger items of an upcoming > > rebuild/restoration. No > > trip was complete without the walk round the factory > > soaking up the unique > > atmosphere and picking up little tips on how the > > `works` put a Morgan > > together...the highlight being watching a bonnet > > being fitted. Every one > > is (still) different and made with a lot of pride by > > all that work on them > > ...probably even more so today than perhaps the MG T > > types were in there > > hayday. Seems to me to be a rather shrewd idea to let > > some one else > > develope your power plant/drive train and let the > > skilled tradesmen do the > > interesting bit.... > > Don`t get me wrong, I love my TC and am sorry to see > > the great name of MG > > once again being thrown in the air hoping someone > > will catch it, but > > credit where credit is due, and the Morgan Motor > > Company deserves just > > that for still being here.. Tweed TC 2259... > > > > Stephen D Stierman morgan7709@sbcglobal.net> wrote: > > > > I suggest the author of the above remark take a trip > > to the 'works' in Malvern and see Morgans assembled. > > Yes they do buy engines and other assemblies from > > outside sources as they always have, but there is > > plenty of machine work, metal fabrication, > > upholstery, > > painting, and wood working, yes I said wood working > > done in house. They do no more "outsourcing" then > > other small manufactures do in this day. This small > > company like many others cannot be all things to all > > people. I would say given the hard times small > > manufactures have had over the years they are to be > > envied, not criticized. If having full order books is > > somehow not a prudent way to do business, I ask what > > is?! Hopefully they will continue in business owned > > by the family much longer then the 100 year > > anniversary they will be celebrating in a few short > > years. > > > > Respectfully, > > Steve Stierman, TC 2911 > > Morgan Plus 8, R7082 > > Vice President and Technical Advisor, Ohio Morgan > > Owners Group > > > > > > > > Yahoo! Groups Links > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Send instant messages to your online friends > > http://uk.messenger.yahoo.com > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > > > > > > > > > > Yahoo! Groups Links > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Yahoo! Groups Links > > > > > > > >

-- Levn j internet v pracovn dny ji od 18:00 hod. Surfujte s VOLN ! http://mimospicku.volny.cz

1939mgtb · Post by **1939mgtb** » Sun Apr 17, 2005 12:40 pm

I think some were converted to LPG out on the west coast.....Dunno how the DOT was done, though. Best regards, Ray "There are no easy answers in this case m'lud."

----- Original Message ----- From: "David Lodge" archie_ponsonby@post.cz> To: 1939mgtb@comcast.net>; morgan7709@sbcglobal.net>; mg-tabc@yahoogroups.com>; lizandtweed@yahoo.co.uk> Sent: Sunday, April 17, 2005 1:05 PM Subject: Re: [mg-tabc] Morgan is a boutique car producer and today is essentially a bistsa Hello Ray, Not sure about the new ones - has your D.O.T lain hands on them, compliance certification, etc? - but any British meet brings the old ones out in droves, at least up here in the Pacific Northwest. All the best, David Lodge ----- ORIGINAL MESSAGE ----- From: "1939mgtb" 1939mgtb@comcast.net> To: "Stephen D Stierman" morgan7709@sbcglobal.net>,"mg