seatbelts

[Dave & Diana Dwyer]

Terry

I'm with you re lap/sash belts in any car.

Unfortunately the laws of physics still apply inside our toys, and they
don't have crash padding like more modern vehicles.

Our J2 has had belts since we fitted them in the 60s: top fixing is the same
as yours.

Regards

Dave Dwyer
J2, TA, TC

[i.thomson@talk21.com]

While I can't criticise the wish to prevent the driver contacting the steering wheel I do worry about hte steering wheel contacting the driver!....and said driver being unable to throw themselves out of the way due to wearing a seat belt! Maybe we wouldn't have the time, or the wit to do this but the thought of what that steering lance could do to my chest in a front end shunt makes me go pale. Just look at where it is mounted and you will be able to work out what I am talking obout. I will be sticking with_no_seat belts.

Ian Thomson


--------------------

> from: taterry@aol.com
> date: Fri, 05 Apr 2002 04:12:58
> to: GaryPerser@aol.com, mg-tabc@yahoogroups.com
> subject: Re: [mg-tabc] Seatbelts
>
> In a message dated 4/4/02 18:35:43 Pacific Standard Time, GaryPerser@aol.com
> writes:
>
> it
> in the parking lot of the Holiday Inn last summer in St. Paul, but am
> curious
> about the anchoring method. >>
>
> The shoulder belt is anchored by a large plate under the inner wheel
> well........spread the load and absorb the most energy you can......I rather
> have things start to pull apart than have those four bolt heads in the
> Brooklands tattooed in my chest again!! Any thing is better than slamming
> into the dash and steering wheel........
> Terry
>
>
>
> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
>
>

---
talk21 your FREE portable and private address on the net at http://www.talk21.com

[Ray]

I have found that driving with body armor helps the situation. Just
remember the trauma plate.
Best,
Ray

----- Original Message -----
From:
To: ; ;
Sent: Tuesday, April 09, 2002 5:18 AM
Subject: Re: [mg-tabc] Seatbelts


> While I can't criticise the wish to prevent the driver contacting the
steering wheel I do worry about hte steering wheel contacting the
driver!....and said driver being unable to throw themselves out of the way
due to wearing a seat belt! Maybe we wouldn't have the time, or the wit to
do this but the thought of what that steering lance could do to my chest in
a front end shunt makes me go pale. Just look at where it is mounted and
you will be able to work out what I am talking obout. I will be sticking
with_no_seat belts.
>
> Ian Thomson
>
>
> --------------------
>
> > from: taterry@aol.com
> > date: Fri, 05 Apr 2002 04:12:58
> > to: GaryPerser@aol.com, mg-tabc@yahoogroups.com
> > subject: Re: [mg-tabc] Seatbelts
> >
> > In a message dated 4/4/02 18:35:43 Pacific Standard Time,
GaryPerser@aol.com
> > writes:
> >
> > > it
> > in the parking lot of the Holiday Inn last summer in St. Paul, but am
> > curious
> > about the anchoring method. >>
> >
> > The shoulder belt is anchored by a large plate under the inner wheel
> > well........spread the load and absorb the most energy you can......I
rather
> > have things start to pull apart than have those four bolt heads in the
> > Brooklands tattooed in my chest again!! Any thing is better than
slamming
> > into the dash and steering wheel........
> > Terry
> >
> >
> >
> > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to
http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
> >
> >
>
>
> ---
> talk21 your FREE portable and private address on the net at
http://www.talk21.com
>
>
>
>
> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
>
>

[tonygoodall]

> From: i.thomson@talk21.com
> Date: Tue, 9 Apr 2002 11:18:56 +0100 (BST)
> To: , ,
> Subject: Re: [mg-tabc] Seatbelts
>
> Ian wrote -
>
>
> Maybe we wouldn't have the time, or the wit to do this but the thought of what
> that steering lance could do to my chest in a front end shunt makes me go
> pale. Just look at where it is mounted and you will be able to work out what
> I am talking obout. I will be sticking with_no_seat belts.
>
>
> I have had a front end shunt at a mere 30 mph and there's only one way you go
> - forwards at 30 mph! and you can forget about dodging the steering wheel.
> Fortunately I was wearing seatbelts and only suffered bruising to my chest
> from the belts instead of having it caved in!
>
> Tony TC9825

[i.thomson@talk21.com]

Well, you choose which danger you want to protect yourself from and I'll choose mine. Ian.

