Brake failure

[Clive P Sherriff]

Well, If you're testing to destruction on the road, make darned sure your handbrake works !   Clive m mmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmm    

----- Original Message ----- [b]From:[/b] burburyclose@yahoo.com [mg-tabc] [b]To:[/b] mg-tabc@yahoogroups.com [b]Sent:[/b] Monday, February 06, 2017 10:02 PM [b]Subject:[/b] [mg-tabc] Brake Failure   Thanks to all of you for your ideas. I checked the brake lines,MC, etc with no indication of leakage. Then I bled the line out. Much air in there. The brakes came back after bleeding. Perhaps when I tested the brakes HARD the day before, I explosed some intermittent crack etc in the system which only shows up with hard use. I plan to give it a rigorous test after my diff comes back from being worked over. I'm on pins and needles driving it now and will try to break the fault during the next hard test. I'll keep the group informed. Thanks again. Jim Davis TC 7225 Houston [img]https://ec.yimg.com/ec?url=http%3A%2F%2Fstatic.avast.com%2Femails%2Favast-mail-stamp.png&t=1522511307&sig=buTuqKlILoq8Td3U0PoR6g--~D[/img] This email has been checked for viruses by Avast antivirus software. www.avast.com

[Clive P Sherriff]

Norman, If as I suggested at the start, there is a problem with the master cylinder seals, then it's quite possible that air has been sucked into the master cylinder by the pedal strokes.   Clive m mmmmmmmmmmmmmmm    

----- Original Message ----- [b]From:[/b] norman@frenchblat.com [mg-tabc] [b]To:[/b] burburyclose@yahoo.com ; mg-tabc@yahoogroups.com [b]Sent:[/b] Monday, February 06, 2017 10:42 PM [b]Subject:[/b] RE: [mg-tabc] Brake Failure   Jim,

Something wrong with your statement. If there is air in the system then the fluid that was in there must have leaked out.  I suspect you do have a leak otherwise the air cannot get into the system.

Think of a bottle which is full of water. To get more water in, or air, then the water in the bottle must overflow.

[b]Norman Verona[/b]

La Foie, 49520, Noellet, France

Tel: 0033 (0)2 41 92 73 44

Mob: 0033 (0)7 70 70 23 79

Website: www FrenchBlat com (put dots in the spaces)

[b]From:[/b] mg-tabc@yahoogroups.com [mailto:mg-tabc@yahoogroups.com] [b]On Behalf Of [/b]James Davis burburyclose@yahoo.com [mg-tabc] [b]Sent:[/b] 06 February 2017 23:03 [b]To:[/b] Mg-Tabc mg-tabc@yahoogroups.com> [b]Subject:[/b] [mg-tabc] Brake Failure

 

Thanks to all of you for your ideas. I checked the brake lines,MC, etc with no indication of leakage. Then I bled the line out. Much air in there. The brakes came back after bleeding. Perhaps when I tested the brakes HARD the day before, I explosed some intermittent crack etc in the system which only shows up with hard use. I plan to give it a rigorous test after my diff comes back from being worked over. I'm on pins and needles driving it now and will try to break the fault during the next hard test. I'll keep the group informed. Thanks again. Jim Davis TC 7225 Houston

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[Stephen D Stierman]

