doohickey/frame fasteners etc.

[CA Stu]

Went to the IMS Motorcycle Show in Long Beach on Sunday, bought a new gold mirrored faceshield for my Arai Quantum, the guy at the booth asks me if it is a /e or and /f model. I told him it's an /f, and he says "Well, if it was an /e model, I'd advise you to think about replacing it." (because of its age). My questions is this: What is the useful life on a helmet? I think my Arai (turns out it is a Quantum /e) has a few more years left in it. I bought it in '99, but it has always been stored inside, in a temperature controlled environment, out of the sunlight. I can see if a helmet is left outside in International Falls all winter and Death Valley all summer, it may degrade in a hurry, but after living the good life, I can't see replacing a helmet after just 5 years... Am I wrong? Thanks CA Stu

[Eric L. Green]

On Wed, 8 Dec 2004, CA Stu wrote:

> I can see if a helmet is left outside in International Falls all > winter and Death Valley all summer, it may degrade in a hurry, but > after living the good life, I can't see replacing a helmet after just > 5 years... > Am I wrong?

In the old days, this was an easy one to answer. All helmets used a particular type of dense polystyrene as their active element for absorbing blows. This polystyrene slowly degraded and became brittle as it outgassed and oxidized. Thus the recommendation to replace after five years -- by that time the outgassing and oxidation had gotten to the point where it was impairing the ability of the polystyrene to absorb blows. This is probably still true of cheap helmets today. However, with all the space-age materials going into high end helmet shells and liners, I'd suggest contacting the helmet manufacturer, who has a better idea of how the particular materials in their helmet age. Given that Arai's *warranty* is 5 years, I'd seriously doubt that a 5 year old Arai is ready for the junkyard... but the folks at Arai are the only ones who can tell you for sure. -E

[Lujo Bauer]

I've usually heard 5-6 years being mentioned as the usable life of a helmet. After that the foam inside, which is critical in absorbing impact, may or may not be in good enough shape to dissipate the desired amount of energy. -Lujo CA Stu wrote:

> > Went to the IMS Motorcycle Show in Long Beach on Sunday, bought a new > gold mirrored faceshield for my Arai Quantum, the guy at the booth > asks me if it is a /e or and /f model. I told him it's an /f, and he > says "Well, if it was an /e model, I'd advise you to think about > replacing it." (because of its age). > > My questions is this: What is the useful life on a helmet? > > I think my Arai (turns out it is a Quantum /e) has a few more years > left in it. I bought it in '99, but it has always been stored inside, > in a temperature controlled environment, out of the sunlight. > > I can see if a helmet is left outside in International Falls all > winter and Death Valley all summer, it may degrade in a hurry, but > after living the good life, I can't see replacing a helmet after just > 5 years... > > Am I wrong? > > Thanks > CA Stu >

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

[Kelley Kinser]

I know that for our work helmets it is 3-5 years. That is more than the average helmet gets used though since we use them all day, year round. Kelley......... __________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? Take Yahoo! Mail with you! Get it on your mobile phone. http://mobile.yahoo.com/maildemo

[Mike Frey]

How long do motorcycle helmets last? Five to Ten years or longer. Dissertation from a plastics engineer (me) follows... The principal enemies of your helmet are: 1) Impacts - not just dropping it on the ground, other than repeated drops - if your helmet cracks or breaks because it fell off of your seat in a parking lot, do you think it was that good to begin with? 2) UV degradation (sunlight) 3) Chemical attack (gasoline, solvents, etc.) Using your helmet will reduce its protection capability over time. A fairly long time: 5-10 years. Your head gives off chemicals (sorry guys and gals) that will attack the inside of the helmet. As far as what they are made out of, that information is readily available from various sources. They are not much different now than they were 10 or even 20 years ago. (Kevlar and Carbon Fiber composites come to mind for the newest and most expensive ones). Newer ones are definitely better, due to improvements in design, testing, and materials. Almost all helmets still use expanded polystyrene foam underneath the pretty exterior, and modern processes use inert gases to create the foam, so that part doesn't self-destruct on its own, either. If you bought a new helmet in 1994 and put it in your closet, left it there for 10 years, then finally took it out and started using it, then it is as good as it was back then. The materials that they are made from take a very long time to degrade due to normal environmental elements in your house. 10, 20, 50 years. Possibly more. Store it in the dark, in a vacuum, at a constant 70 F, and I say the helmet would still be the same 100 years later. Beyond that, who cares? I have a 1997 Shoei RF-R that I bought "new" 2 years ago, and to me, it's a 2-year old helmet. I have no fear of it being "old" when I am wearing it. I actually own several RF-R's because I was given a whole bunch of shields for free from the USA Company who makes them for Shoei (it used to be me who made them, for earlier models). Despite the above, I like the fit and feel of HJC and KBC helmets better. But I digress... Your helmet is good for at least 5 years of use, unless you crash with it, spill some solvent in or on it that attacks it, wash it a lot (cleaners are solvents), or you leave it outside in the sunshine for a year or more. Or, you never take it off of your head. You will usually see things that are indicators that it's time to replace your helmet. On the outside, dings from many bumps or drops. On the inside, worn padding or foam falling out. If you take reasonably good care of your helmet, the first thing you'll notice is worn straps, worn pads that touch your head, and the foam immediately underneath changes consistency. If your helmet is 10 years old and still looks good inside and out, it s probably still a good helmet. I have a 1975 Shoei S-12 Full-Face helmet. Although I don't wear it, if given the choice between that and no helmet at all, I would wear it. (I am guilty of occasional short rides with no helmet) Whatever helmet you have, wear it. Wear it out. Then get another one.

