doohickey madness

[pdstreeter@mmm.com]

Always use both brakes on the street, rain or shine. Don't GRAB the front brake, just squeeze it. You'd be amazed at how hard you can brake in the rain as long as there is no oil or sand, just clean wet pavement. Paul Streeter Shoreview, Minnesota Ex-MSF Instructor What is the general consensus for braking in the rain? When I was trained some 25+ years ago I was told "NOT" to use the front brake. And I didn't. This from the same guy who also taught me counter- steering back in the mid-seventies; long before I ever heard it brought into mainstream discussion. If I remember correctly he was afraid I'd grab a handfull in a panic situation. He used to say that I should imagine my right hand was duct tapped to the right handgrip. And although I always tried to avoid the rain as much as possible, I never had a rain related mishap(knock-on-wood)in that era (55K mostly touring miles). Since returning to motorcycling, I've really have not heard or read anything to really change my mind. I've read on this list to use both brakes right up to the point of lockup, but in the rain locking up the front tire could be the last thing you ever do. I would think :{ Matt P.S. I just turned over 20K (mostly commuter) miles on the KLR. I just got back into the adventure 6/2002.

[rm@richardmay.net]

On Mon, 22 Dec 2003, mwl_95623 wrote:

>I know the intent of your advice is good. And I know you're just trying >to drive home the fact that it's OK to use the front brake since I said I >didn't use it at all. Well, atually I do but I am still fairly cautious >with it. I think it's dangerous to assume you have 80% of available >traction in the wet. I just don't buy it. I will agree that under the >most ideal conditions (i.e. race track) a motorcycle has 80% traction, >but not on the city streets. There are just too many variables. >Puddles, oil slicks, antifreeze, painted traffic lines, and steel plates >to name just a few. Hit one of these in an emergency stop on a wet day >and you could be screwed. And what about turns? Do you believe the 80/70 >rule applies in turns? I'm not advocating riding scared but I think it's >dangerous to hit the streets in the rain with an 80/70 attitude. Be >careful.

I was out squidding on my ZR-7 yesterday on the Angeles Crest Highway. Temps in the upper 40's and wet pavement everywhere. I damn near stood the bike on its nose on several occasions. The traction is there. Switching to the rear brake will make for a spectacular lowside when something jumps in front of you. RM

[Stan]

My experience riding in the wet yielded the following observation.. that the traction is indeed there, a lot of traction, but if you exceed the limit sufficiently, it's harder to get it back under control. Not being a fizzy cyst, I explain this with a "folk physics" theory that the delta between rolling friction (i.e. all is well) and sliding friction (i.e. you've exceeded the available traction) is greater in the wet than in the dry. So, to the original poster - definitely don't shy away from the front brake. Just don't go crazy with it, or you might throw yourself down the road. Think 70-80% of dry traction as your limit, and definitely watch out for painted lines, pavement sealer, manholes (personholes?), etc. When shit is not hitting the fan, use both brakes with moderate force for smoothness. When the chips are down, my personal instincts would be to use the front alone, and to focus on avoidance rather than all-out braking. -S rm@... wrote:

>On Mon, 22 Dec 2003, mwl_95623 wrote: > > > >>I know the intent of your advice is good. And I know you're just trying >>to drive home the fact that it's OK to use the front brake since I said I >>didn't use it at all. Well, atually I do but I am still fairly cautious >>with it. I think it's dangerous to assume you have 80% of available >>traction in the wet. I just don't buy it. I will agree that under the >>most ideal conditions (i.e. race track) a motorcycle has 80% traction, >>but not on the city streets. There are just too many variables. >>Puddles, oil slicks, antifreeze, painted traffic lines, and steel plates >>to name just a few. Hit one of these in an emergency stop on a wet day >>and you could be screwed. And what about turns? Do you believe the 80/70 >>rule applies in turns? I'm not advocating riding scared but I think it's >>dangerous to hit the streets in the rain with an 80/70 attitude. Be >>careful. >> >> > >I was out squidding on my ZR-7 yesterday on the Angeles Crest Highway. >Temps in the upper 40's and wet pavement everywhere. I damn near stood >the bike on its nose on several occasions. The traction is there. >Switching to the rear brake will make for a spectacular lowside when >something jumps in front of you. > >RM > >List sponsored by Dual Sport News at www.dualsportnews.com. List FAQ courtesy of Chris Krok at: www.bigcee.com/klr650faq.html >Unsubscribe by sending a blank message to: >DSN_klr650-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com . > > > >Yahoo! Groups Links > >To visit your group on the web, go to: > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/DSN_klr650/ > >To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: > DSN_klr650-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com > >Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: > http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ > > > >

[kdxkawboy@aol.com]

All great points, two which I can only think of a couple to add - In the rain, cagers get all the more into tunnel vision. its as if the rain on the side windows act like a set of blinders. If you are not somewhere ahead or directly behind figure you are in the cager's blind spot. And be very very knowledgeable with the signs of hypothermia. If you ride any length of time n the rain you will increase your risk to hypothermia so be aware. The most noticeable sign is the onset of shivering you cannot control. This is the result of your autonomous nervous system telling all the muscles to start contracting to build up some body heat. This is a sure sign that your body has lost enough core heat that your automatic survival reactions are kicking in. You ignore this warning and it will not be long before your motor skills will show clear signs of deteriorating and you have become an accident waiting to touch down. Pat G'ville, Nv In a message dated 2003-12-21 9:43:34 PM Pacific Standard Time, mwl_95623@... writes:

