Wilsons Sandbox

Posted: **Mon May 08, 2000 9:10 pm**

Has anyone successfully installed a Moss rear engine seal conversion kit? I
have a club member who has a TD and he has installed the Moss rear seal kit.
It leaks like a cow wetting on a flat rock. He has had the machine work
done, even bought the sleeve that goes on the crankshaft to form a smooth
surface for the lip seal and it still leaks. He has replaced the seal
twice. The engine has not run more than 1 hour and it leaks. After
replacing the seal for the second time it leaked while cranking the engine
on the starter. (Not running the engine at all.) We have checked behind
him on his installation and can find no fault with it. All properly
silicone sealed. All mating surfaces machined flat. Seal looks perfect.
But, it still leaks. We even checked the "freeze plug" at the end of the
camshaft to make sure it was not unseated. All ok. We have talked with
others who have attempted this installation and have not found a single one
who was successful at a leak free job. If anyone one on the forum has done
this, we sure would like to hear from you. I have read the threads on the
rear seal installation on the website, and here but they seem to be doing a
different type of install with different parts. We are using the Moss kit,
so please keep this in mind when you respond. (Personally I like the
original seal, at least you can tell if you have any oil in the engine by
the dollar spot.)

Anyway, he is at his wits end and has lost heart in getting the car back on
the road after spending much time and dollars in a complete engine rebuild.
If anyone has any ideas or information to help get one more T car back in
service we both would be very grateful.
Neil Nelson
Orange Park, Florida

Posted: **Mon May 08, 2000 10:08 pm**

Neil,
From information garnered on this site, it is my understanding that the seal
supplied is not kosher, and must be replaced by a viton seal. I have a Moss
seal kit waiting for the day I have to rebuild my engine. There are those who
have gone thousands of miles with the Viton, and I am on the verge of asking
those successful sealers the part number of the replacement seal. (Are you
listening, Skip?)
I appreciate your comment on the original seal. It reminds me of my
brother-in-law, who was a real car nut. New Year's Eve, about 1955, we were
running around various houses indulging in a Scottish custom known as
"first-footing". At every house we got a drink, and we had been to a lot of
houses. We were driving a Morris 8. and the radiator fill cap was in the same
place as the MG Ttypes. Steam was belching out of this cap, and I asked if we
shouldn't put water in it. You may be able to guess the answer; "No, we have
water. When the steam stops, then we'll do something!" Hope your problem is
resolved. Jack Signey, Long Beach, California

Neil Nelson wrote:

> Has anyone successfully installed a Moss rear engine seal conversion kit? I
> have a club member who has a TD and he has installed the Moss rear seal kit.
> It leaks like a cow wetting on a flat rock. He has had the machine work
> done, even bought the sleeve that goes on the crankshaft to form a smooth
> surface for the lip seal and it still leaks. He has replaced the seal
> twice. The engine has not run more than 1 hour and it leaks. After
> replacing the seal for the second time it leaked while cranking the engine
> on the starter. (Not running the engine at all.) We have checked behind
> him on his installation and can find no fault with it. All properly
> silicone sealed. All mating surfaces machined flat. Seal looks perfect.
> But, it still leaks. We even checked the "freeze plug" at the end of the
> camshaft to make sure it was not unseated. All ok. We have talked with
> others who have attempted this installation and have not found a single one
> who was successful at a leak free job. If anyone one on the forum has done
> this, we sure would like to hear from you. I have read the threads on the
> rear seal installation on the website, and here but they seem to be doing a
> different type of install with different parts. We are using the Moss kit,
> so please keep this in mind when you respond. (Personally I like the
> original seal, at least you can tell if you have any oil in the engine by
> the dollar spot.)
>
> Anyway, he is at his wits end and has lost heart in getting the car back on
> the road after spending much time and dollars in a complete engine rebuild.
> If anyone has any ideas or information to help get one more T car back in
> service we both would be very grateful.
> Neil Nelson
> Orange Park, Florida

Posted: **Tue May 09, 2000 8:08 am**

Neil -
I too bought the Moss kit but returned it before installing it due to all
the static a couple months back on this list. The static was on the
ability of the seal to withstand the rotation surface speed so that does
not sound like what is happening in your friends case especially since he
replaced the seal and it leaked on just cranking. (I assume the seal was
lubed before rotating it.) I went to the Chevy rear seal, which is
explained on the T-ABC website. Should get my crank back on Saturday.

