Wilsons Sandbox

Posted: **Thu Sep 29, 2005 2:49 am**

All,

I've just completed an engine rebuild, XPAG #3355.

Some of my "Detroit Iron" friends told me to put Comet or Ajax thru the Carbs.
This helps in setting the rings, I was told.

I have never heard of this before and considering that I grew up in a family of engine
mechanics I thought I would have.

Has anyone on the site ever heard of this before? Your Reponses, please.

Bruce
TC#2721 XPAG#3355

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Posted: **Thu Sep 29, 2005 4:05 am**

On Thu, 29 Sep 2005 05:48 -0400, Bruce Collins wrote:

> Some of my "Detroit Iron" friends told me to put Comet or Ajax thru the
> Carbs. This helps in setting the rings, I was told. I have never heard
> of this before and considering that I grew up in a family of engine
> mechanics I thought I would have. Has anyone on the site ever heard of
> this before? Your Reponses, please.

I've heard of that too, but have never know any professional mechanics
that do it. The theory is that the abrasive cleanser is sucked into the
cylinders through the carbs, hastens bedding in of the piston rings, and
is blown back out with the exhaust. It may or may not help the rings. I
really don't know. But it will not all be blown back out through the
exhaust. Some of it will be trapped in the ring grooves. Some will get
past the rings and down into the oil, where some of it will probably be
trapped in the oil filter but some will be splashed around inside the
engine. I'll let you decide whether or not abrasive particles trapped in
the rings and circulating through your engine are a good thing.

--
Chip Old 1948 M.G. TC
Cub Hill, Maryland, US TC6710 XPAG7430
fold@bcpl.net NEMGTR #2271

Posted: **Thu Sep 29, 2005 6:50 am**

Are you sure these people are your friends?????

Bruce Collins wrote:

> All,
>
> I've just completed an engine rebuild, XPAG #3355.
>
> Some of my "Detroit Iron" friends told me to put Comet or Ajax thru the Carbs.
> This helps in setting the rings, I was told.
>
> I have never heard of this before and considering that I grew up in a family of engine
> mechanics I thought I would have.
>
> Has anyone on the site ever heard of this before? Your Reponses, please.
>
> Bruce
> TC#2721 XPAG#3355
>
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>
>
> Yahoo! Groups Links
>
>
>
>

Posted: **Thu Sep 29, 2005 6:55 am**

Hello Bruce;

Yes, I have heard of it, but absolutely agree with Chip! I have never built
an XPAG engine, but have built many racing engines for cars and "Drag"
boats. The guy who taught me most of what I know regarding engines used to
tell me there were 4 C's. This could be expanded to 6 or 8 or even 10 if you
wish. They are: CLEAN, CLEARANCE, CLEAN, CLEARANCE........ If you built your
engine correctly with the proper honing of your cylinders and if you used
new rings that are properly gapped, and if you have proper ring groove gap,
and if you were meticulous in your building process about being clean, and
if you follow your ring manufacturers recommendations regarding break in,
then you should have no problems with the rings seating. It is true that the
abrasive might help in seating the rings, but the cost would be in bearing
clearances etc, etc.... I would never introduce an abrasive to the inside of
an engine. You will get enough from the stuff that comes off the inside of
the cylinder walls on its own. Incidentally I would recommend that you
change your oil and filter quite often during the break in simply to get as
much of the cylinder wall material out of the engine as soon as possible.
Oil is cheap in comparison to the time, labor and parts you invested into
your engine.

Hope this helps.

Bud Silvers
TC 8192
Black Forest, Colorado

PS: I am on the road (driving a new truck) near Dallas, Texas. I need to get
home for a TC fix....... Low Altitude and Enroute.....

-----Original Message-----
From: mg-tabc@yahoogroups.com [mailto:mg-tabc@yahoogroups.com]On Behalf
Of Bruce Collins
Sent: Thursday, September 29, 2005 3:49 AM
To: mg-tabc@yahoogroups.com
Subject: [mg-tabc] Engine Break In

All,

I've just completed an engine rebuild, XPAG #3355.

Some of my "Detroit Iron" friends told me to put Comet or Ajax thru the
Carbs.
This helps in setting the rings, I was told.

I have never heard of this before and considering that I grew up in a family
of engine
mechanics I thought I would have.

Has anyone on the site ever heard of this before? Your Reponses, please.