> > I know the intent of your advice is good. And I know you're just > trying to drive home the fact that it's OK to use the front brake > since I said I didn't use it at all. Well, atually I do but I am > still fairly cautious with it. I think it's dangerous to assume > you have 80% of available traction in the wet. I just don't buy > it. I will agree that under the most ideal conditions (i.e. race > track) a motorcycle has 80% traction, but not on the city streets. > There are just too many variables. Puddles, oil slicks, antifreeze, > painted traffic lines, and steel plates to name just a few. Hit one > of these in an emergency stop on a wet day and you could be screwed. > And what about turns? Do you believe the 80/70 rule applies in > turns? I'm not advocating riding scared but I think it's dangerous > to hit the streets in the rain with an 80/70 attitude. Be careful. > > Some of my most memorable rides have been before, during and after a > rain. By no means do I claim to be an expert but here are a few > things I try to do to help reduce risk: > > 1. Make a game out of it. To me motorcycling is a lot like playing > defense in baseball. You always have to be thinking. Example: > Runners on 1st and 2nd with myself in Center Field. Fly > ball...throw behind the runner who left early, otherwise ahead. > Grounder...throw in front of the lead runner. Over my head ... hit > the cutoff. Blooper? Tweener? etc. The list goes on and the correct > reaction may be different for every player given his/her position. > My point is that when it's raining, foggy, hailing or just downright > cold you should treat the conditions as if it were bases loaded. > > 2. It's a given stopping distances are increased in the wet. So > now, more than ever, be sure have an escape plan and rely on > manuverability more so than braking to avoid an accident. > > 3. Keep in mind that if your braking is compromised so is the > person's behind you. > > 4. Alter your route according to the conditions. For example, in > the fog I'll opt for the freeway instead of the desolate back > country roads. I'd rather follow slow moving tail lights than be > out in the middle of nowhere with my little tail light, wimpy > headlight and compromised face shield visibilty. Same goes for when > I suspect black ice. Much safer on the freeway where I live. The > opposite is true for rain. I avoid traffic and welcome the back > roads. But look out for the deer! They seem extra active in the > rain. > > 5. In cold and wet conditions most of us are bundled up wearing > bulkier clothing. This alone, especially thicker gloves, increases > braking response time. Covering the brake helps. And generally, > unless you're using electrics, you will eventually get cold and this > too reduces response time. > > 6. Slow down. Try not to get yourself in a postion where you might > have to use all of your available traction. > > 7. Wear the best gear you can afford. > > I know there's lots more. Some of it given in here before. And > like Chris said, practice! > > Matt > > >

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

[thad_carey]

--- In DSN_klr650@yahoogroups.com, "Dooden" wrote:

> Or perhaps during assembly the person with the impact wrench in

there

> hand held the trigger longer than most do, or the air compressor

had a

> full charge of air at impact time. > > I really doubt they torque each one during assembly, as somebody > pointed out there local dealer just uses a impact to take them off

and

> put them back on, and never use a torque wrench. > > We are talking about a large bolt, that just holds a heavy rotor in > place, not a pattern of bolts that hold the head square. > > Dooden > A15 Green Ape > > > > --- In DSN_klr650@yahoogroups.com, Stan wrote: > > That is an interesting technique, Don. Thanks! > > > > I should mention that my case is probably more extreme than most -

the

> > bike's a 1990 model and it sat for many years. The rotor felt

like it

> > was welded onto the shaft. > > > > Perhaps the years of these metals being in very close contact led

to

> > some sort of diffusion bonding via atomic migration. A

possibility?

> > > > Cheers, > > Stan > > > > > > Don Kime wrote: > > > > >At 12:59 PM 12/22/03 -0800, Stan wrote: > > > > > > > > >>After the application of ridiculous magnitudes of torque, the

rotor

> > >>finally broke free from > > >>the shaft. The billet part bent slightly under the torture, but > held on. > > >> > > >> > > > > > >In my "prior life", we mounted many parts (much bigger and

heavier

> than the > > >KLR rotor) on tapered shafts. Most of these parts had tapped

holes

> like > > >the rotor to pull them off the shaft. We learned many eons ago > that the > > >correct way to pull a part off of a taper is to put the bolt

under

> some > > >load, and then give the head of the puller bolt a couple of good > raps w/ > > >a ball peen hammer, then a bit more torque on the bolt and > > >repeat. Usually if you do this, the part will come off with > considerably > > >less bolt torque than would otherwise be required. I have just

one

> > >datapoint, but when I did this with my rotor it popped right off

with

> > >little torque. Hope it works for you. > > > > > >Happy holidays & > > >Ride safe, > > >Don Kime - VFR750F, GL1500SE, GL1100, KLR 650 > > >OH - M/C Safety Instructor/RiderCoach dkime@c... > > >http://forums.delphiforums.com/MCTourer/ > > > > > > > > > > > >

Hey Dooden, I wonder what kind of torque wrench those KLR riders in Central or South America were using recently on that thread about removing that buggered up rotor on their KLR? That sounded like one of those remote, out-in-the-sticks, repair jobs from he!! that you hear about but wouldn't want to experience. Surely one of them was carrying a torque wrench in their luggage. LOL! Thad Carey A15 (but GI Joe deserted)