nklr restaurants?

[Stu]

Braking leverage - Makes sense - then why aren't all rotors as large a diameter as they can get away with - rhetorical... if the same caliper can get a 150% improvement in braking without "short-life"ing some other component - ??- just saying... errata - My personal theory - The Japanese engineers were famous for taking existing technology and expounding on it - why reinvent the wheel when you can go stand on the shoulders of giants...so it's not a derogatory assignation. Engineers of all disciplines will always reuse as long as it is legal and appropriate - whether building bridges or writing code. As many of you probably know, the Kawasaki W650 was K's challenge to the British Classic bike group. The W650 was/is a better Bonneville than a comparable Triumph - and I used to ride/love Triumphs - especially the Bonneville - had several of 'em (old Triumphs that is - back in the day). Band brakes , right foot shifter, Lucas - Prince of Darkness, bikes that proudly mark their spot...etc - and K succeeded with a wonderful product but K didn't realize the market was not big enough to support continuing production. The reason for this diatribe is I swear Sheila, handles and rides like the old Triumph scramblers to me (again Sheila has been dialed down to fit me 5'10") - she's quirky and "analog" compared to contemporary rides - but wind her up and she rolls through corners with grace - vibrating but not disconcerting... As I continue to reestablish/acquire my skills up to her level, she instills confidence in our relationship. Very forgiving of any of my "oooops" and ready to strut her stuff when asked. No kick start required - but I don't miss that.. So I believe that Kawasaki somehow bottled some of that magic of the old Triumphs (Isle of Man etc) and infused that into our venerable KLR's. Nope, I'm not drowning in Holiday grog, just had an exceptionally pleasant ride today - not too much traffic as everyone was shopping, temps were brisk but doable, still have some leaves on the trees, clear blue skies... North Ga roads... Really had a ball with the old gal... All the best to all, Stu

----- Original Message ----- From: "Jeff Saline salinej1@... [DSN_KLR650]" DSN_KLR650@yahoogroups.com> Stu, Maybe think of the leverage involved with the brake pads and distance to the axle (pivot point). The further away from the axle the more leverage available for stopping. Best, Jeff Saline The Beautiful Black Hills of South Dakota 75 R90/6, 03 KLR650 . . . . . . . . __________________________________________________________ Odd Trick Fights Diabetes "Unique" Proven Method To Control Blood Sugar In 3 Weeks. Watch Video. http://thirdpartyoffers.juno.com/TGL3141/54792ea812e62ea773dcst02vuc

[Jeff Saline]

On Fri, 28 Nov 2014 22:13:00 -0500 (EST) "Stu klr650zen@... [DSN_KLR650]" DSN_KLR650@yahoogroups.com> writes:

> > Braking leverage - Makes sense - then why aren't all rotors as > large a diameter as they can get away with - rhetorical... if the > same caliper can get a 150% improvement in braking without > "short-life"ing some other component - ??- just saying... >

<><><><><><><> <><><><><><><> Stu, I'll suggest the rotor size might have a bit to do with the intended use of the machine. I know I've ridden my KLR in rocks and rough spots and a larger rotor might get dinged. Sometimes if I'm looking at bikes I'll see rotors attached to the rim of the wheel and the caliper is working from the inside of the rotor diameter. I'll bet those brakes work well but would not survive in a "KLR" environment. Best, Jeff Saline The Beautiful Black Hills of South Dakota 75 R90/6, 03 KLR650 . . . . . ____________________________________________________________ Odd Trick Fights Diabetes "Unique" Proven Method To Control Blood Sugar In 3 Weeks. Watch Video. http://thirdpartyoffers.juno.com/TGL3141/5479457e310ab457e5143st02vuc

[mark ward]