Bruce
TC#2721 XPAG#3355

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Yahoo! Groups Links

Posted: **Thu Sep 29, 2005 7:14 am**

I have seen Bon Ami used in a drag boat engine that had seating problems,
but don't see much use for it in a properly built engine.
Ajax or the other silica stuff would sure undo an engine pretty quickly.
Best,
Ray
"Spes mea in Deo est"

----- Original Message -----
From: "49 MG TC"
To: "Bruce Collins" ;
Sent: Thursday, September 29, 2005 8:54 AM
Subject: RE: [mg-tabc] Engine Break In

> Hello Bruce;
>
> Yes, I have heard of it, but absolutely agree with Chip! I have never
> built
> an XPAG engine, but have built many racing engines for cars and "Drag"
> boats. The guy who taught me most of what I know regarding engines used to
> tell me there were 4 C's. This could be expanded to 6 or 8 or even 10 if
> you
> wish. They are: CLEAN, CLEARANCE, CLEAN, CLEARANCE........ If you built
> your
> engine correctly with the proper honing of your cylinders and if you used
> new rings that are properly gapped, and if you have proper ring groove
> gap,
> and if you were meticulous in your building process about being clean, and
> if you follow your ring manufacturers recommendations regarding break in,
> then you should have no problems with the rings seating. It is true that
> the
> abrasive might help in seating the rings, but the cost would be in bearing
> clearances etc, etc.... I would never introduce an abrasive to the inside
> of
> an engine. You will get enough from the stuff that comes off the inside of
> the cylinder walls on its own. Incidentally I would recommend that you
> change your oil and filter quite often during the break in simply to get
> as
> much of the cylinder wall material out of the engine as soon as possible.
> Oil is cheap in comparison to the time, labor and parts you invested into
> your engine.
>
> Hope this helps.
>
> Bud Silvers
> TC 8192
> Black Forest, Colorado
>
> PS: I am on the road (driving a new truck) near Dallas, Texas. I need to
> get
> home for a TC fix....... Low Altitude and Enroute.....
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: mg-tabc@yahoogroups.com [mailto:mg-tabc@yahoogroups.com]On Behalf
> Of Bruce Collins
> Sent: Thursday, September 29, 2005 3:49 AM
> To: mg-tabc@yahoogroups.com
> Subject: [mg-tabc] Engine Break In
>
>
> All,
>
> I've just completed an engine rebuild, XPAG #3355.
>
> Some of my "Detroit Iron" friends told me to put Comet or Ajax thru the
> Carbs.
> This helps in setting the rings, I was told.
>
> I have never heard of this before and considering that I grew up in a
> family
> of engine
> mechanics I thought I would have.
>
> Has anyone on the site ever heard of this before? Your Reponses, please.
>
> Bruce
> TC#2721 XPAG#3355
>
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>
>
>
>
> Yahoo! Groups Links
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> Yahoo! Groups Links
>
>
>
>
>
>

Posted: **Thu Sep 29, 2005 7:24 am**

Bruce,
Here is my scenario, you have just qualified on the front row for an SCCA
regional race at the end of the season and you need a podium finish tomorrow
to qualify for the National Runoffs. On you cool down lap you accelerate out
of a slow turn and throw a rod through the block. Not to worry, you have a
freshly rebuilt short block in your trailer and can swap engines overnight
but you don't want to start the race tomorrow knowing that the rings won't
have seated yet and you will be down on power. Then and only then might you
be desperate enough to consider putting a mild abrasive through the intake
to quickly seat the rings, after all, you just need 25 laps or so before you
can pull the engine back out and tear it down.

Your 'Detroit Iron' friends sound like their engine break in methods were
learned years ago at the drag strip, where a fresh engine needs to produce
max power immediately but only for a few quarter mile runs. I don't imagine
either scenario is similar to your plans for XPAG 3355. Actually the idea of
a TC on a drag strip is kind of funny unless there were a flathead Ford or
small block Chevy under the bonnet, in which case it would only be good for
going in a straight line. Well, since I'm talking about a TC, I should say
'sort of a straight line'.

--
Frank
< frankgraham@msn.com >
______________________

----- Original Message -----
From: "Bruce Collins"
To:
Sent: Thursday, September 29, 2005 5:48 AM
Subject: [mg-tabc] Engine Break In

> All,
>
> I've just completed an engine rebuild, XPAG #3355.
>
> Some of my "Detroit Iron" friends told me to put Comet or Ajax thru the
Carbs.
> This helps in setting the rings, I was told.
>
> I have never heard of this before and considering that I grew up in a
family of engine
> mechanics I thought I would have.
>
> Has anyone on the site ever heard of this before? Your Reponses, please.
>
> Bruce
> TC#2721 XPAG#3355

Posted: **Thu Sep 29, 2005 7:27 am**

Ray;

That I can believe. There is a mentality among some drag boat racers that
they can "throw an engine together" and win races. There is also a bit of
extra clearance built into any racing engine as opposed to a street engine.
Longevity is usually not an issue with a racing engine. Most true racing
engines are torn down at much more frequent intervals than street engines.
Bon Ami etc would certainly give an engine extra clearance, but again, at a
cost I would not be willing to pay in excessive wear throughout the engine.