I had a continual problems with air entering the braking system, likely coming via wheel cylinder(s) that may have been seeping slightly, don't discard that end of the system as the problem.  Bleeding would result in a hard peddle that over time would become softer in use.Steve TC2911 [b]From:[/b] "James Davis burburyclose@yahoo.com [mg-tabc]" mg-tabc-noreply@yahoogroups.com> [b]To:[/b] Mg-Tabc mg-tabc@yahoogroups.com> [b]Sent:[/b] Monday, February 6, 2017 5:02 PM [b]Subject:[/b] [mg-tabc] Brake Failure   Thanks to all of you for your ideas. I checked the brake lines,MC, etc with no indication of leakage. Then I bled the line out. Much air in there. The brakes came back after bleeding. Perhaps when I tested the brakes HARD the day before, I explosed some intermittent crack etc in the system which only shows up with hard use. I plan to give it a rigorous test after my diff comes back from being worked over. I'm on pins and needles driving it now and will try to break the fault during the next hard test. I'll keep the group informed. Thanks again. Jim Davis TC 7225 Houston #ygrps-yiv-706725489 #ygrps-yiv-706725489yiv2892169675 #ygrps-yiv-706725489yiv2892169675 -- #ygrps-yiv-706725489yiv2892169675ygrp-mkp { border:1px solid #d8d8d8;font-family:Arial;margin:10px 0;padding:0 10px;} #ygrps-yiv-706725489 #ygrps-yiv-706725489yiv2892169675 #ygrps-yiv-706725489yiv2892169675ygrp-mkp hr { border:1px solid #d8d8d8;} #ygrps-yiv-706725489 #ygrps-yiv-706725489yiv2892169675 #ygrps-yiv-706725489yiv2892169675ygrp-mkp #ygrps-yiv-706725489yiv2892169675hd { color:#628c2a;font-size:85%;font-weight:700;line-height:122%;margin:10px 0;} #ygrps-yiv-706725489 #ygrps-yiv-706725489yiv2892169675 #ygrps-yiv-706725489yiv2892169675ygrp-mkp #ygrps-yiv-706725489yiv2892169675ads { margin-bottom:10px;} #ygrps-yiv-706725489 #ygrps-yiv-706725489yiv2892169675 #ygrps-yiv-706725489yiv2892169675ygrp-mkp .ygrps-yiv-706725489yiv2892169675ad { padding:0 0;} #ygrps-yiv-706725489 #ygrps-yiv-706725489yiv2892169675 #ygrps-yiv-706725489yiv2892169675ygrp-mkp 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[Steve S]

Agreed. Air can definitely come in past the wheel cylinder cups. No leak necessary. If the master cylinder returns faster than the brake shoes, air can be pulled in. Ensure the brake springs are all in correct working condition to prevent it from happening. - Steve Simmons, TC8975 On 2/6/2017 5:26 PM, Stephen D Stierman morgan7709@sbcglobal.net [mg-tabc] wrote:

I had a continual problems with air entering the braking system, likely coming via wheel cylinder(s) that may have been seeping slightly, don't discard that end of the system as the problem. Bleeding would result in a hard peddle that over time would become softer in use. Steve TC2911 [b]From:[/b] "James Davis burburyclose@yahoo.com [mg-tabc]" mg-tabc-noreply@yahoogroups.com [b]To:[/b] Mg-Tabc mg-tabc@yahoogroups.com [b]Sent:[/b] Monday, February 6, 2017 5:02 PM [b]Subject:[/b] [mg-tabc] Brake Failure Thanks to all of you for your ideas. I checked the brake lines,MC, etc with no indication of leakage. Then I bled the line out. Much air in there. The brakes came back after bleeding. Perhaps when I tested the brakes HARD the day before, I explosed some intermittent crack etc in the system which only shows up with hard use. I plan to give it a rigorous test after my diff comes back from being worked over. I'm on pins and needles driving it now and will try to break the fault during the next hard test. I'll keep the group informed. Thanks again. Jim Davis TC 7225 Houston

[Stephen D Stierman]

Suggest pulling your drums and popping up the boots of each cylinder and closely examining the inside of the boots for weeping fluid, easily seen with a good lamp.Steve TC2911 [b]From:[/b] "Steve S mail@mgnuts.com [mg-tabc]" mg-tabc-noreply@yahoogroups.com> [b]To:[/b] MG tabcgroups MG-tabc@yahoogroups.com> [b]Sent:[/b] Monday, February 6, 2017 8:48 PM [b]Subject:[/b] Re: [mg-tabc] Brake Failure   Agreed.  Air can definitely come in past the wheel cylinder cups.  No leak necessary.  If the master cylinder returns faster than the brake shoes, air can be pulled in.  Ensure the brake springs are all in correct working condition to prevent it from happening. - Steve Simmons, TC8975 On 2/6/2017 5:26 PM, Stephen D Stierman morgan7709@sbcglobal.net [mg-tabc] wrote:

  I had a continual problems with air entering the braking system, likely coming via wheel cylinder(s) that may have been seeping slightly, don't discard that end of the system as the problem.  Bleeding would result in a hard peddle that over time would become softer in use. Steve TC2911 [b]From:[/b] "James Davis burburyclose@yahoo.com [mg-tabc]" mg-tabc-noreply@yahoogroups.com [b]To:[/b] Mg-Tabc mg-tabc@yahoogroups.com [b]Sent:[/b] Monday, February 6, 2017 5:02 PM [b]Subject:[/b] [mg-tabc] Brake Failure   Thanks to all of you for your ideas. I checked the brake lines,MC, etc with no indication of leakage. Then I bled the line out. Much air in there. The brakes came back after bleeding. Perhaps when I tested the brakes HARD the day before, I explosed some intermittent crack etc in the system which only shows up with hard use. I plan to give it a rigorous test after my diff comes back from being worked over. I'm on pins and needles driving it now and will try to break the fault during the next hard test. I'll keep the group informed. Thanks again. Jim Davis TC 7225 Houston

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[Chip Hellie]

Like Clive my bet is its a problem with the master cylinder. If its full of fluid then it's internal. Chiphelli Sent from Yahoo Mail on Android

On Tue, Feb 7, 2017 at 3:45 PM, 'Clive P Sherriff' csherriff99@gmail.com [mg-tabc]mg-tabc-noreply@yahoogroups.com> wrote:   Norman, If as I suggested at the start, there is a problem with the master cylinder seals, then it's quite possible that air has been sucked into the master cylinder by the pedal strokes.   Clive m mmmmmmmmmmmmmmm     ----- Original Message ----- [b]From:[/b] mg-tabc-noreply@yahoogroups.com">'Norman Verona' norman@frenchblat.com [mg-tabc] [b]To:[/b] burburyclose@yahoo.com">'James Davis' ; mg-tabc@yahoogroups.com">'Mg-Tabc' [b]Sent:[/b] Monday, February 06, 2017 10:42 PM [b]Subject:[/b] RE: [mg-tabc] Brake Failure   Jim,

Something wrong with your statement. If there is air in the system then the fluid that was in there must have leaked out.  I suspect you do have a leak otherwise the air cannot get into the system.

Think of a bottle which is full of water. To get more water in, or air, then the water in the bottle must overflow.

[b]Norman Verona[/b]

La Foie, 49520, Noellet, France

Tel: 0033 (0)2 41 92 73 44

Mob: 0033 (0)7 70 70 23 79

Website: www FrenchBlat com (put dots in the spaces)

[b]From:[/b] mg-tabc@yahoogroups.com [mailto:mg-tabc@yahoogroups.com] [b]On Behalf Of [/b]James Davis burburyclose@yahoo.com [mg-tabc] [b]Sent:[/b] 06 February 2017 23:03 [b]To:[/b] Mg-Tabc mg-tabc@yahoogroups.com> [b]Subject:[/b] [mg-tabc] Brake Failure

 

Thanks to all of you for your ideas. I checked the brake lines,MC, etc with no indication of leakage. Then I bled the line out. Much air in there. The brakes came back after bleeding. Perhaps when I tested the brakes HARD the day before, I explosed some intermittent crack etc in the system which only shows up with hard use. I plan to give it a rigorous test after my diff comes back from being worked over. I'm on pins and needles driving it now and will try to break the fault during the next hard test. I'll keep the group informed. Thanks again. Jim Davis TC 7225 Houston

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[n.truck]

I've seen pinhole cracks in the rubber flex lines (including rear line to diff) allow air to enter, but too tiny for fluid leaks. But it seems very odd that all 4 wheel cylinders had air. Could be tiny crack in metal line near MC.Norman

[quote]

[/quote]

[Norman Verona]

Clive, in which case the fluid would be coming out of the top of the master. All I’m saying is that if a system is full of fluid to get air in some fluid must come out. Do you disagree with this?