MONEY!  If a works, why pay more for B.? Better shock, better seat BETTER etc etc. = MORE $$$$$ The KLR is know as a GREAT, "Base" Start with bike. You get it cheaper, then Most "Specialty" Bikes , and then YOU CAN ADD ON TO THE BASE, And build based on your need$ or De$ire$.  More Pavement (HIGHER SPEEDS) Add the Larger Rotor.More DIRT & off road Smaller rotor OR Add a $HIELD to protect against the rocks, (SLOWER STOPPING OR YOU SLIDE!!!) OFF Pavement, you AVOID THE FRONT BRAKE. Even Touch that Fr Brake near loose dirt or SAND And you are in trouble.(Just ask John B. He was Behind me when I DID. OOPS. LOL) On Friday, November 28, 2014 11:04 PM, "Jeff Saline salinej1@... [DSN_KLR650]" DSN_KLR650@yahoogroups.com> wrote:

  On Fri, 28 Nov 2014 22:13:00 -0500 (EST) "Stu klr650zen@... [DSN_KLR650]" DSN_KLR650@yahoogroups.com> writes: > > Braking leverage - Makes sense - then why aren't all rotors as > large a diameter as they can get away with - rhetorical... if the > same caliper can get a 150% improvement in braking without > "short-life"ing some other component - ??- just saying... > <><><><><><><> <><><><><><><> Stu, I'll suggest the rotor size might have a bit to do with the intended use of the machine. I know I've ridden my KLR in rocks and rough spots and a larger rotor might get dinged. Sometimes if I'm looking at bikes I'll see rotors attached to the rim of the wheel and the caliper is working from the inside of the rotor diameter. I'll bet those brakes work well but would not survive in a "KLR" environment. Best, Jeff Saline The Beautiful Black Hills of South Dakota 75 R90/6, 03 KLR650 . . . . . __________________________________________________________ Odd Trick Fights Diabetes "Unique" Proven Method To Control Blood Sugar In 3 Weeks. Watch Video. http://thirdpartyoffers.juno.com/TGL314 ... 143st02vuc

[Norm Keller]

Sometimes hard to tell whether someone is kidding about motorcycle theory.

 

It was mentioned that one of the factors which produce greater braking effect from a larger diameter rotor, which is the length of the lever or radius from the axle center. From this one can see that a given drag on the pads will have a greater torque effect because the lever is longer. Obvious but there is another effect which might be mentioned.

 

The other effect is the swept area of rotor over which the pads act. A larger diameter rotor has a greater circumference so the pads "travel" further during each rotation. In other words, the pad engages with more disc area per revolution.

 

One could gain the same braking effect by increasing swept area through installing larger caliper and pads onto the same sized to rotor or using a smaller caliper and pads onto a large diameter rotor.

 

The larger rotor is a problem in rough stuff as have been with at least two riders who bent 320 mm rotors and had to ride home with the caliper strapped out of the way.

 

There have been some very effective modifications to the braking, such as the larger (320 mm usually) rotors used with stock calipers, and some use of larger calipers onto 320 mm rotor which is reported to provide another significant gain in braking. We are working with a modification to install a Gen2 rotor (280 mm versus 260 mm) onto a Gen1 wheel and a larger caliper and pads onto the Gen1 fork leg. My machinist friend is frantically busy so the adapter is taking some time. The caliper chosen cannot be placed closely enough to the fork leg to accommodate the Gen1 rotor which is one of the reasons for the rotor swap. Other is that the Gen2 rotor is larger in diameter and thicker so should provide some improvement. They are also inexpensively available and less likely to be dinged than a 320 mm. The larger diameter rotor is not only more exposed because of its larger diameter but also more easily bent because of the increased leverage.

 

Will report when done but for now am reserving judgment in favor of data.

 

FWIW, a significant improvement in braking can be obtained by installing a 250 Ninja master cylinder, available off EBay (new & complete) for about $25.00. Smaller bore size increases hydraulic pressure by about 50%.

