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Another rear axle question.
Posted: Fri Jul 15, 2005 2:47 am
by Andrew Clayton
Having recently moved house, some of my boxes are still in storage (currently inaccessible) and unfortunately my TC Instruction & repair manuals are in those boxes.
I have to take out my rear half shaft axles tomorrow morning but, not having done it before, I'm not confident about the correct way to do it. Would someone be kind enough to give me a quick rundown on what to do and if there are any traps for the unwary. I have had a look at a Moss catalogue and I can't see anything to worry about but I admit this is not the best guide.
Your help would be most appreciated,
Cheers,
Andrew Clayton
TC 4054
Melbourne, Australia.
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Re: Another rear axle question.
Posted: Fri Jul 15, 2005 5:54 am
by Gene
Andrew wrote:
>I have to take out my rear half shaft axles tomorrow morning but,
not having done it before, I'm not confident about the correct way to
do it.
Re: Another rear axle question.
Posted: Fri Jul 15, 2005 6:11 am
by Peter Roberts
Andrew,
Procedure as follows:
1. Removing the rear half-shafts is simple....and often frustrating.
Assuming your have a good reason for doing so, begin by chilling several
brews. This will provide a convenient excuse for taking a breather and will
tend to reduce the amount of profanity required.
2. Remove road wheel.
3. Remove brake drum. When brake drum refuses to come off, remind yourself
to turn the adjusters fully down (i.e. released).
4. Replace knock-off. Rap on inner ear of knock-off to loosen half-shaft.
5. When half-shaft refuses to loosen, refer to Para. #1.
6. Repeat procedure for other half-shaft. Referring to Para #1, pray that
it will loosen.
7. If other half-shaft refuses to loosen, give the whole thing up and finish
Para. #1.
8. On the odd chance that one of the half-shafts actually loosens,
replenish your supply of brews, you will need them. Do not be surprised if
the shaft hangs up just as you have it almost out. The burrs on the inner
splines that built up from those jack-rabbit starts are hanging up on the
brass oil-thrower bushing located just inside the axle tube. Jerk the
half-shaft out and order new bushings.
9. To remove the other half-shaft that refuses to loosen, obtain a length
of 1/2" metal rod that is at least as long as the half-shaft. Slide this
down the open tube and fish until it fits through the spiders and is in
contact with the inner end of the #@#!! half-shaft. Refer to Para #1. Now,
give the rod some terrific whacks.
10. The next day, take two aspirin, and go to the garage and glare at the
cursed thing. Give the rod some more terrific whacks.
11. Invite the neighbor kid to give the rod some whacks. Nod sagely when he
gets the shaft to loosen. Re-read Para. #1.
12. After you have the half-shaft out, inspect your rear brake shoes.
Admire the fine patina of oil that has built up on them. Order new linings.
Order Bob Grunau's hub nuts with integral oil seal. Ask him to supply the
SpeediSleeves needed. Go to store (Sears) and buy a 2 inch socket for
removing the hub nuts (it makes a great paper weight). When the oil thrower
bushings arrive, remove the old ones (see Para. #1 for this procedure).
Replace the new bushings and drive them about 1" in from the end of the axle
tube so that the SpeediSleeves will fit up in the tube.
Think carefully. Do you really want to do this?
_Peter
----- Original Message -----
From: "Andrew Clayton" andyc@alphalink.com.au>
To: mg-tabc@yahoogroups.com>
Sent: Friday, July 15, 2005 5:47 AM
Subject: [mg-tabc] Another rear axle question.
> Having recently moved house, some of my boxes are still in storage
> (currently inaccessible) and unfortunately my TC Instruction & repair
> manuals are in those boxes.
>
> I have to take out my rear half shaft axles tomorrow morning but, not
> having done it before, I'm not confident about the correct way to do it.
> Would someone be kind enough to give me a quick rundown on what to do and
> if there are any traps for the unwary. I have had a look at a Moss
> catalogue and I can't see anything to worry about but I admit this is not
> the best guide.
>
> Your help would be most appreciated,
>
> Cheers,
>
> Andrew Clayton
> TC 4054
> Melbourne, Australia.