Bud Silvers
TC 8192
Black Forest, Colorado

-----Original Message-----
From: mg-tabc@yahoogroups.com [mailto:mg-tabc@yahoogroups.com]On Behalf
Of 1939mgtb
Sent: Thursday, September 29, 2005 8:14 AM
To: mg-tabc@yahoogroups.com
Subject: Re: [mg-tabc] Engine Break In

I have seen Bon Ami used in a drag boat engine that had seating problems,
but don't see much use for it in a properly built engine.
Ajax or the other silica stuff would sure undo an engine pretty quickly.
Best,
Ray
"Spes mea in Deo est"

----- Original Message -----
From: "49 MG TC"
To: "Bruce Collins" ;
Sent: Thursday, September 29, 2005 8:54 AM
Subject: RE: [mg-tabc] Engine Break In

> Hello Bruce;
>
> Yes, I have heard of it, but absolutely agree with Chip! I have never
> built
> an XPAG engine, but have built many racing engines for cars and "Drag"
> boats. The guy who taught me most of what I know regarding engines used to
> tell me there were 4 C's. This could be expanded to 6 or 8 or even 10 if
> you
> wish. They are: CLEAN, CLEARANCE, CLEAN, CLEARANCE........ If you built
> your
> engine correctly with the proper honing of your cylinders and if you used
> new rings that are properly gapped, and if you have proper ring groove
> gap,
> and if you were meticulous in your building process about being clean, and
> if you follow your ring manufacturers recommendations regarding break in,
> then you should have no problems with the rings seating. It is true that
> the
> abrasive might help in seating the rings, but the cost would be in bearing
> clearances etc, etc.... I would never introduce an abrasive to the inside
> of
> an engine. You will get enough from the stuff that comes off the inside of
> the cylinder walls on its own. Incidentally I would recommend that you
> change your oil and filter quite often during the break in simply to get
> as
> much of the cylinder wall material out of the engine as soon as possible.
> Oil is cheap in comparison to the time, labor and parts you invested into
> your engine.
>
> Hope this helps.
>
> Bud Silvers
> TC 8192
> Black Forest, Colorado
>
> PS: I am on the road (driving a new truck) near Dallas, Texas. I need to
> get
> home for a TC fix....... Low Altitude and Enroute.....
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: mg-tabc@yahoogroups.com [mailto:mg-tabc@yahoogroups.com]On Behalf
> Of Bruce Collins
> Sent: Thursday, September 29, 2005 3:49 AM
> To: mg-tabc@yahoogroups.com
> Subject: [mg-tabc] Engine Break In
>
>
> All,
>
> I've just completed an engine rebuild, XPAG #3355.
>
> Some of my "Detroit Iron" friends told me to put Comet or Ajax thru the
> Carbs.
> This helps in setting the rings, I was told.
>
> I have never heard of this before and considering that I grew up in a
> family
> of engine
> mechanics I thought I would have.
>
> Has anyone on the site ever heard of this before? Your Reponses, please.
>
> Bruce
> TC#2721 XPAG#3355
>
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>
>
>
>
> Yahoo! Groups Links
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> Yahoo! Groups Links
>
>
>
>
>
>

Yahoo! Groups Links

Posted: **Thu Sep 29, 2005 8:16 am**

Ray;

That I can believe. There is a mentality among some drag boat racers that
they can "throw an engine together" and win races. There is also a bit of
extra clearance built into any racing engine as opposed to a street engine.
Longevity is usually not an issue with a racing engine. Most true racing
engines are torn down at much more frequent intervals than street engines.
Bon Ami etc would certainly give an engine extra clearance, but again, at a
cost I would not be willing to pay in excessive wear throughout the engine.