Dave Edgar, TC 5108
San Diego, California

On Mon, 8 May 2000, Neil Nelson wrote:

> Has anyone successfully installed a Moss rear engine seal conversion kit? I
> have a club member who has a TD and he has installed the Moss rear seal kit.
> It leaks like a cow wetting on a flat rock. He has had the machine work
> done, even bought the sleeve that goes on the crankshaft to form a smooth
> surface for the lip seal and it still leaks. He has replaced the seal
> twice. The engine has not run more than 1 hour and it leaks. After
> replacing the seal for the second time it leaked while cranking the engine
> on the starter. (Not running the engine at all.) We have checked behind
> him on his installation and can find no fault with it. All properly
> silicone sealed. All mating surfaces machined flat. Seal looks perfect.
> But, it still leaks. We even checked the "freeze plug" at the end of the
> camshaft to make sure it was not unseated. All ok. We have talked with
> others who have attempted this installation and have not found a single one
> who was successful at a leak free job. If anyone one on the forum has done
> this, we sure would like to hear from you. I have read the threads on the
> rear seal installation on the website, and here but they seem to be doing a
> different type of install with different parts. We are using the Moss kit,
> so please keep this in mind when you respond. (Personally I like the
> original seal, at least you can tell if you have any oil in the engine by
> the dollar spot.)
>
> Anyway, he is at his wits end and has lost heart in getting the car back on
> the road after spending much time and dollars in a complete engine rebuild.
> If anyone has any ideas or information to help get one more T car back in
> service we both would be very grateful.
> Neil Nelson
> Orange Park, Florida
>
>
>
>
>

Posted: **Tue May 09, 2000 9:25 am**

Jack:

As far as I know, there is no viton seal available that is the correct size
for the Moss seal. I personally will not use the afformentioned seal kit. I
only know of one local member that seems to be having good luck with the
kit(TC TERRY). I told all involved that the seal (nitrile rubbler) would
not work at the lip speed involved.
The Australians cut the flange down slightly,and use a viton seal from the
rear of a Volvo. It works quite well.

Cheers;

Skip..............................

At 10:06 PM 5/8/00 -0700, John Signey wrote:

>Neil,
>From information garnered on this site, it is my understanding that the seal
>supplied is not kosher, and must be replaced by a viton seal. I have a Moss
>seal kit waiting for the day I have to rebuild my engine. There are those who
>have gone thousands of miles with the Viton, and I am on the verge of asking
>those successful sealers the part number of the replacement seal. (Are you
>listening, Skip?)
>I appreciate your comment on the original seal. It reminds me of my
>brother-in-law, who was a real car nut. New Year's Eve, about 1955, we were
>running around various houses indulging in a Scottish custom known as
>"first-footing". At every house we got a drink, and we had been to a lot of
>houses. We were driving a Morris 8. and the radiator fill cap was in the same
>place as the MG Ttypes. Steam was belching out of this cap, and I asked if we
>shouldn't put water in it. You may be able to guess the answer; "No, we have
>water. When the steam stops, then we'll do something!" Hope your problem is
>resolved. Jack Signey, Long Beach, California
>
>Neil Nelson wrote:
>
>> Has anyone successfully installed a Moss rear engine seal conversion

kit? I

>> have a club member who has a TD and he has installed the Moss rear seal

kit.

>> It leaks like a cow wetting on a flat rock. He has had the machine work
>> done, even bought the sleeve that goes on the crankshaft to form a smooth
>> surface for the lip seal and it still leaks. He has replaced the seal
>> twice. The engine has not run more than 1 hour and it leaks. After
>> replacing the seal for the second time it leaked while cranking the engine
>> on the starter. (Not running the engine at all.) We have checked behind
>> him on his installation and can find no fault with it. All properly
>> silicone sealed. All mating surfaces machined flat. Seal looks perfect.
>> But, it still leaks. We even checked the "freeze plug" at the end of the
>> camshaft to make sure it was not unseated. All ok. We have talked with
>> others who have attempted this installation and have not found a single one
>> who was successful at a leak free job. If anyone one on the forum has done
>> this, we sure would like to hear from you. I have read the threads on the
>> rear seal installation on the website, and here but they seem to be doing a
>> different type of install with different parts. We are using the Moss kit,
>> so please keep this in mind when you respond. (Personally I like the
>> original seal, at least you can tell if you have any oil in the engine by
>> the dollar spot.)
>>
>> Anyway, he is at his wits end and has lost heart in getting the car back on
>> the road after spending much time and dollars in a complete engine rebuild.
>> If anyone has any ideas or information to help get one more T car back in
>> service we both would be very grateful.
>> Neil Nelson
>> Orange Park, Florida
>
>
>