>
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>
>
>
>
> Yahoo! Groups Links
>
>
>
>
>
>
Re: Another rear axle question.
Posted: Fri Jul 15, 2005 9:44 am
by DougPulver@aol.com
My dear Mr. Roberts,
I certainly wish I had read this before the very long and exasperating experience with my rear axles. Rule number 1 seems to be the most important step and the one most often overlooked. The swearing on my part was partially reduced due to the influence of some people I know (notably Jim Alcorn) who seem to be able to do much of this work without swearing - but I'm still trying to learn and often relapse to the language of my military days.
In addition to what you mentioned, I also ran into problems with the bearing carrier studs where one side was rethreaded to course by a previous owner and one replacement stud which turned to butter on the hand tightening reinstall of the nut - which of course caused me to have to remove everything all over again.
Additionally, it seems that my hub was not sufficiently affixed to the axle (hammer tight rather than 6,000 - 12,000 foot pounds) so installing the speedi-sleeve caused the hub to sit farther outside than it should which caused the axle and hub then not to seat on reinstall. I have since ordered everything new from Bob Grunau.
This group has been wonderful in helping me. My wife and I just returned from GOF west in Buellton, CA (location for the recent movie "Sideways") where we were able to meet many TABC members and actually drive our TC. I would still be wrestling with the rear axle without the help of many people.
Andrew, keep the faith and know that it will all work out with patience, the advice of this group, oh and don't forget rule #1.
Doug Pulver
TC 5850
San Diego, CA
-----Original Message-----
From: Peter Roberts mgtc@comcast.net>
To: Andrew Clayton andyc@alphalink.com.au>
Cc:
mg-tabc@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Fri, 15 Jul 2005 09:11:18 -0400
Subject: Re: [mg-tabc] Another rear axle question.
Andrew,
Procedure as follows:
1. Removing the rear half-shafts is simple....and often frustrating.
Assuming your have a good reason for doing so, begin by chilling several
brews. This will provide a convenient excuse for taking a breather and will
tend to reduce the amount of profanity required.
2. Remove road wheel.
3. Remove brake drum. When brake drum refuses to come off, remind yourself
to turn the adjusters fully down (i.e. released).
4. Replace knock-off. Rap on inner ear of knock-off to loosen half-shaft.
5. When half-shaft refuses to loosen, refer to Para. #1.
6. Repeat procedure for other half-shaft. Referring to Para #1, pray that
it will loosen.
7. If other half-shaft refuses to loosen, give the whole thing up and finish
Para. #1.
8. On the odd chance that one of the half-shafts actually loosens,
replenish your supply of brews, you will need them. Do not be surprised if
the shaft hangs up just as you have it almost out. The burrs on the inner
splines that built up from those jack-rabbit starts are hanging up on the
brass oil-thrower bushing located just inside the axle tube. Jerk the
half-shaft out and order new bushings.
9. To remove the other half-shaft that refuses to loosen, obtain a length
of 1/2" metal rod that is at least as long as the half-shaft. Slide this
down the open tube and fish until it fits through the spiders and is in
contact with the inner end of the #@#!! half-shaft. Refer to Para #1. Now,
give the rod some terrific whacks.
10. The next day, take two aspirin, and go to the garage and glare at the
cursed thing. Give the rod some more terrific whacks.
11. Invite the neighbor kid to give the rod some whacks. Nod sagely when he
gets the shaft to loosen. Re-read Para. #1.
12. After you have the half-shaft out, inspect your rear brake shoes.
Admire the fine patina of oil that has built up on them. Order new linings.
Order Bob Grunau's hub nuts with integral oil seal. Ask him to supply the
SpeediSleeves needed. Go to store (Sears) and buy a 2 inch socket for
removing the hub nuts (it makes a great paper weight). When the oil thrower
bushings arrive, remove the old ones (see Para. #1 for this procedure).
Replace the new bushings and drive them about 1" in from the end of the axle
tube so that the SpeediSleeves will fit up in the tube.
Think carefully. Do you really want to do this?
_Peter
----- Original Message -----
From: "Andrew Clayton" andyc@alphalink.com.au>
To: mg-tabc@yahoogroups.com>
Sent: Friday, July 15, 2005 5:47 AM
Subject: [mg-tabc] Another rear axle question.
