Wilsons Sandbox

Date sent: Thu, 06 Apr 2000 10:33:36 -0700
From: Russ Wilson
Subject: Re: rear engine seal
To: vivj@iafrica.com, abradley@cnw.com

Russ,
Yes I did. It worked fine for maybe 1000 miles. Now it drips worse
than it ever did with the original slinger system. If I were you, I
would chuck your Moss kitt out right now and either put back the
original taking care to get the clearances perfect and the the crank
thrower thread perfect or replace it with the Chevy conversion as
per Andy Bradley. You will not get better advice!!
I have a second complete motor on the bench waiting for its car.
This one has the Chevy seal modification as per this list.
If you go back in history on this list, I think you will find a letter
from Andy warning me not to go the Moss route. I ignored him. I
was wrong!

Viv, Andy,
Did either of you install a speedy sleeve on your crank with the Moss seal kit?
Several years ago, I installed the seal and sleeve in my TC engine that is
still sitting on the bench waiting for the body to be restored..................
Thanks,
Russ Wilson

Hi all,
Thanks to all who have responded so far. Unfortunately, the number of responses is unexpectedly very poor - there must be over 2000 XPAG engines out there and they all will either have a seal conversion or be using the original scroll. so every engine owner will be adding to the collective knowledge of the entire group. The survey only takes a minute or two and will help member in the future decide on an appropiate course of action when dealing with oil leaks.
Can I request that each of you finds the time to participate and hopefully we will obtain useful insights into this area?
Regards
Nick

Dear All,   For once we MPJG owners are ahead of XPAGs.  We LOVE oil in our bellhousings!   Regards to all, Ian Linton TA3120 (still with an MPJG) Lewes, East Sussex, UK   From: mg-tabc-noreply@yahoogroups.com Sent: Wednesday, July 06, 2016 9:07 AM To: mg-tabc@yahoogroups.com Subject: [mg-tabc] Rear Engine Seal Hi all,   Thanks to all who have responded so far. Unfortunately, the number of responses is unexpectedly very poor - there must be over 2000 XPAG engines out there and they all will either have a seal conversion or be using the original scroll. so every engine owner will be adding to the collective knowledge of the entire group. The survey only takes a minute or two and will help member in the future decide on an appropiate course of action when dealing with oil leaks.   Can I request that each of you finds the time to participate and hopeful ly we will obtain useful insights into this area?   Regards   Nick

Nick,  The appropriate course of action is:1)  If you have new main bearings do not fit the seal.2)  If you crank has movement, either way, do not fit the seal kit.3)  If you think you ll make it better with the seal kit, you may, but you ll be lucky to get it right first time.  If you read the responses I ve had, all well meaning and I m sure they re all completely correct for each individuals circumstances but each is different. In some case if you follow one set of instructions it is opposite to another.  I followed the Moss instructions that came with the seal kit to the letter. The flywheel was skimmed, the bolts were shortened. The seal housing was aligned the seal was fitted exactly as per the instructions. I didn t fit a sleeve as the crank had no marks and I polished it with 2000 grade wet and dry.  However, I ve since been sent 2 further Moss instructions, both different to the first and to each other.  This time I m fitting the seal to the sleeve backwards. I ll soak the seal in hot water and put PTFE tape on the open edge of the sleeve. Then I ll fit the sleeve on backwards using a flat piece of wood to keep it in line. I ll also put a smear of silicone gasket maker on the crank to ensure there is a seal between sleeve and crank. I ll measure the depth of the crank, the width of the seal and the width of the sleeve to ensure the seal sits in the centre of the sleeve. If I have to make a distance piece to keep the sleeve from going too far on then so be it.  If mine still leaks after all that I m reverting to the scroll. I only need to fill in the new drain hole.  Summary. DO NOT USE THE MOSS KIT, YOU LL REGRET IT.  Norman VeronaLa Foie, 49520, Noellet, FranceTel: 0033 (0)2 41 92 73 44Mob: 0033 (0)7 70 70 23 79Website: www FrenchBlat com (put dots in the spaces)  From: mg-tabc@yahoogroups.com [mailto:mg-tabc@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Nicholas Fitzhugh fitzhugh_n@yahoo.com [mg-tabc]
Sent: 06 July 2016 10:08
To: yahoogroups
Subject: [mg-tabc] Rear Engine Seal    Hi all,  Thanks to all who have responded so far. Unfortunately, the number of responses is unexpectedly very poor - there must be over 2000 XPAG engines out there and they all will either have a seal conversion or be using the original scroll. so every engine owner will be adding to the collective knowledge of the entire group. The survey only takes a minute or two and will help member in the future decide on an appropiate course of action when dealing with oil leaks.  Can I request that each of you finds the time to participate and hopefully we will obtain useful insights into this area?  Regards  Nick