Bud Silvers
TC 8192
Black Forest, Colorado

-----Original Message-----
From: mg-tabc@yahoogroups.com [mailto:mg-tabc@yahoogroups.com]On Behalf
Of 1939mgtb
Sent: Thursday, September 29, 2005 8:14 AM
To: mg-tabc@yahoogroups.com
Subject: Re: [mg-tabc] Engine Break In

I have seen Bon Ami used in a drag boat engine that had seating problems,
but don't see much use for it in a properly built engine.
Ajax or the other silica stuff would sure undo an engine pretty quickly.
Best,
Ray
"Spes mea in Deo est"

----- Original Message -----
From: "49 MG TC"
To: "Bruce Collins" ;
Sent: Thursday, September 29, 2005 8:54 AM
Subject: RE: [mg-tabc] Engine Break In

> Hello Bruce;
>
> Yes, I have heard of it, but absolutely agree with Chip! I have never
> built
> an XPAG engine, but have built many racing engines for cars and "Drag"
> boats. The guy who taught me most of what I know regarding engines used to
> tell me there were 4 C's. This could be expanded to 6 or 8 or even 10 if
> you
> wish. They are: CLEAN, CLEARANCE, CLEAN, CLEARANCE........ If you built
> your
> engine correctly with the proper honing of your cylinders and if you used
> new rings that are properly gapped, and if you have proper ring groove
> gap,
> and if you were meticulous in your building process about being clean, and
> if you follow your ring manufacturers recommendations regarding break in,
> then you should have no problems with the rings seating. It is true that
> the
> abrasive might help in seating the rings, but the cost would be in bearing
> clearances etc, etc.... I would never introduce an abrasive to the inside
> of
> an engine. You will get enough from the stuff that comes off the inside of
> the cylinder walls on its own. Incidentally I would recommend that you
> change your oil and filter quite often during the break in simply to get
> as
> much of the cylinder wall material out of the engine as soon as possible.
> Oil is cheap in comparison to the time, labor and parts you invested into
> your engine.
>
> Hope this helps.
>
> Bud Silvers
> TC 8192
> Black Forest, Colorado
>
> PS: I am on the road (driving a new truck) near Dallas, Texas. I need to
> get
> home for a TC fix....... Low Altitude and Enroute.....
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: mg-tabc@yahoogroups.com [mailto:mg-tabc@yahoogroups.com]On Behalf
> Of Bruce Collins
> Sent: Thursday, September 29, 2005 3:49 AM
> To: mg-tabc@yahoogroups.com
> Subject: [mg-tabc] Engine Break In
>
>
> All,
>
> I've just completed an engine rebuild, XPAG #3355.
>
> Some of my "Detroit Iron" friends told me to put Comet or Ajax thru the
> Carbs.
> This helps in setting the rings, I was told.
>
> I have never heard of this before and considering that I grew up in a
> family
> of engine
> mechanics I thought I would have.
>
> Has anyone on the site ever heard of this before? Your Reponses, please.
>
> Bruce
> TC#2721 XPAG#3355
>
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>
>
>
>
> Yahoo! Groups Links
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> Yahoo! Groups Links
>
>
>
>
>
>

Yahoo! Groups Links

Posted: **Thu Sep 29, 2005 9:33 am**

Dear Cuz Bruce:
Just was wondering if a straight weight mineral oil
might be a consideration. This is absolutely necessary on reciprocating aircraft
engines.
In days of yore I had an impossible situation when an
aircraft Mech used Mobil #1 Synthetic Aviation Oil after I had some jugs
(Aircraft Cylinders) replaced. Just would not seat the rings.
Tally Ho!
Thom Collins

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Posted: **Thu Sep 29, 2005 10:29 am**

On Thu, 29 Sep 2005 12:33 -0400, LuckyFloridaLin@aol.com wrote:

> Dear Cuz Bruce:
> Just was wondering if a straight weight mineral oil might be a
> consideration. This is absolutely necessary on reciprocating aircraft
> engines.
> In days of yore I had an impossible situation when an aircraft Mech
> used Mobil #1 Synthetic Aviation Oil after I had some jugs (Aircraft
> Cylinders) replaced. Just would not seat the rings.

An engine will break in with synthetic oil, but it will take a very long
time. If you want to use synthetic, break the engine in on mineral oil,
then switch to synthetic after the break in period. The mineral oil
doesn't have to be single viscosity, although you'll still here some
oltimers say "break it in on SAE 30 and switch to multi-viscosity later".
Multi-viscosity will work fine for break in, and in fact is better because
an SAE 10W-40 (for example) flows much faster at startup than plain SAE
30. You do *not* want the friction surfaces oil starved at any time, but
especially during break in.

--
Chip Old 1948 M.G. TC
Cub Hill, Maryland, US TC6710 XPAG7430
fold@bcpl.net NEMGTR #2271

Wilsons Sandbox

Re: Engine Break In

Engine Break In

Re: Engine Break In

Re: Engine Break In

Re: Engine Break In

Re: Engine Break In

Re: Engine Break In

Re: Engine Break In

Re: Engine Break In

Re: Engine Break In

Re: Engine Break In