> Having recently moved house, some of my boxes are still in storage
> (currently inaccessible) and unfortunately my TC Instruction & repair
> manuals are in those boxes.
>
> I have to take out my rear half shaft axles tomorrow morning but, not
> having done it before, I'm not confident about the correct way to do it.
> Would someone be kind enough to give me a quick rundown on what to do and
> if there are any traps for the unwary. I have had a look at a Moss
> catalogue and I can't see anything to worry about but I admit this is not
> the best guide.
>
> Your help would be most appreciated,
>
> Cheers,
>
> Andrew Clayton
> TC 4054
> Melbourne, Australia.
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Re: Another rear axle question.
Posted: Fri Jul 15, 2005 10:02 am
by Peter Roberts
Doug,
You trial with the studs reminds me of an experience I had with my old four
banger Austin Healey. I was doing 70MPH on the Interstate when the car
behind me lost a road wheel, It came bounding past me and into the ditch.
When I looked to see what happened, I discovered no one was behind me! My
weight was all that was needed to keep me balanced on three wheels.
We discovered that all five lug studs had sheared and that they were made
from very soft steel.
Years later, I had an opportunity to ask Donald Healey why they had used
very soft steel for those lug studs. Donald got a 40 mile stare and and then
said, "Well, you see, all the fellows were taking the car to hill climbs and
breaking the half-shafts. Those were on warrenty." To this day, I don't
know if he was pulling my leg.
_Peter
Re: Another rear axle question.
Posted: Sun Jul 17, 2005 2:50 am
by Andrew Clayton
Many thanks to those who replied to my plea with helpful advice. Thankfully,
the job turned out to be pretty easy just as Gene said although the screws
that he suggested that could be used as "pullers" were missing and, to my
mind, are pretty redundant anyway. Does anyone know what purpose they serve?
Anyway, Peter's suggestion about screwing the spinners on and then hitting
them with a hammer worked a treat.
And yes, I would love to use Bob Gruneau's stuff but my car is a bit of a
mongrel and has a non-standard diff. Thus I have to have the half-shafts
custom made which is why I needed to remove an old one to use as a pattern.
Once again the advice and humour of the group has proved invaluable and it
is very much appreciated.
Cheers,
Andrew Clayton
TC 4054
Melbourne, Australia.
----- Original Message -----
From: DougPulver@aol.com>
To: mg-tabc@yahoogroups.com>
Cc: autovint@pacbell.net>; classicbrit@shaw.ca>
Sent: Saturday, July 16, 2005 2:43 AM
Subject: Re: [mg-tabc] Another rear axle question.
> My dear Mr. Roberts,
>
> I certainly wish I had read this before the very long and exasperating
> experience with my rear axles. Rule number 1 seems to be the most
> important step and the one most often overlooked. The swearing on my part
> was partially reduced due to the influence of some people I know (notably
> Jim Alcorn) who seem to be able to do much of this work without swearing -
> but I'm still trying to learn and often relapse to the language of my
> military days.
>
> In addition to what you mentioned, I also ran into problems with the
> bearing carrier studs where one side was rethreaded to course by a
> previous owner and one replacement stud which turned to butter on the hand
> tightening reinstall of the nut - which of course caused me to have to
> remove everything all over again.
>
> Additionally, it seems that my hub was not sufficiently affixed to the
> axle (hammer tight rather than 6,000 - 12,000 foot pounds) so installing
> the speedi-sleeve caused the hub to sit farther outside than it should
> which caused the axle and hub then not to seat on reinstall. I have since
> ordered everything new from Bob Grunau.
>
> This group has been wonderful in helping me. My wife and I just returned
> from GOF west in Buellton, CA (location for the recent movie "Sideways")
> where we were able to meet many TABC members and actually drive our TC. I
> would still be wrestling with the rear axle without the help of many
> people.
>
> Andrew, keep the faith and know that it will all work out with patience,
> the advice of this group, oh and don't forget rule #1.
>
> Doug Pulver
> TC 5850
> San Diego, CA
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Peter Roberts mgtc@comcast.net>
> To: Andrew Clayton andyc@alphalink.com.au>
> Cc:
mg-tabc@yahoogroups.com
> Sent: Fri, 15 Jul 2005 09:11:18 -0400
> Subject: Re: [mg-tabc] Another rear axle question.