I have owned TC 1307 since 2002.   The P/O had the moss seal installed before I bought it.  It still works.  No leaks.  (Knocking on wood!).

Sent from my iPhone

On Jul 6, 2016, at 1:58 AM, 'Norman Verona' norman@frenchblat.com [mg-tabc] wrote:

 
Nick,  The appropriate course of action is:1)  If you have new main bearings do not fit the seal.2)  If you crank has movement, either way, do not fit the seal kit.3)  If you think you ll make it better with the seal kit, you may, but you ll be lucky to get it right first time.  If you read the responses I ve had, all well meaning and I m sure they re all completely correct for each individuals circumstances but each is different. In some case if you follow one set of instructions it is opposite to another.  I followed the Moss instructions that came with the seal kit to the letter. The flywheel was skimmed, the bolts were shortened. The seal housing was aligned the seal was fitted exactly as per the instructions. I didn t fit a sleeve as the crank had no marks and I polished it with 2000 grade wet and dry.  However, I ve since been sent 2 further Moss instructions, both different to the first and to each other.  This time I m fitting the seal to the sleeve backwards. I ll soak the seal in hot water and put PTFE tape on the open edge of the sleeve. Then I ll fit the sleeve on backwards using a flat piece of wood to keep it in line. I ll also put a smear of silicone gasket maker on the crank to ensure there is a seal between sleeve and crank. I ll measure the depth of the crank, the width of the seal and the width of the sleeve to ensure the seal sits in the centre of the sleeve. If I have to make a distance piece to keep the sleeve from going too far on then so be it.  If mine still leaks after all that I m reverting to the scroll. I only need to fill in the new drain hole.  Summary. DO NOT USE THE MOSS KIT, YOU LL REGRET IT.  Norman VeronaLa Foie, 49520, Noellet, FranceTel: 0033 (0)2 41 92 73 44Mob: 0033 (0)7 70 70 23 79Website: www FrenchBlat com (put dots in the spaces)  From: mg-tabc@yahoogroups.com [mg-tabc@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Nicholas Fitzhugh fitzhugh_n@yahoo.com [mg-tabc]
Sent: 06 July 2016 10:08
To: yahoogroups
Subject: [mg-tabc] Rear Engine Seal    Hi all,  Thanks to all who have responded so far. Unfortunately, the number of responses is unexpectedly very poor - there must be over 2000 XPAG engines out there and they all will either have a seal conversion or be using the original scroll. so every engine owner will be adding to the collective knowledge of the entire group. The survey only takes a minute or two and will help member in the future decide on an appropiate course of action when dealing with oil leaks.  Can I request that each of you finds the time to participate and hopefully we will obtain useful insights into this area?  Regards  Nick

when I rebuilt the original engine for exu7617, I used the factory setup on the rear and a lip seal at the front on a new Moldex crank.  It ran for ~14k miles with acceptably small spots (stains only) on the garage floor.  I took the sump down (engine in situ) a couple of years ago as part of satisfying my curiosity about oil pressure loss on hard cornering, and shortly after re-installing (with original gaskets which had only been greased, not siliconed/hylomared on original installation) developed a large leak (big spots of standing oil) from the front and from the pee hole under the clutch.  I again took the sump down (again, engine in situ) and installed new gasket and cork strip at the rear.  Front lip seal was re-"glued" with hylomar, sump gasket 'glued' to the aluminum with gasket shellac and greased to the machined block face, and the rear cork ends trimmed to fit into the main cap (the "tabs" as supplied by Moss are too thick) and no goo.  Now there is minimal leakage (less than originally) after about 1k miles, just enough to confirm that I do have oil in the system. 
 