------------------------

> from: tonygoodall
> date: Tue, 09 Apr 2002 18:43:49
> to: mg-tabc@yahoogroups.com
> subject: Re: [mg-tabc] Seatbelts
>
>
>
> > From: i.thomson@talk21.com
> > Date: Tue, 9 Apr 2002 11:18:56 0100 (BST)
> > To: , ,
> > Subject: Re: [mg-tabc] Seatbelts
> >
> > Ian wrote -
> >
> >
> > Maybe we wouldn't have the time, or the wit to do this but the thought of what
> > that steering lance could do to my chest in a front end shunt makes me go
> > pale. Just look at where it is mounted and you will be able to work out what
> > I am talking obout. I will be sticking with_no_seat belts.
> >
> >
> > I have had a front end shunt at a mere 30 mph and there's only one way you go
> > - forwards at 30 mph! and you can forget about dodging the steering wheel.
> > Fortunately I was wearing seatbelts and only suffered bruising to my chest
> > from the belts instead of having it caved in!
> >
> > Tony TC9825
>
>
>
>
> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
>
>

---
talk21 your FREE portable and private address on the net at http://www.talk21.com

[Sam Suklis]

Ian:
A bit of old racing-lore from the fifties: drivers of that era will tell
you: "If you see you're going to crash, get up against the streering wheel"
(or facia,if you're a passenger)

Take a nail and a hammer. Try to "push" the nail into a board with the
hammer. You can't. But, give that hammer a few inches run at it, and you
drive the nail in. Same thing happens with your body. It's not the wheel
that's dangerous, it's the running-start you have when you hit it at 40 mph,
or whatever...just like the hammer. If you get up against it, you've
elminated the "running start" and dramatically decrease the potential
damages to your favorite rib-cage.

Been there. Done that.

Sam Suklis

----- Original Message -----
From:
To: ;
Sent: Wednesday, April 10, 2002 12:34 AM
Subject: Re: [mg-tabc] Seatbelts


> Well, you choose which danger you want to protect yourself from and I'll
choose mine. Ian.
>
> ------------------------
>
> > from: tonygoodall
> > date: Tue, 09 Apr 2002 18:43:49
> > to: mg-tabc@yahoogroups.com
> > subject: Re: [mg-tabc] Seatbelts
> >
> >
> >
> > > From: i.thomson@talk21.com
> > > Date: Tue, 9 Apr 2002 11:18:56 0100 (BST)
> > > To: , ,
> > > Subject: Re: [mg-tabc] Seatbelts
> > >
> > > Ian wrote -
> > >
> > >
> > > Maybe we wouldn't have the time, or the wit to do this but the thought
of what
> > > that steering lance could do to my chest in a front end shunt makes me
go
> > > pale. Just look at where it is mounted and you will be able to work
out what
> > > I am talking obout. I will be sticking with_no_seat belts.
> > >
> > >
> > > I have had a front end shunt at a mere 30 mph and there's only one way
you go
> > > - forwards at 30 mph! and you can forget about dodging the steering
wheel.
> > > Fortunately I was wearing seatbelts and only suffered bruising to my
chest
> > > from the belts instead of having it caved in!
> > >
> > > Tony TC9825
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to
http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
> >
> >
>
>
> ---
> talk21 your FREE portable and private address on the net at
http://www.talk21.com
>
>
>
>
> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
>
>
>

[Graham Knight]

Sam,

I don't believe the hammer and nail analogy is correctly applied.

You are the hammer, the car is the nail and the thing you collide with is
the piece of wood.

If you sit normally, you are moving, the car and the object hit are
(effectively) stationary. This is the very similar to the normal hammer and
nail situation.

If you "get up against the steering wheel" you and the car are moving, the
object hit is stationary. You are effectively gluing the nail to the hammer
and swinging both together against the wood. The forces which apply at the
hammer nail interface will be the same as in the conventional situation -
i.e. they will be enough to decelerate the hammer (i.e. you) and dissipate
its kinetic energy.

Either way your chest gets crushed.

Lore to ignore I think!