tc" mg-tabc@yahoogroups.com>,"Liz Harris" lizandtweed@yahoo.co.uk> Subject: Re: [mg-tabc] Morgan is a boutique car producer Date: 16.4.2005 - 23:23:16 > > Interesting cars. Does anyone in the US actually DRIVE > one? I know the > Brits do...... > Best regards, > Ray > "There are no easy answers in this case m'lud." > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Liz Harris" lizandtweed@yahoo.co.uk> > To: "Stephen D Stierman" morgan7709@sbcglobal.net>; > "mg tc" > mg-tabc@yahoogroups.com> > Sent: Thursday, April 14, 2005 4:58 PM > Subject: Re: [mg-tabc] Morgan is a boutique car > producer and today is > essentially a bistsa > > > > > > I could`nt agree more with you Steve....I worked for > > a number of years > > with a very dear friend of mine restoring Morgans, ( > > BLACK PHEY Ltd ) and > > the `works outing` as it were, was the occasional > > trip down to Malvern > > Link to pick up the larger items of an upcoming > > rebuild/restoration. No > > trip was complete without the walk round the factory > > soaking up the unique > > atmosphere and picking up little tips on how the > > `works` put a Morgan > > together...the highlight being watching a bonnet > > being fitted. Every one > > is (still) different and made with a lot of pride by > > all that work on them > > ...probably even more so today than perhaps the MG T > > types were in there > > hayday. Seems to me to be a rather shrewd idea to let > > some one else > > develope your power plant/drive train and let the > > skilled tradesmen do the > > interesting bit.... > > Don`t get me wrong, I love my TC and am sorry to see > > the great name of MG > > once again being thrown in the air hoping someone > > will catch it, but > > credit where credit is due, and the Morgan Motor > > Company deserves just > > that for still being here.. Tweed TC 2259... > > > > Stephen D Stierman morgan7709@sbcglobal.net> wrote: > > > > I suggest the author of the above remark take a trip > > to the 'works' in Malvern and see Morgans assembled. > > Yes they do buy engines and other assemblies from > > outside sources as they always have, but there is > > plenty of machine work, metal fabrication, > > upholstery, > > painting, and wood working, yes I said wood working > > done in house. They do no more "outsourcing" then > > other small manufactures do in this day. This small > > company like many others cannot be all things to all > > people. I would say given the hard times small > > manufactures have had over the years they are to be > > envied, not criticized. If having full order books is > > somehow not a prudent way to do business, I ask what > > is?! Hopefully they will continue in business owned > > by the family much longer then the 100 year > > anniversary they will be celebrating in a few short > > years. > > > > Respectfully, > > Steve Stierman, TC 2911 > > Morgan Plus 8, R7082 > > Vice President and Technical Advisor, Ohio Morgan > > Owners Group > > > > > > > > Yahoo! Groups Links > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Send instant messages to your online friends > > http://uk.messenger.yahoo.com > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > > > > > > > > > > Yahoo! Groups Links > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Yahoo! Groups Links > > > > > > > > -- Levn j internet v pracovn dny ji od 18:00 hod. Surfujte s VOLN ! http://mimospicku.volny.cz