A general dissolution of the principles and manners will more surely overthrow the liberties of America than the whole force of the common enemy
-Samuel Adams


From: "Nicholas Fitzhugh fitzhugh_n@yahoo.com [mg-tabc]"
To: yahoogroups
Sent: Wednesday, July 6, 2016 4:07 AM
Subject: [mg-tabc] Rear Engine Seal

  Hi all,
Thanks to all who have responded so far. Unfortunately, the number of responses is unexpectedly very poor - there must be over 2000 XPAG engines out there and they all will either have a seal conversion or be using the original scroll. so every engine owner will be adding to the collective knowledge of the entire group. The survey only takes a minute or two and will help member in the future decide on an appropiate course of action when dealing with oil leaks.
Can I request that each of you finds the time to participate and hopefully we will obtain useful insights into this area?
Regards
Nick
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Attachments : Hi All, I do not have any run time on my TD engine but I posted photos of the install by John Vilas of Vilas Motor Works in College Station Texas.   He has done several and on my friends TF race 1500 he does not leak a drop after 3 events and he makes 100hp at the rear wheels.   John’s setting up includes measurement and a tool he made to replicate the seal to perfectly line up the seal shell halves.   He had to slot those slightly to allow perfect alignment on the crank and shim out to have the seal lip run perfectly on the speedy sleeve.    Hopefully soon I will be ready for a test run.   David   David Griffith Regional Sales Manager   Direct: (713) 329-0217 Cell: (832) 275-5941 Main: (713) 460-5200 Fax: (713) 460-1444 [img]cid:image001.png@01D1D76A.96D71BC0[/img]
   50+ years of excellence Gaumer Process
13616 Hempstead Road
Houston, TX 77040 USA
www.gaumer.com
Gaumer Process, since 1962, is a leading manufacturer of electric process heaters, controls and fuel gas conditioning systems for power plants, oil/natural gas value chain (upstream, midstream, downstream) and other high reliability markets.

Attachments :David,  Nice to hear someone has made a correct tool to fit the seal over the lip of the sleeve. This is why I’m going to fit it the seal first and backwards then fit the sleeve backwards with the lip still on. I’m going to measure first to ensure the lip is sitting in the middle of the sleeve.  Norman VeronaLa Foie, 49520, Noellet, FranceTel: 0033 (0)2 41 92 73 44Mob: 0033 (0)7 70 70 23 79Website: www FrenchBlat com (put dots in the spaces)  From: mg-tabc@yahoogroups.com [mailto:mg-tabc@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of David Griffith davidg@gaumer.com [mg-tabc]
Sent: 06 July 2016 16:44
To: 'mg-tabc@yahoogroups.com'
Subject: [mg-tabc] Re: Rear Engine Seal    Hi All,I do not have any run time on my TD engine but I posted photos of the install by John Vilas of Vilas Motor Works in College Station Texas. He has done several and on my friends TF race 1500 he does not leak a drop after 3 events and he makes 100hp at the rear wheels.  John’s setting up includes measurement and a tool he made to replicate the seal to perfectly line up the seal shell halves.   He had to slot those slightly to allow perfect alignment on the crank and shim out to have the seal lip run perfectly on the speedy sleeve.   Hopefully soon I will be ready for a test run. David  David GriffithRegional Sales Manager Direct:(713) 329-0217Cell:(832) 275-5941Main:(713) 460-5200Fax:(713) 460-1444[img]cid:image002.png@01D1D7AC.AEFCB9C0[/img]
   50+ years of excellenceGaumer Process
13616 Hempstead Road
Houston, TX 77040 USA
www.gaumer.com
Gaumer Process, since 1962, is a leading manufacturer of electric process heaters, controls and fuel gas conditioning systems for power plants, oil/natural gas value chain (upstream, midstream, downstream) and other high reliability markets.

I wonder if there is any chance of getting a look at the tool John made? Dimensions would be even better.