Posted: **Tue May 09, 2000 9:23 pm**

Skip, as you may recall, Butch Gilbert installed the Moss Kit you sold me
when we did my rebuild now what, 3 years ago. He had a hard time with it (2
tries) but finally got it right I guess. It has been in and working fine
for over 5500 miles. A lot of that time the engine has run for long
stretches at 4000 RPM...Like on the Whistler BC trip last summer. I'll get
a quarter size drop after a long run, but I can not tell if it is all from
the Bell housing drain or not...So you can now say that you know of 2 local
members who have had good luck (So far, that is)

With fingers crossed
TCSYD

----- Original Message -----
From: Skip Kelsey
To: John Signey ; Neil Nelson
Cc:
Sent: Tuesday, May 09, 2000 9:01 AM
Subject: Re: [mg-tabc] Moss rear engine seal conversion

> Jack:
> > As far as I know, there is no viton seal available that is the correct
size
> for the Moss seal. I personally will not use the afformentioned seal kit.
I
> only know of one local member that seems to be having good luck with the
> kit(TC TERRY). I told all involved that the seal (nitrile rubbler) would
> not work at the lip speed involved.
> The Australians cut the flange down slightly,and use a viton seal from the
> rear of a Volvo. It works quite well.
>
> Cheers;
>
> Skip..............................
>
> At 10:06 PM 5/8/00 -0700, John Signey wrote:
> >Neil,
> >From information garnered on this site, it is my understanding that the
seal
> >supplied is not kosher, and must be replaced by a viton seal. I have a
Moss
> >seal kit waiting for the day I have to rebuild my engine. There are those
who
> >have gone thousands of miles with the Viton, and I am on the verge of
asking
> >those successful sealers the part number of the replacement seal. (Are
you
> >listening, Skip?)
> >I appreciate your comment on the original seal. It reminds me of my
> >brother-in-law, who was a real car nut. New Year's Eve, about 1955, we
were
> >running around various houses indulging in a Scottish custom known as
> >"first-footing". At every house we got a drink, and we had been to a lot
of
> >houses. We were driving a Morris 8. and the radiator fill cap was in the
same
> >place as the MG Ttypes. Steam was belching out of this cap, and I asked
if we
> >shouldn't put water in it. You may be able to guess the answer; "No, we
have
> >water. When the steam stops, then we'll do something!" Hope your
problem is
> >resolved. Jack Signey, Long Beach, California
> >
> >Neil Nelson wrote:
> >
> >> Has anyone successfully installed a Moss rear engine seal conversion
> kit? I
> >> have a club member who has a TD and he has installed the Moss rear seal
> kit.
> >> It leaks like a cow wetting on a flat rock. He has had the machine
work
> >> done, even bought the sleeve that goes on the crankshaft to form a
smooth
> >> surface for the lip seal and it still leaks. He has replaced the seal
> >> twice. The engine has not run more than 1 hour and it leaks. After
> >> replacing the seal for the second time it leaked while cranking the
engine
> >> on the starter. (Not running the engine at all.) We have checked
behind
> >> him on his installation and can find no fault with it. All properly
> >> silicone sealed. All mating surfaces machined flat. Seal looks
perfect.
> >> But, it still leaks. We even checked the "freeze plug" at the end of
the
> >> camshaft to make sure it was not unseated. All ok. We have talked
with
> >> others who have attempted this installation and have not found a single
one
> >> who was successful at a leak free job. If anyone one on the forum has
done
> >> this, we sure would like to hear from you. I have read the threads on
the
> >> rear seal installation on the website, and here but they seem to be
doing a
> >> different type of install with different parts. We are using the Moss
kit,
> >> so please keep this in mind when you respond. (Personally I like the
> >> original seal, at least you can tell if you have any oil in the engine
by
> >> the dollar spot.)
> >>
> >> Anyway, he is at his wits end and has lost heart in getting the car
back on
> >> the road after spending much time and dollars in a complete engine
rebuild.
> >> If anyone has any ideas or information to help get one more T car back
in
> >> service we both would be very grateful.
> >> Neil Nelson
> >> Orange Park, Florida
> >
> >
> >
>
>
>
>