Stephen D Stierman · Post by **Stephen D Stierman** » Sun Apr 17, 2005 1:14 pm

Bill Fink at Isis brought quite a few in and converted them to LPG. The safety stuff was done using various changes, bumpers mounted on shock absorbers and raised to leagal heights, door beams put in, etc. etc. Still quite a few around and many changed back to gasoline. Where there is a will there is a way. S. Stierman TC 2911 --- 1939mgtb 1939mgtb@comcast.net> wrote:

> > I think some were converted to LPG out on the west > coast.....Dunno how the > DOT was done, though. > Best regards, > Ray > "There are no easy answers in this case m'lud." > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "David Lodge" archie_ponsonby@post.cz> > To: 1939mgtb@comcast.net>; > morgan7709@sbcglobal.net>; > mg-tabc@yahoogroups.com>; lizandtweed@yahoo.co.uk> > Sent: Sunday, April 17, 2005 1:05 PM > Subject: Re: [mg-tabc] Morgan is a boutique car > producer and today is > essentially a bistsa > > > Hello Ray, > > Not sure about the new ones - has your D.O.T lain > hands on them, > compliance certification, etc? - but any British > meet brings the > old ones out in droves, at least up here in the > Pacific > Northwest. > > All the best, David Lodge > > > > ----- ORIGINAL MESSAGE ----- > From: "1939mgtb" 1939mgtb@comcast.net> > To: "Stephen D Stierman" > morgan7709@sbcglobal.net>,"mg tc" > mg-tabc@yahoogroups.com>,"Liz Harris" > lizandtweed@yahoo.co.uk> > Subject: Re: [mg-tabc] Morgan is a boutique car > producer > Date: 16.4.2005 - 23:23:16 > > > > > Interesting cars. Does anyone in the US actually > DRIVE > > one? I know the > > Brits do...... > > Best regards, > > Ray > > "There are no easy answers in this case m'lud." > > > > ----- Original Message ----- > > From: "Liz Harris" lizandtweed@yahoo.co.uk> > > To: "Stephen D Stierman" > morgan7709@sbcglobal.net>; > > "mg tc" > > mg-tabc@yahoogroups.com> > > Sent: Thursday, April 14, 2005 4:58 PM > > Subject: Re: [mg-tabc] Morgan is a boutique car > > producer and today is > > essentially a bistsa > > > > > > > > > > I could`nt agree more with you Steve....I > worked for > > > a number of years > > > with a very dear friend of mine restoring > Morgans, ( > > > BLACK PHEY Ltd ) and > > > the `works outing` as it were, was the > occasional > > > trip down to Malvern > > > Link to pick up the larger items of an upcoming > > > rebuild/restoration. No > > > trip was complete without the walk round the > factory > > > soaking up the unique > > > atmosphere and picking up little tips on how the > > > `works` put a Morgan > > > together...the highlight being watching a bonnet > > > being fitted. Every one > > > is (still) different and made with a lot of > pride by > > > all that work on them > > > ...probably even more so today than perhaps the > MG T > > > types were in there > > > hayday. Seems to me to be a rather shrewd idea > to let > > > some one else > > > develope your power plant/drive train and let > the > > > skilled tradesmen do the > > > interesting bit.... > > > Don`t get me wrong, I love my TC and am sorry to > see > > > the great name of MG > > > once again being thrown in the air hoping > someone > > > will catch it, but > > > credit where credit is due, and the Morgan Motor > > > Company deserves just > > > that for still being here.. Tweed TC 2259... > > > > > > Stephen D Stierman morgan7709@sbcglobal.net> > wrote: > > > > > > I suggest the author of the above remark take a > trip > > > to the 'works' in Malvern and see Morgans > assembled. > > > Yes they do buy engines and other assemblies > from > > > outside sources as they always have, but there > is > > > plenty of machine work, metal fabrication, > > > upholstery, > > > painting, and wood working, yes I said wood > working > > > done in house. They do no more "outsourcing" > then > > > other small manufactures do in this day. This > small > > > company like many others cannot be all things to > all > > > people. I would say given the hard times small > > > manufactures have had over the years they are to > be > > > envied, not criticized. If having full order > books is > > > somehow not a prudent way to do business, I ask > what > > > is?! Hopefully they will continue in business > owned > > > by the family much longer then the 100 year > > > anniversary they will be celebrating in a few > short > > > years. > > > > > > Respectfully, > > > Steve Stierman, TC 2911 > > > Morgan Plus 8, R7082 > > > Vice President and Technical Advisor, Ohio > Morgan > > > Owners Group > > > > > > > > > > > > Yahoo! Groups Links > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Send instant messages to your online friends > > > http://uk.messenger.yahoo.com > > > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been > removed] > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Yahoo! Groups Links > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Yahoo! Groups Links > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > -- > Levn j internet v pracovn dny ji od 18:00 hod. > Surfujte s VOLN ! > http://mimospicku.volny.cz > > > > > Yahoo! Groups Links >

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Charles Hill · Post by **Charles Hill** » Sun Apr 17, 2005 8:25 pm

Short Morgans in the US history Morgan stopped exporting cars to the US in the late 60s primarily due to US EPA requirements. In the early '70s, Bill Fink of Isis Motors met the EPA requirements by converting the cars to run on propane. He still had to meet NHTSA requirements which meant side marker lights, sealed beam headlights, door beams, reinforced bumpers, etc. A small trickle of Morgans came to the US. with ISIS as the official "manufacturer." Years later, Morgans were able to meet US EPA requirements running on gasoline (don't recall the years exactly) Also Morgan started building cars to meet US NHTSA requirements - up until the demise of the +8 model last year (Land Rover, now a Ford company, stopped making the engine, which was the old Buick aluminum V8, a design they bought from GM years ago.) Morgan plans on exporting a limited number of the new Ford V6-powered Roadster to the US starting this fall. BTW, if the Morgan is a boutique car, then what are our MGs? How many engines did MG actually build in their own engine plant? How many body tubs were actually built by MG at Abingdon? If you start looking closely you may discover that the MG Ts were more bitsa cars than the Morgan. Regards, Charles Hill 1939mgtb wrote:

>I think some were converted to LPG out on the west coast.....Dunno how the >DOT was done, though. >Best regards, >Ray >"There are no easy answers in this case m'lud." > >----- Original Message ----- >From: "David Lodge" archie_ponsonby@post.cz> >To: 1939mgtb@comcast.net>; morgan7709@sbcglobal.net>; >mg-tabc@yahoogroups.com>; lizandtweed@yahoo.co.uk> >Sent: Sunday, April 17, 2005 1:05 PM >Subject: Re: [mg-tabc] Morgan is a boutique car producer and today is >essentially a bistsa > > >Hello Ray, > >Not sure about the new ones - has your D.O.T lain hands on them, >compliance certification, etc? - but any British meet brings the >old ones out in droves, at least up here in the Pacific >Northwest. > >All the best, David Lodge > > > >----- ORIGINAL MESSAGE ----- >From: "1939mgtb" 1939mgtb@comcast.net> >To: "Stephen D Stierman" morgan7709@sbcglobal.net>,"mg tc" >mg-tabc@yahoogroups.com>,"Liz Harris" lizandtweed@yahoo.co.uk> >Subject: Re: [mg-tabc] Morgan is a boutique car producer >Date: 16.4.2005 - 23:23:16 > > > >>Interesting cars. Does anyone in the US actually DRIVE >>one? I know the >>Brits do...... >>Best regards, >>Ray >>"There are no easy answers in this case m'lud." >> >>----- Original Message ----- >>From: "Liz Harris" lizandtweed@yahoo.co.uk> >>To: "Stephen D Stierman" morgan7709@sbcglobal.net>; >>"mg tc" >>mg-tabc@yahoogroups.com> >>Sent: Thursday, April 14, 2005 4:58 PM >>Subject: Re: [mg-tabc] Morgan is a boutique car >>producer and today is >>essentially a bistsa >> >> >> >> >>>I could`nt agree more with you Steve....I worked for >>>a number of years >>>with a very dear friend of mine restoring Morgans, ( >>>BLACK PHEY Ltd ) and >>>the `works outing` as it were, was the occasional >>>trip down to Malvern >>>Link to pick up the larger items of an upcoming >>>rebuild/restoration. No >>>trip was complete without the walk round the factory >>>soaking up the unique >>>atmosphere and picking up little tips on how the >>>`works` put a Morgan >>>together...the highlight being watching a bonnet >>>being fitted. Every one >>>is (still) different and made with a lot of pride by >>>all that work on them >>>...probably even more so today than perhaps the MG T >>>types were in there >>>hayday. Seems to me to be a rather shrewd idea to let >>>some one else >>>develope your power plant/drive train and let the >>>skilled tradesmen do the >>>interesting bit.... >>>Don`t get me wrong, I love my TC and am sorry to see >>>the great name of MG >>>once again being thrown in the air hoping someone >>>will catch it, but >>>credit where credit is due, and the Morgan Motor >>>Company deserves just >>>that for still being here.. Tweed TC 2259... >>> >>>Stephen D Stierman morgan7709@sbcglobal.net> wrote: >>> >>>I suggest the author of the above remark take a trip >>>to the 'works' in Malvern and see Morgans assembled. >>>Yes they do buy engines and other assemblies from >>>outside sources as they always have, but there is >>>plenty of machine work, metal fabrication, >>>upholstery, >>>painting, and wood working, yes I said wood working >>>done in house. They do no more "outsourcing" then >>>other small manufactures do in this day. This small >>>company like many others cannot be all things to all >>>people. I would say given the hard times small >>>manufactures have had over the years they are to be >>>envied, not criticized. If having full order books is >>>somehow not a prudent way to do business, I ask what >>>is?! Hopefully they will continue in business owned >>>by the family much longer then the 100 year >>>anniversary they will be celebrating in a few short >>>years. >>> >>>Respectfully, >>>Steve Stierman, TC 2911 >>>Morgan Plus 8, R7082 >>>Vice President and Technical Advisor, Ohio Morgan >>>Owners Group >>> >>> >>> >>>Yahoo! Groups Links >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>>Send instant messages to your online friends >>>http://uk.messenger.yahoo.com >>> >>>[Non-text portions of this message have been removed] >>> >>> >>> >>> >>>Yahoo! Groups Links >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >> >> >>Yahoo! Groups Links >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> > > > >

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Charles Hill · Post by **Charles Hill** » Sun Apr 17, 2005 10:03 pm

Murray, I think sheer numbers argue for my point. I don't have exact numbers readily available, but could probably get them. Morgan produces about 750 cars a year - some years more, some years less. (BTW they are still making sports cars) MG produced 10,000 TC in 4 years, which is 2500/year. Ford and Chevrolet were producing over a million cars a year at that time. Thats 2739 cars/day for each. So MG out-produced Morgan, but still their annual output was still less than one day's production for either Chevy or Ford. Sounds like both are boutique cars to me. Regards, Charles Hill Murray Arundell wrote:

>> BTW, if the Morgan is a boutique car, then what are our MGs? How many >> engines did MG actually build in their own engine plant? How many body >> tubs were actually built by MG at Abingdon? If you start looking >> closely you may discover that the MG Ts were more bitsa cars than the > > > Charles, > > Part of what you've said is true, but its a bit of a long bow to draw > comparing a > TC to a Morgan. The sheer numbers alone argue against your point. > > Murray Arundell > >

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