[Martin Earl]

Mark,you wrote--snip.OFF Pavement, you AVOID THE FRONT BRAKE.unsnip not to cause a flame war, but I think applying this advice 'as stated' needs some temperance added. = this is not a blanket statement for all levels of skill. Perhaps tempered to those who are inexperienced.Unfortunately, for most, bad judgment is how we gain 'experience'. may I add, OFF Pavement, you AVOID [locking] THE FRONT BRAKE...which is also good advice ON pavement as well.How do you know how much front brake to apply? Experience will teach you that...see para.#1 for experience explanation.If your bike spits you out after applying the front brake (cough), you applied to much. grin.and you just gained some experience. Some where in the past, I once read in a MC magazine article that suggested 60% of your stopping power is in the front brake.Accepting that premise--Avoiding the front brake off payment is giving up 60% of your braking ability. If you are going to give up that much braking ability, then you must ride more than 60% slower, which I doubt is an attribute of those who read this forum. shrug. At least, it is not an attribute of those in my posse. m1

On Sat, Nov 29, 2014 at 9:38 AM, mark ward nomad59@... [DSN_KLR650] DSN_KLR650@yahoogroups.com> wrote: MONEY! If a works, why pay more for B.? Better shock, better seat BETTER etc etc. = MORE $$$$$ The KLR is know as a GREAT, "Base" Start with bike. You get it cheaper, then Most "Specialty" Bikes , and then YOU CAN ADD ON TO THE BASE, And build based on your need$ or De$ire$. More Pavement (HIGHER SPEEDS) Add the Larger Rotor.More DIRT & off road Smaller rotor OR Add a $HIELD to protect against the rocks, (SLOWER STOPPING OR YOU SLIDE!!!) OFF Pavement, you AVOID THE FRONT BRAKE. Even Touch that Fr Brake near loose dirt or SAND And you are in trouble.(Just ask John B. He was Behind me when I DID. OOPS. LOL) On Friday, November 28, 2014 11:04 PM, "Jeff Saline salinej1@... [DSN_KLR650]" DSN_KLR650@yahoogroups.com> wrote: On Fri, 28 Nov 2014 22:13:00 -0500 (EST) "Stu klr650zen@... [DSN_KLR650]" DSN_KLR650@yahoogroups.com> writes: > > Braking leverage - Makes sense - then why aren't all rotors as > large a diameter as they can get away with - rhetorical... if the > same caliper can get a 150% improvement in braking without > "short-life"ing some other component - ??- just saying... > <><><><><><><> <><><><><><><> Stu, I'll suggest the rotor size might have a bit to do with the intended use of the machine. I know I've ridden my KLR in rocks and rough spots and a larger rotor might get dinged. Sometimes if I'm looking at bikes I'll see rotors attached to the rim of the wheel and the caliper is working from the inside of the rotor diameter. I'll bet those brakes work well but would not survive in a "KLR" environment. Best, Jeff Saline The Beautiful Black Hills of South Dakota 75 R90/6, 03 KLR650 . . . . . __________________________________________________________ Odd Trick Fights Diabetes "Unique" Proven Method To Control Blood Sugar In 3 Weeks. Watch Video. http://thirdpartyoffers.juno.com/TGL3141/5479457e310ab457e5143st02vuc

[ron criswell]

A friend of mine put I want to say either DRZ caliphers or V Strom calipers front and rear on his Gen 1. I will find out when I get back in town. He also put a kick starter on his. That would be a nice thing to have. Criswell Sent from my iPhone

On Nov 29, 2014, at 11:24 AM, 'Norm Keller' normkel32@... [DSN_KLR650] DSN_KLR650@yahoogroups.com> wrote:

  Sometimes hard to tell whether someone is kidding about motorcycle theory.   It was mentioned that one of the factors which produce greater braking effect from a larger diameter rotor, which is the length of the lever or radius from the axle center. From this one can see that a given drag on the pads will have a greater torque effect because the lever is longer. Obvious but there is another effect which might be mentioned.   The other effect is the swept area of rotor over which the pads act. A larger diameter rotor has a greater circumference so the pads "travel" further during each rotation. In other words, the pad engages with more disc area per revolution.   One could gain the same braking effect by increasing swept area through installing larger caliper and pads onto the same sized to rotor or using a smaller caliper and pads onto a large diameter rotor.   The larger rotor is a problem in rough stuff as have been with at least two riders who bent 320 mm rotors and had to ride home with the caliper strapped out of the way.   There have been some very effective modifications to the braking, such as the larger (320 mm usually) rotors used with stock calipers, and some use of larger calipers onto 320 mm rotor which is reported to provide another significant gain in braking. We are working with a modification to install a Gen2 rotor (280 mm versus 260 mm) onto a Gen1 wheel and a larger caliper and pads onto the Gen1 fork leg. My machinist friend is frantically busy so the adapter is taking some time. The caliper chosen cannot be placed closely enough to the fork leg to accommodate the Gen1 rotor which is one of the reasons for the rotor swap. Other is that the Gen2 rotor is larger in diameter and thicker so should provide some improvement. They are also inexpensively available and less likely to be dinged than a 320 mm. The larger diameter rotor is not only more exposed because of its larger diameter but also more easily bent because of the increased leverage.   Will report when done but for now am reserving judgment in favor of data.   FWIW, a significant improvement in braking can be obtained by installing a 250 Ninja master cylinder, available off EBay (new & complete) for about $25.00. Smaller bore size increases hydraulic pressure by about 50%.

[Martin Earl]

Ron,I will put a kick starter on my KLR if you will ride with me and do the kicking. cough....not just kick start the bike...what I really want you to do is pick up the bike when it takes a nap and change the flats. eh?revmaaatin.

On Sat, Nov 29, 2014 at 10:38 AM, Ron Criswell roncriswell2@... [DSN_KLR650] DSN_KLR650@yahoogroups.com> wrote: A friend of mine put I want to say either DRZ caliphers or V Strom calipers front and rear on his Gen 1. I will find out when I get back in town. He also put a kick starter on his. That would be a nice thing to have. Criswell Sent from my iPhone On Nov 29, 2014, at 11:24 AM, 'Norm Keller' normkel32@... [DSN_KLR650] DSN_KLR650@yahoogroups.com> wrote: Sometimes hard to tell whether someone is kidding about motorcycle theory. It was mentioned that one of the factors which produce greater braking effect from a larger diameter rotor, which is the length of the lever or radius from the axle center. From this one can see that a given drag on the pads will have a greater torque effect because the lever is longer. Obvious but there is another effect which might be mentioned. The other effect is the swept area of rotor over which the pads act. A larger diameter rotor has a greater circumference so the pads "travel" further during each rotation. In other words, the pad engages with more disc area per revolution. One could gain the same braking effect by increasing swept area through installing larger caliper and pads onto the same sized to rotor or using a smaller caliper and pads onto a large diameter rotor. The larger rotor is a problem in rough stuff as have been with at least two riders who bent 320 mm rotors and had to ride home with the caliper strapped out of the way. There have been some very effective modifications to the braking, such as the larger (320 mm usually) rotors used with stock calipers, and some use of larger calipers onto 320 mm rotor which is reported to provide another significant gain in braking. We are working with a modification to install a Gen2 rotor (280 mm versus 260 mm) onto a Gen1 wheel and a larger caliper and pads onto the Gen1 fork leg. My machinist friend is frantically busy so the adapter is taking some time. The caliper chosen cannot be placed closely enough to the fork leg to accommodate the Gen1 rotor which is one of the reasons for the rotor swap. Other is that the Gen2 rotor is larger in diameter and thicker so should provide some improvement. They are also inexpensively available and less likely to be dinged than a 320 mm. The larger diameter rotor is not only more exposed because of its larger diameter but also more easily bent because of the increased leverage. Will report when done but for now am reserving judgment in favor of data. FWIW, a significant improvement in braking can be obtained by installing a 250 Ninja master cylinder, available off EBay (new & complete) for about $25.00. Smaller bore size increases hydraulic pressure by about 50%.

