Re: [mg-tabc] TC rear ended and oil lines

[David Edgar]

Attended the TC Motoring Guild meeting last night and have a couple items
to share with you all.

Item #1 Another TC rear ended.
Last October I had the misfortune to have our TC rear ended on the first
day of a trip to Yosemite. While our TC is back together and looking
great I just heard about another TC that was rear ended. The fellow that
bought Tony Henkels TC was hit recently. It is at Mike Goodmans now being
repaired. He apparently was sitting at a stop light on a mid Sunday
afternoon and a 16 year old boy hit him. Got the spare tire carrier,
dented the petrol tank and minor rear fender damage. Did not go into the
bucket like when I got hit. As the saying goes, "Things come in threes."
Hope this isn't the case here.

Item #2 Oil line breakage.
A year or more ago Phil Marino had one of his external oil lines that
attach to the filter crack and spew oil all over. He caught on right away
and had no engine damage but he now uses flexible lines instead of the
stiff steel ones. I forgot where he bought them but of course he improved
upon the design and tells everyone this is the way to go. I figured it
must have been a fluke, that the line would break since, if installed
correctly, they don't move, so shouldn't wear out. Well mine spilt last
night so maybe there is more to this problem. Any thoughts on this? They
are the same lines that were on the car when I bought it and I have had
the car 32 years. The filter is a removable element type so the lines
never get moved or disrupted. What makes them split?
I was not as lucky as Phil in the outcome though. It was about 10:30 p.m.
on the freeway through Orange County (south of Los Angeles). Was going
great and was making a pass around a truck and heard a rapping noise.
Thought is was the truck as it got louder as I got closer. When I got
beside it, the noise did not vary, and realized it must be me so a glance
at the oil pressure gauge showed no pressure. I had glanced at the gauge
regularly before so I had just happened. I shut down and found a shoulder
to pull off on (rare on the I-5 in that area as it is under construction).
With oil all over the left side of the car (shouldn't rust there now) I
popped open the left bonnet and noticed oil all over the area around the
filter. I added two quarts of oil and started the engine and spotted the
rupture. Looking around and seeing no emergency phones, and only 2 foot
from the fast lane of the freeway on a dark curve I decided that I would
chance driving to the next exit or safer spot rather than chance being
hit. Found a break in traffic and got to the next off ramp, parked under
a light and decided to call Pete Thelander who lived about 10 miles away
and had a trailer. He was at the same meeting I was at so knew he was up.
He actually had spare lines in the garage so brought them out. Of course
the fittings did not line up right so spent some time twisting the line to
fit (try it without a vice sometime). Thought of mr badger and his rocks
but didn't think that would solve the problem here. Anyway, got it in and
it idled OK but had a knock if you reved it much. Nursed it to Pete's
house staying under the knock zone and it found a place in his garage. I
was lucky enough to catch him when his NE was in the San Diego Auto Museum
so he had room. He is scheduled to pick the NE up on Thursday so he was
making a run down to my area with an empty trailer anyway. I kept Pete up
till 1 a.m. and he had to get to work the next morning so he deserves
great praise for coming to the aid of a fellow TC'er. Thank you, Pete.

Dave Edgar, TC 5108

[mrbadger]

Hey Dave,
Sounds like you had a fun evening.
I forgot to tell you about duct tape and wire for when rocks don't work.
Do I have to tell you guys EVERYTHING?
The reason it broke is a phenomenon called hydrogen embrittlement which
is something that happens to all metals when they are repeatedly twisted
or flexed or, in the case of your oil line, subjected to vibration even
slightly but over a long period. Yes Cecil, that's why half-shafts
break when they get old. What this means, in effect, is that every
piece of metal in your entire car is becoming more brittle and subject
to breakage every minute that you drive it. Isn't that a cheerful
thought? I knew you'd like it.
Badger


David Edgar wrote:

>
> Attended the TC Motoring Guild meeting last night and have a couple items
> to share with you all.
>
> Item #1 Another TC rear ended.
> Last October I had the misfortune to have our TC rear ended on the first
> day of a trip to Yosemite. While our TC is back together and looking
> great I just heard about another TC that was rear ended. The fellow that
> bought Tony Henkels TC was hit recently. It is at Mike Goodmans now being
> repaired. He apparently was sitting at a stop light on a mid Sunday
> afternoon and a 16 year old boy hit him. Got the spare tire carrier,
> dented the petrol tank and minor rear fender damage. Did not go into the
> bucket like when I got hit. As the saying goes, "Things come in threes."
> Hope this isn't the case here.
>
> Item #2 Oil line breakage.
> A year or more ago Phil Marino had one of his external oil lines that
> attach to the filter crack and spew oil all over. He caught on right away
> and had no engine damage but he now uses flexible lines instead of the
> stiff steel ones. I forgot where he bought them but of course he improved
> upon the design and tells everyone this is the way to go. I figured it
> must have been a fluke, that the line would break since, if installed
> correctly, they don't move, so shouldn't wear out. Well mine spilt last
> night so maybe there is more to this problem. Any thoughts on this? They
> are the same lines that were on the car when I bought it and I have had
> the car 32 years. The filter is a removable element type so the lines
> never get moved or disrupted. What makes them split?
> I was not as lucky as Phil in the outcome though. It was about 10:30 p.m.
> on the freeway through Orange County (south of Los Angeles). Was going
> great and was making a pass around a truck and heard a rapping noise.
> Thought is was the truck as it got louder as I got closer. When I got
> beside it, the noise did not vary, and realized it must be me so a glance
> at the oil pressure gauge showed no pressure. I had glanced at the gauge
> regularly before so I had just happened. I shut down and found a shoulder
> to pull off on (rare on the I-5 in that area as it is under construction).
> With oil all over the left side of the car (shouldn't rust there now) I
> popped open the left bonnet and noticed oil all over the area around the
> filter. I added two quarts of oil and started the engine and spotted the
> rupture. Looking around and seeing no emergency phones, and only 2 foot
> from the fast lane of the freeway on a dark curve I decided that I would
> chance driving to the next exit or safer spot rather than chance being
> hit. Found a break in traffic and got to the next off ramp, parked under
> a light and decided to call Pete Thelander who lived about 10 miles away
> and had a trailer. He was at the same meeting I was at so knew he was up.
> He actually had spare lines in the garage so brought them out. Of course
> the fittings did not line up right so spent some time twisting the line to
> fit (try it without a vice sometime). Thought of mr badger and his rocks
> but didn't think that would solve the problem here. Anyway, got it in and
> it idled OK but had a knock if you reved it much. Nursed it to Pete's
> house staying under the knock zone and it found a place in his garage. I
> was lucky enough to catch him when his NE was in the San Diego Auto Museum
> so he had room. He is scheduled to pick the NE up on Thursday so he was
> making a run down to my area with an empty trailer anyway. I kept Pete up
> till 1 a.m. and he had to get to work the next morning so he deserves
> great praise for coming to the aid of a fellow TC'er. Thank you, Pete.
>
> Dave Edgar, TC 5108

[Frank O_ The Mountain]

In a message dated 00-04-26 13:39:30 EDT, mrbadger@home.com writes:

[mrbadger]

You're right Terry about electro plating and hydrogen embrittlement.
I wrote too quickly. I think my brain is work hardening.
Certain aspects of getting old are okay but mostly, it really sucks.
Badger

TATERRY@aol.com wrote:

>
> In a message dated 00-04-26 13:39:30 EDT, mrbadger@home.com writes:
>
> The reason it broke is a phenomenon called hydrogen embrittlement which
> is something that happens to all metals when they are repeatedly twisted
> or flexed or, in the case of your oil line, subjected to vibration even
> slightly but over a long period. Yes Cecil, that's why half-shafts
> break when they get old. >>
>
> Sorry to tell you Derek that hydrogen embrittlement is not the reason that
> oil lines break. Hydrogen embrittlement is a phenomanon associated with
> electro plating and is the reason that plated bolts sometimes break at low
> torques and chromed wire wheels are not recommended.....the reason the oil
> lines broke is because the constant vibration work hardens them and make them
> brittle. The same will happen to your copper based brake lines, expecially
> the ones on the rear axle housing. Rear axle breakage has been a constant
> problem with MGs as recently pointed out in Mike Allison's wonderful new book
> "Works Cars". The reason for this is mostly metallurgy. I'm sure the
> mechanical engineers on the list can add more on the axle story.
> Terry

[John Signey]

Dave,
So sorry about the midnight "roadside opportunity". Pete and yourself must
have been very slick with your activities, as it was almost 11pm when Pete
dropped me off.
These oil lines do keep breaking, and I installed Phil's lines some six
months ago, as I thought they made very good sense. So far, no problem, but
ask me again in 50 or 60 years!
Jack Signey, Long Beach California.

[Gene Gillam]

So, now somebody please tell me - the flexible lines are simply rubber hoses
slid over the cutoff ends of the existing fittings and hose clamped in place
or, are there actual flexible hoses with fittings available for purchase?
If the latter, where can I buy some?

Thanks,
Gene