carb vent t mod

DSN_KLR650
Post Reply
mark ward
Posts: 1027
Joined: Fri Jan 15, 2010 11:18 am

bad battery - why wouldn't it catch when the lights were on and

Post by mark ward » Wed Feb 10, 2010 10:33 pm

I would want to put the old battery in and try again! GAS or OTHER Electrical ISSUE and coincidence????[img]https://ec.yimg.com/ec?url=http%3A%2F%2 ... MQ5MyQ--~E[/img] [b]From:[/b] Daniel [b]To:[/b] DSN_KLR650@yahoogroups.com [b]Sent:[/b] Wed, February 10, 2010 9:41:36 PM [b]Subject:[/b] [DSN_KLR650] Bad Battery - why wouldn't it catch when the lights were on and it cranked?   Hi all, I just replaced the battery in my bike and I have a question about the diagnosis. It threw me, and the job took longer than it should have. Symptoms: - With ignition on, the lights seemed fully bright and the engine turned over strongly when I hit the starter - That said, the engine just wouldn't catch and keep on going by itself without the start button pressed. Choke position didn't matter. - With the spark plug out, connected to the lead, and grounded to the engine, it showed a spark when the engine was being started - Battery read as high as 12.3V at one point, but eventually maxed out at 11.8V and wouldn't go higher - Liquid level in the battery was in the right range Eventual solution: - New battery. Starts up just fine. If the battery was dead, why didn't the lights stay off and the engine not crank over with the start button? If the battery had enough juice in it to generate a spark and power the lights and starter, I would have expected the engine turning over to provide enough energy to charge the coil and keep it going. I don't get it and I'd like to, so I'd appreciate your help. On a related note, do I have to plug or remove the black rubber tube for the acid overflow now that I've switched to AGM? By the way, I bought the Deka ETX15L from Tri-state for $66.95 shipped: http://www.tristate battery.com/ product_info. php?products_ id=977 Thanks, Daniel Daniel Pifko Greatest Road Software Greatest Road iPhone/iPod touch app for motorcyclists - find the best roads based on recommendations from other bikers Check it out at http://greatestroad.com
Top
Daniel
Posts: 89
Joined: Mon Sep 26, 2011 10:36 am

bad battery - why wouldn't it catch when the lights were on and

Post by Daniel » Wed Feb 10, 2010 10:50 pm

I don't think it's coincidence. I tried too many other things, including the old battery (charged to the extent I could) right before I ordered the new battery. No love. Since it -was- turning over I thought it might have been gas too, but I did the following: - took the bowl off the carb, took out and cleaned the jets and valve. --> No difference. Swore at bike. No difference. - took off the tank, took apart and cleaned the petcock valve --> No difference. Swore at bike. No difference. - sprayed starter spray into the airbox after removing the air filter --> No difference. Swore at bike. No difference. As soon as I put the new battery in it started up on the first try. Daniel
--- In DSN_KLR650@yahoogroups.com, mark ward wrote: > > I would want to put the old battery in and try again! > GAS or OTHER Electrical ISSUE and coincidence???? >
Top
Jeff Saline
Posts: 2246
Joined: Fri Oct 10, 2003 6:02 pm

