on centerstands

[Keith Saltzer]

So Bill and I worked on his KLR for quite a while today and we are stumped, stupified and sick of racking our brains. We need the help of the almighty KLR list! SYMPTOMS He was riding along at a moderate city speed and it just stumbled twice and quit. That's it. It hasn't started since. He hasn't had any work done on it lately and he rides it just about every single day problem free and has never had the thing NOT start. What we have done. Checked the fuel tank. Half full. Checked that the petcock was operating correctly by hooking up another vacuum and fuel line and I sucked on the vacuum hose. Fuel came out immediately. Checked that there was fuel in the float bowl by opening up the drain screw. Alot of fuel came out. Checked that the fuel was flowing through the clear fuel filter as we were cranking on the starter. Checked for spark with the plug out many many times. Checked the plug wire connections at the coil and spark plug boot. Checked the plug wire. Checked the choke cable. Checked the oil level. That was very low, below the bottom of the window. Bill was surprised at that. Checked the filter. It was dirty but not clogged solid. We cranked the motor till his old battery pretty much died so we then threw in a brand new one out of another bike that was there. It would just crank and crank and crank. We heard occasional soft backfires on some of the cranking sprees. We could smell fuel coming out of the muffler. We plugged in another rectifier that was there too, just cause we could. Nothing. We pulled the valve cover off and checked the cam chain, timing of the cams, and checked the valves too. Only the left intake was on the tight side just out of spec. Twice, we poured a little fuel in the spark plug hole and put the plug and tank back on and cranked it. Nothing. We scratched our heads and made concerning faces. THAT didn't help. We checked for loose wires. The lights all work, we have spark, we have fuel in the carb, and the thing cranks like an old chrysler with vapor lock on a hot day. We are going nuts. Any ideas?? The only thing that I can think of now is that something is clogged in the carb. But I can't believe that something could get in there while riding and just shut the whole thing down right now and not let it start again. I'm really determined to figure this thing out and need your help guys! MrMoose and Bill

[Guy B. Young II - COG Tech Ed]

Keith, If all of that is like you say it is, I'd pull the LH cover to make sure the flywheel hasn't come loose and 'jumped time.' Guy -----Original Message----- From: Keith Saltzer Sent: Jun 8, 2004 1:53 AM To: DSN_klr650@yahoogroups.com Subject: [DSN_klr650] 3 hours and still can't get it started???????????????? So Bill and I worked on his KLR for quite a while today and we are stumped, stupified and sick of racking our brains. We need the help of the almighty KLR list!

[kdxkawboy@aol.com]

In a message dated 2004-06-07 10:55:09 PM Pacific Daylight Time, k.saltzer@... writes:

> > He was riding along at a moderate city speed and it just stumbled > twice and quit. That's it. It hasn't started since. He hasn't had > any work done on it lately and he rides it just about every single > day problem free and has never had the thing NOT start. > > > What we have done. > > > Checked the fuel tank. Half full. > Checked that the petcock was operating correctly by hooking up > another vacuum and fuel line and I sucked on the vacuum hose. Fuel > came out immediately. > Checked that there was fuel in the float bowl by opening up the drain > screw. Alot of fuel came out. > Checked that the fuel was flowing through the clear fuel filter as we > were cranking on the starter. > Checked for spark with the plug out many many times. > > Checked the plug wire connections at the coil and spark plug boot. > Checked the plug wire. > Checked the choke cable. > Checked the oil level. That was very low, below the bottom of the > window. Bill was surprised at that. > Checked the filter. It was dirty but not clogged solid. > We cranked the motor till his old battery pretty much died so we then > threw in a brand new one out of another bike that was there. It > would just crank and crank and crank. We heard occasional soft > backfires on some of the cranking sprees. We could smell fuel coming > out of the muffler. > We plugged in another rectifier that was there too, just cause we > could. Nothing. We pulled the valve cover off and checked the cam > chain, timing of the cams, and checked the valves too. Only the left > intake was on the tight side just out of spec. Twice, we poured a > little fuel in the spark plug hole and put the plug and tank back on > and cranked it. Nothing. We scratched our heads and made concerning > faces. THAT didn't help. We checked for loose wires. > > The lights all work, we have spark, we have fuel in the carb, and the > thing cranks like an old chrysler with vapor lock on a hot day. We > are going nuts. Any ideas?? > > The only thing that I can think of now is that something is clogged > in the carb. But I can't believe that something could get in there > while riding and just shut the whole thing down right now and not let > it start again. I'm really determined to figure this thing out and > need your help guys! > > MrMoose and Bill > >

Everything you've tried has me thinking gas is not the problem. It is either the timing of the spark, or the spark is breaking down under compression. I would be suspicious of the ignition system. Be checking the timing pickup, coil and black box, perhaps swapping parts between your bike and Bill's to confirm. Pat G'ville, Nv [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

[Devon]

k.saltzer@... wrote:

> >The lights all work, we have spark, we have fuel in the carb, and the >thing cranks like an old chrysler with vapor lock on a hot day. >

There's your clue right there- Any chance Bill has a jet kit fitted? If you have spark, and you have fuel (smell it out the tailpipe), and you have compression (was running "a minute ago"), the only thing in my experience is a mixture so rich that it prevents a proper spark. Clean the air filter, turn the idle mix screw to 1.5 turns out, double check that the choke cable is fully returning, and see what happens. Devon

[Devon]

gbyoung2@... wrote:

>Keith, > >If all of that is like you say it is, I'd pull the LH cover to make sure the flywheel hasn't come loose and 'jumped time.' >

Where's the woodruff key if that happened? A timing problem is a logical question, but I can't imagine that havoc that a loose rotor would cause. Devon

[monahanwb]

--- In DSN_klr650@yahoogroups.com, Devon wrote:

> > > gbyoung2@m... wrote: > > >Keith, > > > >If all of that is like you say it is, I'd pull the LH cover to

make sure the flywheel hasn't come loose and 'jumped time.'