[ron criswell]

Actually Rev., his kicks off pretty easily. A friend was riding in Moab by himself 40 miles away from civilization. He stopped to take a photo. Click dead battery. Luckily he was on a hill and just rolled down and roll started it. I like your flat skills (heh). Criswell Sent from my iPhone

On Nov 29, 2014, at 11:45 AM, Martin Earl wrote:

Ron,I will put a kick starter on my KLR if you will ride with me and do the kicking. cough....not just kick start the bike...what I really want you to do is pick up the bike when it takes a nap and change the flats. eh?revmaaatin. On Sat, Nov 29, 2014 at 10:38 AM, Ron Criswell roncriswell2@... [DSN_KLR650] DSN_KLR650@yahoogroups.com> wrote: A friend of mine put I want to say either DRZ caliphers or V Strom calipers front and rear on his Gen 1. I will find out when I get back in town. He also put a kick starter on his. That would be a nice thing to have. Criswell Sent from my iPhone On Nov 29, 2014, at 11:24 AM, 'Norm Keller' normkel32@... [DSN_KLR650] DSN_KLR650@yahoogroups.com> wrote:   Sometimes hard to tell whether someone is kidding about motorcycle theory.   It was mentioned that one of the factors which produce greater braking effect from a larger diameter rotor, which is the length of the lever or radius from the axle center. From this one can see that a given drag on the pads will have a greater torque effect because the lever is longer. Obvious but there is another effect which might be mentioned.   The other effect is the swept area of rotor over which the pads act. A larger diameter rotor has a greater circumference so the pads "travel" further during each rotation. In other words, the pad engages with more disc area per revolution.   One could gain the same braking effect by increasing swept area through installing larger caliper and pads onto the same sized to rotor or using a smaller caliper and pads onto a large diameter rotor.   The larger rotor is a problem in rough stuff as have been with at least two riders who bent 320 mm rotors and had to ride home with the caliper strapped out of the way.   There have been some very effective modifications to the braking, such as the larger (320 mm usually) rotors used with stock calipers, and some use of larger calipers onto 320 mm rotor which is reported to provide another significant gain in braking. We are working with a modification to install a Gen2 rotor (280 mm versus 260 mm) onto a Gen1 wheel and a larger caliper and pads onto the Gen1 fork leg. My machinist friend is frantically busy so the adapter is taking some time. The caliper chosen cannot be placed closely enough to the fork leg to accommodate the Gen1 rotor which is one of the reasons for the rotor swap. Other is that the Gen2 rotor is larger in diameter and thicker so should provide some improvement. They are also inexpensively available and less likely to be dinged than a 320 mm. The larger diameter rotor is not only more exposed because of its larger diameter but also more easily bent because of the increased leverage.   Will report when done but for now am reserving judgment in favor of data.   FWIW, a significant improvement in braking can be obtained by installing a 250 Ninja master cylinder, available off EBay (new & complete) for about $25.00. Smaller bore size increases hydraulic pressure by about 50%.

[Norm Keller]

#ygrps-yiv-299298671 blockquote.ygrps-yiv-299298671cite {margin-left:5px;margin-right:0px;padding-left:10px;padding-right:0px;border-left:1px solid #cccccc;} #ygrps-yiv-299298671 blockquote.ygrps-yiv-299298671cite2 {margin-left:5px;margin-right:0px;padding-left:10px;padding-right:0px;border-left:1px solid #cccccc;margin-top:3px;padding-top:0px;} #ygrps-yiv-299298671 .ygrps-yiv-299298671plain pre, #ygrps-yiv-299298671 .ygrps-yiv-299298671plain tt {font-family:monospace;font-size:100%;font-weight:normal;font-style:normal;} #ygrps-yiv-299298671 a img {border:0px;}#ygrps-yiv-299298671 {font-family:Tahoma;font-size:12pt;} #ygrps-yiv-299298671 .ygrps-yiv-299298671plain pre, #ygrps-yiv-299298671 .ygrps-yiv-299298671plain tt {font-family:Tahoma;font-size:12pt;} Thanks, Ron!   All information is of interest.   Has anyone else installed a Ninja 250 master cylinder? I've done at least two with great results.   http://www.ebay.com/itm/7-8-Front-Right-Brake-Lever-Master-Cylinder-for-Kawasaki-Ninja-250-500-R-ZX10R-/370886528553?pt=Motorcycles_Parts_Accessories&hash=item565a8f4e29&vxp=mtr    