bad battery - why wouldn't it catch when the lights were on and

Post by Jeff Saline » Wed Feb 10, 2010 11:02 pm

On Thu, 11 Feb 2010 02:41:36 -0000 "Daniel" writes:
> Hi all, > > I just replaced the battery in my bike and I have a question about > the diagnosis. It threw me, and the job took longer than it should > have. > > Symptoms: > > - With ignition on, the lights seemed fully bright and the engine > turned over strongly when I hit the starter > > - That said, the engine just wouldn't catch and keep on going by > itself without the start button pressed. Choke position didn't > matter. > > - With the spark plug out, connected to the lead, and grounded to > the engine, it showed a spark when the engine was being started > > - Battery read as high as 12.3V at one point, but eventually maxed > out at 11.8V and wouldn't go higher > > - Liquid level in the battery was in the right range > > Eventual solution: > > - New battery. Starts up just fine. > > If the battery was dead, why didn't the lights stay off and the > engine not crank over with the start button? If the battery had > enough juice in it to generate a spark and power the lights and > starter, I would have expected the engine turning over to provide > enough energy to charge the coil and keep it going. I don't get it > and I'd like to, so I'd appreciate your help. > > On a related note, do I have to plug or remove the black rubber tube > for the acid overflow now that I've switched to AGM? > > By the way, I bought the Deka ETX15L from Tri-state for $66.95 > shipped: > http://www.tristatebattery.com/product_info.php?products_id=977 > > Thanks, > > Daniel > > Daniel Pifko
<><><><><><><> <><><><><><><> Daniel, A fully charged battery should read 12.65 volts or better. Your battery at 12.3 volts was only at about 65% charged. Your 11.8 volt reading was a dead battery. I'm gonna guess your engine wasn't turning fast enough to start. The battery isn't needed on the older KLRs to make a spark. You don't say what year bike you own and I'm not familiar enough with the 2008 and later bikes to know if the ignition works the same way. Again I'm gonna make a guess that with the new, fully charged battery installed the difference that allowed your engine to start was cranking speed. I don't think you have a need for the acid overflow hose but if you wanted to leave it on the bike I don't think it would hurt anything. Below is a paragraph and chart I sent to the list in 2008. I got it from a guy in Colorado who's involved with BMW airheads. <><><><><><> This is from Solar Today; a magazine aimed at those "off the grid". Seems to fit with our current (and perennial) discussion of batteries and charging systems. You do need a digital voltmeter, the readings are at 70 degrees F and are for lead-acid batteries. You want to wait about 15 minutes or more after charging the battery or running the bike to allow the "surface charge" to disappate. I put this table on a little card and keep it with the VOM. Percent Voltage of charge: Reading: 100% 12.63 90% 12.54 80% 12.45 70% 12.36 60% 12.27 50% 12.18 40% 12.09 30% 12.00 20% 11.91 0% 11.82 <><><><><><> Best, Jeff Saline ABC # 4412 South Dakota Airmarshal Airheads Beemer Club www.airheads.org The Beautiful Black Hills of South Dakota 75 R90/6, 03 KLR650, 79 R100RT . ____________________________________________________________ Small Business Tools Compete with the big boys. Click here to find products to benefit your business. http://thirdpartyoffers.juno.com/TGL2141/c?cp=0YT5gTKPLafXNlvMX1N8JgAAJ1DWfJIDP-R0_NC3mMpGFS0kAAYAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAADNAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAARMQAAAAA=
Top
Daniel
Posts: 89
Joined: Mon Sep 26, 2011 10:36 am

bad battery - why wouldn't it catch when the lights were on and

Post by Daniel » Wed Feb 10, 2010 11:13 pm

Hi Jeff, It's a 2008, California model.
> I'm gonna guess your engine wasn't turning fast enough to start. The > battery isn't needed on the older KLRs to make a spark. You don't say > what year bike you own and I'm not familiar enough with the 2008 and > later bikes to know if the ignition works the same way.
Speed could be it. I tried bump starting it down the hill but may not have been going fast enough.
> A fully charged battery should read 12.65 volts or better. Your battery > at 12.3 volts was only at about 65% charged. Your 11.8 volt reading was > a dead battery.
Agreed. I'm just a little surprised that a dead battery still made the lights go on. I've had other batteries go bad (on another bike) but the bike was completely DOA and the battery was an obvious conclusion.
> Percent Voltage > of charge: Reading: > > 100% 12.63 > 90% 12.54 > 80% 12.45 > 70% 12.36 > 60% 12.27 > 50% 12.18 > 40% 12.09 > 30% 12.00 > 20% 11.91 > 0% 11.82
This chart just came with my new battery. Close enough to yours to get the point: Percent Voltage of charge: Reading: 100% 12.80 or greater 75% 12.60 50% 12.30 20% 12.00 0% 11.80 Thanks for the help, Daniel
--- In DSN_KLR650@yahoogroups.com, Jeff Saline wrote:
Top
Jud
Posts: 570
Joined: Tue Sep 22, 2009 7:52 pm

