bolts for the timing cover

[Ted Gantz]

Bolts for the timing cover of a 1938 TA what are they? Some of original bolts are striped it seems the bolt into the engine block is one thread and the bolt into the steel plate over the block are another thread. close but not alike, hense previous owner striped some of the bolts. Both are a 5/16 (or is it 8mm?) bolt and the tread into the block is the same as the studs thread into the block, is this the french metric size I have heard about? What are the two thread sizes and where can I get them, hopefully promptly? Ted

[Ray McCrary]

Afganastani metric......or was that Egyptian..... Ray McCrary "Speed is Life; of course Luck and Altitude are helpful, too."

----- Original Message ----- From: "Ted Gantz" tgantz@fuse.net> To: mg-tabc@yahoogroups.com> Sent: Monday, May 28, 2001 5:11 PM Subject: [mg-tabc] bolts for the timing cover > Bolts for the timing cover of a 1938 TA what are they? Some of original > bolts are striped it seems the bolt into the engine block is one thread > and the bolt into the steel plate over the block are another thread. > close but not alike, hense previous owner striped some of the bolts. > Both are a 5/16 (or is it 8mm?) bolt and the tread into the block is the > same as the studs thread into the block, is this the french metric size > I have heard about? What are the two thread sizes and where can I get > them, hopefully promptly? > Ted > > > > > > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ > >

[Skip Kelsey]

Ted: I would try 8MM X 1.00 Pitch!~!!!! Skip Kelsey.......................... At 01:56 PM 5/28/01, Ray McCrary wrote:

>Afganastani metric......or was that Egyptian..... >Ray McCrary >"Speed is Life; >of course Luck and Altitude >are helpful, too." >----- Original Message ----- >From: "Ted Gantz" tgantz@fuse.net> >To: mg-tabc@yahoogroups.com> >Sent: Monday, May 28, 2001 5:11 PM >Subject: [mg-tabc] bolts for the timing cover > > > > Bolts for the timing cover of a 1938 TA what are they? Some of original > > bolts are striped it seems the bolt into the engine block is one thread > > and the bolt into the steel plate over the block are another thread. > > close but not alike, hense previous owner striped some of the bolts. > > Both are a 5/16 (or is it 8mm?) bolt and the tread into the block is the > > same as the studs thread into the block, is this the french metric size > > I have heard about? What are the two thread sizes and where can I get > > them, hopefully promptly? > > Ted > > > > > > > > > > > > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ > > > > > > > > >Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/

[Chip Old]

On Mon, 28 May 2001, Ted Gantz wrote to mg-tabc@yahoogroups.com:

> Bolts for the timing cover of a 1938 TA what are they? Some of > original bolts are striped it seems the bolt into the engine block is > one thread and the bolt into the steel plate over the block are > another thread. close but not alike, hense previous owner striped some > of the bolts. Both are a 5/16 (or is it 8mm?) bolt and the tread into > the block is the same as the studs thread into the block, is this the > french metric size I have heard about? What are the two thread sizes > and where can I get them, hopefully promptly?

The original bolts were 8 mm diameter with a 1 mm pitch. If you now have two different thread pitches, then some previous owner substituted either some more modern 8 mm X 1.25 mm bolts, or possibly 5/16 BSF or 5/15 UNF bolts. All the threads in all the T-Series engines and gearboxes are so-called "French Metric", with the exception of most of the pipe threads which are British Standard Pipe. In fact all the engine and gearbox measurements are metric. They were built in an old Hotchkiss armaments factory built in England by the French during the First World War. William Morris acquired the factory some time in the 1920s, and kept all the Metric tooling. However to make life easier for British owners and mechanics, his metric-threaded bolts and nuts had hex heads sized for British Standard (or Whitworth) wrenches. These oddball bolts and nuts are often referred to as made to the "Nuffield's Mad Metric" standard. -- Chip Old 1948 M.G. TC TC6710 XPAG7430 NEMGTR #2271 Cub Hill, MD, USA 1962 Triumph TR4 CT3154LO CT3479E fold@bcpl.net

[Ray McCrary]

Actually, the thread should be called "French Algerian Mad English Ancient Metric". Actually invented by the French Foreign Legion in their spare time, it was a thread adapted from an ancient Egyptian thread used to screw together the old war chariots. An Englishman, who had run from the British Navy and was hiding in the Legion at the time, used the thread originally when repairing the belt driven fan system inside an Algerian whore house. Because of his amazing success in improving the comfort level of FFL officers and a British Admiral who was visiting on an ill-fated attempt to build a sand ship, the sailor was pardoned and returned with his thread discovery to England. He began by selling whore house fan systems, but discovered that the climate just didn't need the cooling effect. Indeed, it seemed to cool and slow the customers so much that business dropped.off. He turned, in desperation, to auto machine work, and the rest is history. Ray McCrary "Speed is Life; of course Luck and Altitude are helpful, too."