[kdxkawboy@aol.com]

In a message dated 2004-12-08 3:30:33 PM Pacific Standard Time, kelley_kinser@... writes:

> > I know that for our work helmets it is 3-5 > years. That is more than the average helmet gets > used though since we use them all day, year > round. > > Kelley......... > >

Being mounted officer I'm sure your department is following the Snell foundation's recommendation. They are constantly testing donated helmets, and their certification program requires the manufacturer to provide aged samples, and they claim their findings show a helmet's integrity falls off after five years, causing the helmet to fail the Snell test. They state all the little dings in the polystyrene liner reduces its effectiveness in a crash. They also state all the little dings and flexing that the shell takes over time starts to break down the bonding between layers as well as between the fibers of some layers. For myself, I trust the Snell standards and recommendations. I've always replaced my helmet every fourth or fifth year based on their recommendation and have built the cost into my maintenance budget. Pat G'ville, Nv [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

[sdheaslet]

If there is no disclaimer on the warranty, I go by smell. I just held my old helmet to the nose of my new wife, and she says it's time for a replacement. She then asked if this was something I wanted for a holiday gift. I love her. The reason this is not NKLR is because this might be an interesting legal question. If somebody gets splattered, and there's no specific warrant re materials integrity or longevity, what does that mean? Sniff. Stuart

--- In DSN_klr650@yahoogroups.com, "CA Stu" wrote: > > Went to the IMS Motorcycle Show in Long Beach on Sunday, bought a new > gold mirrored faceshield for my Arai Quantum, the guy at the booth > asks me if it is a /e or and /f model. I told him it's an /f, and he > says "Well, if it was an /e model, I'd advise you to think about > replacing it." (because of its age). > > My questions is this: What is the useful life on a helmet? > > I think my Arai (turns out it is a Quantum /e) has a few more years > left in it. I bought it in '99, but it has always been stored inside, > in a temperature controlled environment, out of the sunlight. > > I can see if a helmet is left outside in International Falls all > winter and Death Valley all summer, it may degrade in a hurry, but > after living the good life, I can't see replacing a helmet after just > 5 years... > > Am I wrong? > > Thanks > CA Stu

[Mike Frey]

sdheaslet wrote:

>If there is no disclaimer on the warranty, I go by smell. I just >held my old helmet to the nose of my new wife, and she says it's time >for a replacement. >

That works, too! It simplifies my long essay from last night: Helmet looks OK and smells OK -----> Keep Helmet has funky smell, is damaged or visibly worn -----> Replace

[azman321]

The industry standard line is 5 year life. After that, the polystyrene foam, which is the important part, has lost it's ability to perform, and the helmet should be taken out of service. It's not related to the external shell. Also, the helmet can handle one impact only. If it's in a crash, or even falls on to a hard surface, it should be taken out of service. As to how hard of impact this is, I don't know. (Of course, I don't care if people use their helmets longer, but that's what the helmet-selling industry says.) Jett ...

> I can see if a helmet is left outside in International Falls all > winter and Death Valley all summer, it may degrade in a hurry, but > after living the good life, I can't see replacing a helmet after

just

> 5 years... > > Am I wrong? > > Thanks > CA Stu

[Fig]

azman321 wrote:

>(Of course, I don't care if people use their helmets longer, but >that's what the helmet-selling industry says.) > >Jett > > >

Yeah, there are no vested interests there. They wouldn't maintain that stance to sell more helmets, now would they? Oh, wait... -Fig