>
>
> Andrew,
>
> Procedure as follows:
>
> 1. Removing the rear half-shafts is simple....and often frustrating.
> Assuming your have a good reason for doing so, begin by chilling several
> brews. This will provide a convenient excuse for taking a breather and
> will
> tend to reduce the amount of profanity required.
>
> 2. Remove road wheel.
>
> 3. Remove brake drum. When brake drum refuses to come off, remind
> yourself
> to turn the adjusters fully down (i.e. released).
>
> 4. Replace knock-off. Rap on inner ear of knock-off to loosen half-shaft.
>
> 5. When half-shaft refuses to loosen, refer to Para. #1.
>
> 6. Repeat procedure for other half-shaft. Referring to Para #1, pray that
> it will loosen.
>
> 7. If other half-shaft refuses to loosen, give the whole thing up and
> finish
> Para. #1.
>
> 8. On the odd chance that one of the half-shafts actually loosens,
> replenish your supply of brews, you will need them. Do not be surprised
> if
> the shaft hangs up just as you have it almost out. The burrs on the inner
> splines that built up from those jack-rabbit starts are hanging up on the
> brass oil-thrower bushing located just inside the axle tube. Jerk the
> half-shaft out and order new bushings.
>
> 9. To remove the other half-shaft that refuses to loosen, obtain a length
> of 1/2" metal rod that is at least as long as the half-shaft. Slide this
> down the open tube and fish until it fits through the spiders and is in
> contact with the inner end of the #@#!! half-shaft. Refer to Para #1.
> Now,
> give the rod some terrific whacks.
>
> 10. The next day, take two aspirin, and go to the garage and glare at the
> cursed thing. Give the rod some more terrific whacks.
>
> 11. Invite the neighbor kid to give the rod some whacks. Nod sagely when
> he
> gets the shaft to loosen. Re-read Para. #1.
>
> 12. After you have the half-shaft out, inspect your rear brake shoes.
> Admire the fine patina of oil that has built up on them. Order new
> linings.
> Order Bob Grunau's hub nuts with integral oil seal. Ask him to supply the
> SpeediSleeves needed. Go to store (Sears) and buy a 2 inch socket for
> removing the hub nuts (it makes a great paper weight). When the oil
> thrower
> bushings arrive, remove the old ones (see Para. #1 for this procedure).
> Replace the new bushings and drive them about 1" in from the end of the
> axle
> tube so that the SpeediSleeves will fit up in the tube.
>
> Think carefully. Do you really want to do this?
>
> _Peter
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Andrew Clayton" andyc@alphalink.com.au>
> To: mg-tabc@yahoogroups.com>
> Sent: Friday, July 15, 2005 5:47 AM
> Subject: [mg-tabc] Another rear axle question.
>
>
>> Having recently moved house, some of my boxes are still in storage
>> (currently inaccessible) and unfortunately my TC Instruction & repair
>> manuals are in those boxes.
>>
>> I have to take out my rear half shaft axles tomorrow morning but, not
>> having done it before, I'm not confident about the correct way to do it.
>> Would someone be kind enough to give me a quick rundown on what to do and
>> if there are any traps for the unwary. I have had a look at a Moss
>> catalogue and I can't see anything to worry about but I admit this is not
>> the best guide.
>>
>> Your help would be most appreciated,
>>
>> Cheers,
>>
>> Andrew Clayton
>> TC 4054
>> Melbourne, Australia.
>
>
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>
>
>
>
> Yahoo! Groups Links
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> --
> No virus found in this incoming message.
> Checked by AVG Anti-Virus.
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>
>
Re: Another rear axle question.
Posted: Mon Jul 18, 2005 8:17 pm
by Peter Ross
Andrew asked what the csk screws in the brake drums are for. Nobody has
answered yet, so here goes:
I have often wondered, and the only reason I can think of is that the brake
drums are common to something like a Morris 10 or Wolseley which have
bolt-on wheels. (They pre-date the Y-type) The studs in their hubs would
have to be longer to take the lug nuts. When changing a wheel by the side
of the road, those csk screws would prevent the brake drum from falling off
and/or preventing the hub separating from the bearing carrier if the wheel
had become stuck to the brake drum.