[Buddy Eckles]

Mark,you wrote--snip.OFF Pavement, you AVOID THE FRONT BRAKE.unsnip not to cause a flame war, but I think applying this advice  'as stated' needs some temperance added. = this is not a blanket statement for all levels of skill.  Perhaps tempered to those who are inexperienced.Unfortunately, for most, bad judgment is how we gain 'experience'. may I add, OFF Pavement, you AVOID [locking] THE FRONT BRAKE...which is also good advice ON pavement as well.How do you know how much front brake to apply?  Experience will teach you that...see para.#1 for experience explanation.If your bike spits you out after applying the front brake (cough), you applied to much. grin.and you just gained some experience. Some where in the past, I once read in a MC magazine article that suggested 60% of your stopping power is in the front brake.Accepting that premise--Avoiding the front brake off payment is giving up 60% of your braking ability. If you are going to give up that much braking ability, then you must ride more than 60% slower, which I doubt is an attribute of those who read this forum. shrug. At least, it is not an attribute of those in my posse.   m1

On Sat, Nov 29, 2014 at 9:38 AM, mark ward nomad59@... [DSN_KLR650] DSN_KLR650@yahoogroups.com> wrote: MONEY!  If a works, why pay more for B.? Better shock, better seat BETTER etc etc. = MORE $$$$$ The KLR is know as a GREAT, "Base" Start with bike. You get it cheaper, then Most "Specialty" Bikes , and then YOU CAN ADD ON TO THE BASE, And build based on your need$ or De$ire$.  More Pavement (HIGHER SPEEDS) Add the Larger Rotor.More DIRT & off road Smaller rotor OR Add a $HIELD to protect against the rocks, (SLOWER STOPPING OR YOU SLIDE!!!) OFF Pavement, you AVOID THE FRONT BRAKE. Even Touch that Fr Brake near loose dirt or SAND And you are in trouble.(Just ask John B. He was Behind me when I DID. OOPS. LOL) On Friday, November 28, 2014 11:04 PM, "Jeff Saline salinej1@... [DSN_KLR650]" DSN_KLR650@yahoogroups.com> wrote:   On Fri, 28 Nov 2014 22:13:00 -0500 (EST) "Stu klr650zen@... [DSN_KLR650]" DSN_KLR650@yahoogroups.com> writes: > > Braking leverage - Makes sense - then why aren't all rotors as > large a diameter as they can get away with - rhetorical... if the > same caliper can get a 150% improvement in braking without > "short-life"ing some other component - ??- just saying... > <><><><><><><> <><><><><><><> Stu, I'll suggest the rotor size might have a bit to do with the intended use of the machine. I know I've ridden my KLR in rocks and rough spots and a larger rotor might get dinged. Sometimes if I'm looking at bikes I'll see rotors attached to the rim of the wheel and the caliper is working from the inside of the rotor diameter. I'll bet those brakes work well but would not survive in a "KLR" environment. Best, Jeff Saline The Beautiful Black Hills of South Dakota 75 R90/6, 03 KLR650 . . . . . __________________________________________________________ Odd Trick Fights Diabetes "Unique" Proven Method To Control Blood Sugar In 3 Weeks. Watch Video. http://thirdpartyoffers.juno.com/TGL3141/5479457e310ab457e5143st02vuc