bad battery - why wouldn't it catch when the lights were on and

Post by Jud » Thu Feb 11, 2010 10:34 am

You battery may not have been bad, but it was partially discharged, which triggered an anomalous condition in the start relay whereby low current somehow causes the relay to stick in the on position. Fred explained it to me once when it happened to me a few years back, but I didn't fully understand it at the time. A fresh charge on the battery set it right, and it has never happened to me again. That said, a charge sufficient to light the lights is not necessarily enough to get those electrons spinning fast enough to start the engine. More than once I have been unable to start the bike from a weakly-charged battery, even though the horn honked and the lights lit up.
--- In DSN_KLR650@yahoogroups.com, "Daniel" wrote: > > Hi all, > > I just replaced the battery in my bike and I have a question about the diagnosis. It threw me, and the job took longer than it should have. > > Symptoms: > > - With ignition on, the lights seemed fully bright and the engine turned over strongly when I hit the starter > > - That said, the engine just wouldn't catch and keep on going by itself without the start button pressed. Choke position didn't matter. > > - With the spark plug out, connected to the lead, and grounded to the engine, it showed a spark when the engine was being started > > - Battery read as high as 12.3V at one point, but eventually maxed out at 11.8V and wouldn't go higher > > - Liquid level in the battery was in the right range > > Eventual solution: > > - New battery. Starts up just fine. > > If the battery was dead, why didn't the lights stay off and the engine not crank over with the start button? If the battery had enough juice in it to generate a spark and power the lights and starter, I would have expected the engine turning over to provide enough energy to charge the coil and keep it going. I don't get it and I'd like to, so I'd appreciate your help. > > On a related note, do I have to plug or remove the black rubber tube for the acid overflow now that I've switched to AGM? > > By the way, I bought the Deka ETX15L from Tri-state for $66.95 shipped: http://www.tristatebattery.com/product_info.php?products_id=977 > > Thanks, > > Daniel > > Daniel Pifko > Greatest Road Software > > Greatest Road iPhone/iPod touch app for motorcyclists - find the best roads based on recommendations from other bikers > Check it out at http://greatestroad.com >
Top
The Reverend
Posts: 101
Joined: Sat Jun 12, 2004 9:14 pm

bad battery - why wouldn't it catch when the lights were on and

Post by The Reverend » Fri Feb 19, 2010 11:59 pm

A dead battery to the bike might look mighty alive to you. The KLR is sensitive to cranking speed, so you really need a good battery to get the bad boy to start. Even if it cranks at a seemingly good speed, you simply need more to actually catch and run. Couple that with ancient and outdated carb technology, and an always-on headlight (from factory) and you have a machine that is hard on a regular battery. You didn't mention what your CRANKING voltage was, but I'd guess you could desulfate the bad battery and bring it back to life, if you care. A new Odyssey is what, $130? So it's not really worth your time etc, but if you're nerdy enough... :) -----Original Message----- From: DSN_KLR650@yahoogroups.com [mailto:DSN_KLR650@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Daniel If the battery was dead, why didn't the lights stay off and the engine not crank over with the start button? If the battery had enough juice in it to generate a spark and power the lights and starter, I would have expected the engine turning over to provide enough energy to charge the coil and keep it going. I don't get it and I'd like to, so I'd appreciate your help.
Top
mark ward
Posts: 1027
Joined: Fri Jan 15, 2010 11:18 am

bad battery - why wouldn't it catch when the lights were on and

Post by mark ward » Sat Feb 20, 2010 8:40 am