We might agree they seem to have no purpose on a TC other than as a
sophisticated hub separator.
Cheers,
Peter Ross
TC 8892
Bolton, Massachusetts
----- Original Message -----
From: "Andrew Clayton" andyc@alphalink.com.au>
To: mg-tabc@yahoogroups.com>
Sent: Sunday, July 17, 2005 5:46 AM
Subject: Re: [mg-tabc] Another rear axle question.
> Does anyone know what purpose they serve?
>
Re: Another rear axle question.
Posted: Mon Jul 18, 2005 10:04 pm
by Richard Fritz
I have always assumed that those screws serve the purpose of centering the
brake drum onto the hub. I always put them in and make sure the drums will
spin freely before putting on the half-nuts and tightening them down. I
believe this procedure avoids distorting the drums.
Richard Fritz, TC6649, Longmont Colorado USA
----- Original Message -----
From: "Peter Ross" boltonmg@comcast.net>
To: mg-tabc@yahoogroups.com>; "Andrew Clayton" andyc@alphalink.com.au>
Sent: Monday, July 18, 2005 9:11 PM
Subject: Re: [mg-tabc] Another rear axle question.
> Andrew asked what the csk screws in the brake drums are for. Nobody has
> answered yet, so here goes:
>
>
> We might agree they seem to have no purpose on a TC other than as a
> sophisticated hub separator.
>
Re: Another rear axle question.
Posted: Tue Jul 19, 2005 1:47 am
by ian thomson
Even modern cars normally have such a fastening, often doubling as a spigot for locating the wheel when changing it. The reason is obvious when you come to work on the brakes as any disturbance of the shoes will require them to be recentred before they are adjusted. Without the countersunk bolts (in our case) it would be impossible to get the drum fully home into the correct running position without putting the wheel on and tightening it up. It would then have to be removed again to get at the adjusters (unless you have arms like an ape and eyes like a hawk - which may apply to some of us but not me). So the reson for them is to make servicing of the brakes, and the wheels and tyres, that little bit easier.
Ian Thomson
Richard Fritz RBFritz@comcast.net> wrote:
I have always assumed that those screws serve the purpose of centering the
brake drum onto the hub. I always put them in and make sure the drums will
spin freely before putting on the half-nuts and tightening them down. I
believe this procedure avoids distorting the drums.
Richard Fritz, TC6649, Longmont Colorado USA
----- Original Message -----
From: "Peter Ross"
To: ; "Andrew Clayton"
Sent: Monday, July 18, 2005 9:11 PM
Subject: Re: [mg-tabc] Another rear axle question.
> Andrew asked what the csk screws in the brake drums are for. Nobody has
> answered yet, so here goes:
>
>
> We might agree they seem to have no purpose on a TC other than as a
> sophisticated hub separator.
>
Yahoo! Groups Links
---------------------------------
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[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Re: Another rear axle question.
Posted: Thu Jul 28, 2005 8:37 am
by Roger Furneaux
hi Guys - Pete is quite right, since "our" cars are mostly Morris-derived.
The hub-separation aspect works very well, I used it only last week! And it
goes without saying (but I'm going to anyway!) that I stock these screws
along with every other TA/B/C fixing. Very soon, hopefully, Walter will be
able to put my list in the classified or the technical sections.
ocTagonally
TCRoger, in soggy Devon, SW England (no, wait, the sun just came out!)
Pete Ross wrote:
>Andrew asked what the csk screws in the brake drums are for. Nobody has
>answered yet, so here goes:
>
>I have often wondered, and the only reason I can think of is that the brake
>drums are common to something like a Morris 10 or Wolseley which have
>bolt-on wheels. (They pre-date the Y-type) The studs in their hubs would
>have to be longer to take the lug nuts. When changing a wheel by the side
>of the road, those csk screws would prevent the brake drum from falling off
>and/or preventing the hub separating from the bearing carrier if the wheel
>had become stuck to the brake drum.
>
>We might agree they seem to have no purpose on a TC other than as a
>sophisticated hub separator.