> > > > Where's the woodruff key if that happened? A timing problem is a

logical

> question, but I can't imagine that havoc that a loose rotor would

cause.

> > Devon

I was on the right hand side watching the cams turn, and we took out the crank plugs on the left, and I believe Keith saw the TDC mark come up at just the right time. Wouldn't that indicate the rotor is on correctly? The bike run just fine for a long time until it sputtered and died yesterday, but has not fired since.

[Gregory Roberts]

---------- Original Message ---------------------------------- From: Devon

> >gbyoung2@... wrote: > >>Keith, >> >>If all of that is like you say it is, I'd pull the LH cover to make sure the flywheel hasn't come loose and 'jumped time.' >> > >Where's the woodruff key if that happened? A timing problem is a logical >question, but I can't imagine that havoc that a loose rotor would cause. > >Devon

I've slipped time before on a dirt bike. If the flywheel (rotor) didn't get properly snugged down, or for some reason loosened up just a tad, that's all it take for the rotor to slip, partially (or totally) shearing the key. Woodruff key would still be in the slot on the crankshaft and slot on the rotor, but it would probably be in two pieces. I had it happen to me on my old Yamaha IT-175 about 400 yards into an enduro. Greg Roberts ________________________________________________________________ Sent via the WebMail system at netcommander.com

[Arden Kysely]

I think Pat's on the right track, but the first thing I'd try is a new spark plug. __Arden

--- In DSN_klr650@yahoogroups.com, kdxkawboy@a... wrote: > In a message dated 2004-06-07 10:55:09 PM Pacific Daylight Time, > k.saltzer@c... writes: > > > > > He was riding along at a moderate city speed and it just stumbled > > twice and quit. That's it. It hasn't started since. He hasn't had > > any work done on it lately and he rides it just about every single > > day problem free and has never had the thing NOT start. > > > > > > What we have done. > > > > > > Checked the fuel tank. Half full. > > Checked that the petcock was operating correctly by hooking up > > another vacuum and fuel line and I sucked on the vacuum hose. Fuel > > came out immediately. > > Checked that there was fuel in the float bowl by opening up the drain > > screw. Alot of fuel came out. > > Checked that the fuel was flowing through the clear fuel filter as we > > were cranking on the starter. > > Checked for spark with the plug out many many times. > > > > Checked the plug wire connections at the coil and spark plug boot. > > Checked the plug wire. > > Checked the choke cable. > > Checked the oil level. That was very low, below the bottom of the > > window. Bill was surprised at that. > > Checked the filter. It was dirty but not clogged solid. > > We cranked the motor till his old battery pretty much died so we then > > threw in a brand new one out of another bike that was there. It > > would just crank and crank and crank. We heard occasional soft > > backfires on some of the cranking sprees. We could smell fuel coming > > out of the muffler. > > We plugged in another rectifier that was there too, just cause we > > could. Nothing. We pulled the valve cover off and checked the cam > > chain, timing of the cams, and checked the valves too. Only the left > > intake was on the tight side just out of spec. Twice, we poured a > > little fuel in the spark plug hole and put the plug and tank back on > > and cranked it. Nothing. We scratched our heads and made concerning > > faces. THAT didn't help. We checked for loose wires. > > > > The lights all work, we have spark, we have fuel in the carb, and the > > thing cranks like an old chrysler with vapor lock on a hot day. We > > are going nuts. Any ideas?? > > > > The only thing that I can think of now is that something is clogged > > in the carb. But I can't believe that something could get in there > > while riding and just shut the whole thing down right now and not let > > it start again. I'm really determined to figure this thing out and > > need your help guys! > > > > MrMoose and Bill > > > > > > Everything you've tried has me thinking gas is not the problem. It is either > the timing of the spark, or the spark is breaking down under compression. I > would be suspicious of the ignition system. Be checking the timing pickup, coil > and black box, perhaps swapping parts between your bike and Bill's to confirm. > > > Pat > G'ville, Nv > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

[Devon]

monahanwb@... wrote:

>I was on the right hand side watching the cams turn, and we took out >the crank plugs on the left, and I believe Keith saw the TDC mark >come up at just the right time. Wouldn't that indicate the rotor is >on correctly? >

Yes.

> >The bike run just fine for a long time until it sputtered and died >yesterday, but has not fired since. > >

Have you swapped out the CDI? Devon

[monahanwb]

--- In DSN_klr650@yahoogroups.com, Devon wrote:

> >The bike run just fine for a long time until it sputtered and died > >yesterday, but has not fired since. > > > > > Have you swapped out the CDI? > > Devon

Nope, haven't done that....though it's on the list of possibilities.