Graham

At 15:31 10/04/2002 -0700, Sam Suklis wrote:

>Ian:
>A bit of old racing-lore from the fifties: drivers of that era will tell
>you: "If you see you're going to crash, get up against the streering wheel"
>(or facia,if you're a passenger)
>
>Take a nail and a hammer. Try to "push" the nail into a board with the
>hammer. You can't. But, give that hammer a few inches run at it, and you
>drive the nail in. Same thing happens with your body. It's not the wheel
>that's dangerous, it's the running-start you have when you hit it at 40 mph,
>or whatever...just like the hammer. If you get up against it, you've
>elminated the "running start" and dramatically decrease the potential
>damages to your favorite rib-cage.
>
>Been there. Done that.
>
>Sam Suklis
>
>----- Original Message -----
>From:
>To: ;
>Sent: Wednesday, April 10, 2002 12:34 AM
>Subject: Re: [mg-tabc] Seatbelts
>
>
> > Well, you choose which danger you want to protect yourself from and I'll
>choose mine. Ian.
> >
> > ------------------------
> >
> > > from: tonygoodall
> > > date: Tue, 09 Apr 2002 18:43:49
> > > to: mg-tabc@yahoogroups.com
> > > subject: Re: [mg-tabc] Seatbelts
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > > From: i.thomson@talk21.com
> > > > Date: Tue, 9 Apr 2002 11:18:56 0100 (BST)
> > > > To: , ,
> > > > Subject: Re: [mg-tabc] Seatbelts
> > > >
> > > > Ian wrote -
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > Maybe we wouldn't have the time, or the wit to do this but the thought
>of what
> > > > that steering lance could do to my chest in a front end shunt makes me
>go
> > > > pale. Just look at where it is mounted and you will be able to work
>out what
> > > > I am talking obout. I will be sticking with_no_seat belts.
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > I have had a front end shunt at a mere 30 mph and there's only one way
>you go
> > > > - forwards at 30 mph! and you can forget about dodging the steering
>wheel.
> > > > Fortunately I was wearing seatbelts and only suffered bruising to my
>chest
> > > > from the belts instead of having it caved in!
> > > >
> > > > Tony TC9825
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to
>http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
> > >
> > >
> >
> >
> > ---
> > talk21 your FREE portable and private address on the net at
>http://www.talk21.com
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
> >
> >
> >
>
>
>
>
>Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/

[Sam Suklis]

Graham:

"Ouch". I've been in that situation only once, years ago,when a drunk got me
head-on on Union Avenue in Portland in 1956...There was no way to escape,
two lanes of oncoming cars on my left, and this guy was on my side of the
road, in the outside lane to my right, coming head-on angled right at me.
Nowhere to go. I had a lap belt on, and at moment of impact, had flattened
myself against the steering wheel, as we'd been taught in racing. The
steering coumn went upward from the impact, with the steering wheel ending
up near the visor, and me with it. My speed had been about 35, less whatever
braking in that last second had diminished it to...I have no idea what his
speed was, but he was going full-tilt. He did not attempt to brake.

He hit me at a slight angle, shearing off the left front fender, wheel, and
A-frame of his car, and ended up going through the front of a store. He was
what we called (in my years of doing police photography) "loose-drunk" which
is what probably saved his life. (we saw a lot of that...drunks seemed to
survive the unsurvivable every time, and the cops had a theory that drunks
are so relaxed at impact, that's what saves them) But he was severely
injured. I didn't break any bones, but the cartilage in my chest was
pulped.

I'd bent the steering wheel (and broke a tooth on the rim of it) but walked
away. (a little bent over, and breathing was a bit painful for a while) The
seat-belt, needless to say, left me bruised in the middle, but I did walk
away. I was driving a '53 Stude Leowy pillarless hartdop Coupe. I remember a
bunch of cops standing around telling each other I should'nt be alive, let
alone standing, because the car was destroyed so badly,

I will never know what the scenario would have been had I hit the wheel
with a running start. But I believe it would have been a lot worse, and
will always be glad I didn't find out. In later years, I taught my family
to do the same thing...(lay your head on your arms and hope for the best)
Most of the State Cops I knew in the sixties were taught in their training
to do the same thing in that era before "collapsible" steering columns and
shoulder-belts came along.

Bottom line: given the choice, I'll always opt for being up against the
wheel at impact.