----- Original Message ----- From: "Chip Old" fold@bcpl.net> To: "MG-TABC" mg-tabc@yahoogroups.com> Sent: Monday, May 28, 2001 4:56 PM Subject: Re: [mg-tabc] bolts for the timing cover > On Mon, 28 May 2001, Ted Gantz wrote to mg-tabc@yahoogroups.com: > > > Bolts for the timing cover of a 1938 TA what are they? Some of > > original bolts are striped it seems the bolt into the engine block is > > one thread and the bolt into the steel plate over the block are > > another thread. close but not alike, hense previous owner striped some > > of the bolts. Both are a 5/16 (or is it 8mm?) bolt and the tread into > > the block is the same as the studs thread into the block, is this the > > french metric size I have heard about? What are the two thread sizes > > and where can I get them, hopefully promptly? > > The original bolts were 8 mm diameter with a 1 mm pitch. If you now have > two different thread pitches, then some previous owner substituted either > some more modern 8 mm X 1.25 mm bolts, or possibly 5/16 BSF or 5/15 UNF > bolts. > > All the threads in all the T-Series engines and gearboxes are so-called > "French Metric", with the exception of most of the pipe threads which are > British Standard Pipe. In fact all the engine and gearbox measurements > are metric. They were built in an old Hotchkiss armaments factory built > in England by the French during the First World War. William Morris > acquired the factory some time in the 1920s, and kept all the Metric > tooling. However to make life easier for British owners and mechanics, > his metric-threaded bolts and nuts had hex heads sized for British > Standard (or Whitworth) wrenches. These oddball bolts and nuts are often > referred to as made to the "Nuffield's Mad Metric" standard. > > -- > Chip Old 1948 M.G. TC TC6710 XPAG7430 NEMGTR #2271 > Cub Hill, MD, USA 1962 Triumph TR4 CT3154LO CT3479E > fold@bcpl.net > > > > > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ > > >

[Roger Furneaux]

hi Ted - Chip was quite right, and if I had had the 'puter turned on yesterday would have written exactly the same! as many of you know, I can supply any bolt or stud for the XPAG, and a while back was lent a sample of most MPJG bolts. the timing cover bolt sample was missing, however the TA parts list shows 11-off p/n X679/15 to hold the front bearer plate to the block, and 7-off p/n X679/11 to secure the timing chain case. I suspect that these are very similar to later XPAG bolts which were re-numbered, so PLS let me know the lengths and you can have them by retutn of post. I have stocks of these 8 x 1.0mm bolts in most lengths but with modern metric (13mm AF) heads which are only a tad smaller than the original (0.525"/13.3mm). also, Tracy Tools (see recent thread) will sell you 8 x 1.0 taps & dies if you want to clean up any old bolts, but I have these as well. ocTagonally "Mad Metric" Roger Ted Gantz wrote:

>Bolts for the timing cover of a 1938 TA what are they? Some of original >bolts are striped it seems the bolt into the engine block is one thread >and the bolt into the steel plate over the block are another thread. >close but not alike, hense previous owner striped some of the bolts. >Both are a 5/16 (or is it 8mm?) bolt and the tread into the block is the >same as the studs thread into the block, is this the french metric size >I have heard about? What are the two thread sizes and where can I get >them, hopefully promptly?

[Chip Old]

On Tue, 29 May 2001, Roger Furneaux wrote:

> I have stocks of these 8 x 1.0mm bolts in most lengths but with modern > metric (13mm AF) heads which are only a tad smaller than the original > (0.525"/13.3mm).

WHAT?! That's heresy! I'm joking, of course. Used to be you could get the metric bolts with the correct BS hex heads from Moss Motors, Abingdon Spares, etc, but I haven't bought any in recent decades. Does anyone still supply them? -- Chip Old 1948 M.G. TC TC6710 XPAG7430 NEMGTR #2271 Cub Hill, MD, USA 1962 Triumph TR4 CT3154LO CT3479E fold@bcpl.net

[Frank O_ The Mountain]

In a message dated 5/29/01 7:58:56 AM Pacific Daylight Time, fold@bcpl.net writes: > Chip, my local Ace hardware store has a nice selection of 8mm x 1.0 pitch bolts and nuts plus the 10mm x 1.5 pitch used on the SA motor. Very handy while I'm putting the SA back together. I think Moss still supply with proper Bsf heads too. Terry

[Chip Old]

On Tue, 29 May 2001, TATERRY@aol.com wrote:

> Chip, my local Ace hardware store has a nice selection of 8mm x 1.0 > pitch bolts and nuts plus the 10mm x 1.5 pitch used on the SA motor. > Very handy while I'm putting the SA back together.

Yes, but they have metric hex heads. Tsk! -- Chip Old 1948 M.G. TC TC6710 XPAG7430 NEMGTR #2271 Cub Hill, MD, USA 1962 Triumph TR4 CT3154LO CT3479E fold@bcpl.net