--Mike
TC7483

On 07/06/2016 09:43 AM, David Griffith davidg@gaumer.com [mg-tabc] wrote:

Hi All, I do not have any run time on my TD engine but I posted photos of the install by John Vilas of Vilas Motor Works in College Station Texas. He has done several and on my friends TF race 1500 he does not leak a drop after 3 events and he makes 100hp at the rear wheels. John s setting up includes measurement and a tool he made to replicate the seal to perfectly line up the seal shell halves. He had to slot those slightly to allow perfect alignment on the crank and shim out to have the seal lip run perfectly on the speedy sleeve. Hopefully soon I will be ready for a test run. David David Griffith Regional Sales Manager Direct: (713) 329-0217 Cell: (832) 275-5941 Main: (713) 460-5200 Fax: (713) 460-1444 [img]cid:part1.02030909.04030702@aris.net[/img]
50+ years of excellence Gaumer Process
13616 Hempstead Road
Houston, TX 77040 USA
www.gaumer.com
Gaumer Process, since 1962, is a leading manufacturer of electric process heaters, controls and fuel gas conditioning systems for power plants, oil/natural gas value chain (upstream, midstream, downstream) and other high reliability markets.

Why would you not fit a rubber rear seal if you have new main bearings?

- Steve Simmons, TC8975

On 7/6/2016 1:58 AM, 'Norman Verona' norman@frenchblat.com [mg-tabc] wrote:
>
> Nick,
>
> The appropriate course of action is:
>
> 1)If you have new main bearings do not fit the seal.
>
> 2)If you crank has movement, either way, do not fit the seal kit.
>
> 3)If you think you ll make it better with the seal kit, you may, but
> you ll be lucky to get it right first time.
>
> If you read the responses I ve had, all well meaning and I m sure
> they re all completely correct for each individuals circumstances but
> each is different. In some case if you follow one set of instructions
> it is opposite to another.
>
> I followed the Moss instructions that came with the seal kit to the
> letter. The flywheel was skimmed, the bolts were shortened. The seal
> housing was aligned the seal was fitted exactly as per the
> instructions. I didn t fit a sleeve as the crank had no marks and I
> polished it with 2000 grade wet and dry.
>
> However, I ve since been sent 2 further Moss instructions, both
> different to the first and to each other.
>
> This time I m fitting the seal to the sleeve backwards. I ll soak the
> seal in hot water and put PTFE tape on the open edge of the sleeve.
> Then I ll fit the sleeve on backwards using a flat piece of wood to
> keep it in line. I ll also put a smear of silicone gasket maker on the
> crank to ensure there is a seal between sleeve and crank. I ll measure
> the depth of the crank, the width of the seal and the width of the
> sleeve to ensure the seal sits in the centre of the sleeve. If I have
> to make a distance piece to keep the sleeve from going too far on then
> so be it.
>
> If mine still leaks after all that I m reverting to the scroll. I only
> need to fill in the new drain hole.
>
> Summary. *DO NOT USE THE MOSS KIT, YOU LL REGRET IT.*
>
> *Norman Verona*
>
> La Foie, 49520, Noellet, France
>
> Tel: 0033 (0)2 41 92 73 44
>
> Mob: 0033 (0)7 70 70 23 79
>
> Website: www FrenchBlat com (put dots in the spaces)
>
> *From:*mg-tabc@yahoogroups.com [mailto:mg-tabc@yahoogroups.com] *On
> Behalf Of *Nicholas Fitzhugh fitzhugh_n@yahoo.com [mg-tabc]
> *Sent:* 06 July 2016 10:08
> *To:* yahoogroups
> *Subject:* [mg-tabc] Rear Engine Seal
>
> Hi all,
>
> Thanks to all who have responded so far. Unfortunately, the number of
> responses is unexpectedly very poor - there must be over 2000 XPAG
> engines out there and they all will either have a seal conversion or
> be using the original scroll. so every engine owner will be adding to
> the collective knowledge of the entire group. The survey only takes a
> minute or two and will help member in the future decide on an
> appropiate course of action when dealing with oil leaks.
>
> Can I request that each of you finds the time to participate and
> hopefully we will obtain useful insights into this area?
>
> Regards
>
> Nick
>
>