Best regards, Sam

----- Original Message -----
From: "Graham Knight"
To: "Sam Suklis"
Cc: "tonygoodall" ; "mg-tabc"
; "i.thomson"
Sent: Thursday, April 11, 2002 1:12 AM
Subject: Re: [mg-tabc] Seatbelts


> Sam,
>
> I don't believe the hammer and nail analogy is correctly applied.
>
> You are the hammer, the car is the nail and the thing you collide with is
> the piece of wood.
>
> If you sit normally, you are moving, the car and the object hit are
> (effectively) stationary. This is the very similar to the normal hammer
and
> nail situation.
>
> If you "get up against the steering wheel" you and the car are moving, the
> object hit is stationary. You are effectively gluing the nail to the
hammer
> and swinging both together against the wood. The forces which apply at the
> hammer nail interface will be the same as in the conventional situation -
> i.e. they will be enough to decelerate the hammer (i.e. you) and dissipate
> its kinetic energy.
>
> Either way your chest gets crushed.
>
> Lore to ignore I think!
>
> Graham
>
> At 15:31 10/04/2002 -0700, Sam Suklis wrote:
> >Ian:
> >A bit of old racing-lore from the fifties: drivers of that era will tell
> >you: "If you see you're going to crash, get up against the streering
wheel"
> >(or facia,if you're a passenger)
> >
> >Take a nail and a hammer. Try to "push" the nail into a board with the
> >hammer. You can't. But, give that hammer a few inches run at it, and
you
> >drive the nail in. Same thing happens with your body. It's not the
wheel
> >that's dangerous, it's the running-start you have when you hit it at 40
mph,
> >or whatever...just like the hammer. If you get up against it, you've
> >elminated the "running start" and dramatically decrease the potential
> >damages to your favorite rib-cage.
> >
> >Been there. Done that.
> >
> >Sam Suklis
> >
> >----- Original Message -----
> >From:
> >To: ;
> >Sent: Wednesday, April 10, 2002 12:34 AM
> >Subject: Re: [mg-tabc] Seatbelts
> >
> >
> > > Well, you choose which danger you want to protect yourself from and
I'll
> >choose mine. Ian.
> > >
> > > ------------------------
> > >
> > > > from: tonygoodall
> > > > date: Tue, 09 Apr 2002 18:43:49
> > > > to: mg-tabc@yahoogroups.com
> > > > subject: Re: [mg-tabc] Seatbelts
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > > From: i.thomson@talk21.com
> > > > > Date: Tue, 9 Apr 2002 11:18:56 0100 (BST)
> > > > > To: , ,

> > > > > Subject: Re: [mg-tabc] Seatbelts
> > > > >
> > > > > Ian wrote -
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > > Maybe we wouldn't have the time, or the wit to do this but the
thought
> >of what
> > > > > that steering lance could do to my chest in a front end shunt
makes me
> >go
> > > > > pale. Just look at where it is mounted and you will be able to
work
> >out what
> > > > > I am talking obout. I will be sticking with_no_seat belts.
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > > I have had a front end shunt at a mere 30 mph and there's only one
way
> >you go
> > > > > - forwards at 30 mph! and you can forget about dodging the
steering
> >wheel.
> > > > > Fortunately I was wearing seatbelts and only suffered bruising to
my
> >chest
> > > > > from the belts instead of having it caved in!
> > > > >
> > > > > Tony TC9825
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to
> >http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
> > > >
> > > >
> > >
> > >
> > > ---
> > > talk21 your FREE portable and private address on the net at
> >http://www.talk21.com
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to
http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
> > >
> > >
> > >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
>
>
>
>
> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
>
>
>

[BRADFORD]

Hi Group, we supply a period looking seat belt like on very early MGB or
MGA, they have a chrome buckle and easy to fit (comes with a fitting kit)
anyone interested please contact me direct Carl

[D&J Edgar]

Doug

I just was catching up on TABC messages after being gone for some time. I
came across your California seatbelt/ infant seat story. While it was the
law that the infant had to be in a car seat many years ago when your story
took place, California law has changed. As of a few years ago an infant or
child does not have to be in a special seat if the vehicle did come equipped
with seat belts and was manufactured before 1962. The law also at one time
allowed a child to ride in the luggage area of a TC (as I had carried my 2
many times) but again the law was changed a few years ago and that is now
prohibited. Now these are current California laws but they seem to change
each year.

Sorry to hear about your son's skateboard accident. Tell him that it is
great therapy while recovering to sit in front of a TC wheel and clean
spokes. OK, so I made that up but it is worth a try.

David Edgar, TC 5108
El Cajon, California