 

[b]Norman Verona[/b]

La Foie, 49520, Noellet, France

Tel: 0033 (0)2 41 92 73 44

Mob: 0033 (0)7 70 70 23 79

Website: www FrenchBlat com (put dots in the spaces)

 

[b]From:[/b] Clive P Sherriff [mailto:csherriff99@gmail.com] [b]Sent:[/b] 08 February 2017 00:46 [b]To:[/b] Norman Verona norman@frenchblat.com>; 'James Davis' burburyclose@yahoo.com>; 'Mg-Tabc' mg-tabc@yahoogroups.com> [b]Subject:[/b] Re: [mg-tabc] Brake Failure

 

Norman, If as I suggested at the start, there is a problem with the master cylinder seals, then it's quite possible that air has been sucked into the master cylinder by the pedal strokes.

 

Clive

m mmmmmmmmmmmmmmm

 

 

----- Original Message -----

[b]From:[/b] norman@frenchblat.com%20[mg-tabc]

[b]To:[/b] burburyclose@yahoo.com ; mg-tabc@yahoogroups.com

[b]Sent:[/b] Monday, February 06, 2017 10:42 PM

[b]Subject:[/b] RE: [mg-tabc] Brake Failure

 

 

Jim,

Something wrong with your statement. If there is air in the system then the fluid that was in there must have leaked out.  I suspect you do have a leak otherwise the air cannot get into the system.

Think of a bottle which is full of water. To get more water in, or air, then the water in the bottle must overflow.

[b]Norman Verona[/b]

La Foie, 49520, Noellet, France

Tel: 0033 (0)2 41 92 73 44

Mob: 0033 (0)7 70 70 23 79

Website: www FrenchBlat com (put dots in the spaces)

[b]From:[/b] mg-tabc@yahoogroups.com [mg-tabc@yahoogroups.com] [b]On Behalf Of [/b]James Davis burburyclose@yahoo.com [mg-tabc] [b]Sent:[/b] 06 February 2017 23:03 [b]To:[/b] Mg-Tabc mg-tabc@yahoogroups.com> [b]Subject:[/b] [mg-tabc] Brake Failure

 

Thanks to all of you for your ideas. I checked the brake lines,MC, etc with no indication of leakage. Then I bled the line out. Much air in there. The brakes came back after bleeding. Perhaps when I tested the brakes HARD the day before, I explosed some intermittent crack etc in the system which only shows up with hard use. I plan to give it a rigorous test after my diff comes back from being worked over. I'm on pins and needles driving it now and will try to break the fault during the next hard test. I'll keep the group informed. Thanks again. Jim Davis TC 7225 Houston

 

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[Norman Verona]

Clive, by the way I agree that’s probably the problem but it could be a leaking wheel cylinder or pipe.

 

[b]Norman Verona[/b]

La Foie, 49520, Noellet, France

Tel: 0033 (0)2 41 92 73 44

Mob: 0033 (0)7 70 70 23 79

Website: www FrenchBlat com (put dots in the spaces)

 

[b]From:[/b] Clive P Sherriff [mailto:csherriff99@gmail.com] [b]Sent:[/b] 08 February 2017 00:46 [b]To:[/b] Norman Verona norman@frenchblat.com>; 'James Davis' burburyclose@yahoo.com>; 'Mg-Tabc' mg-tabc@yahoogroups.com> [b]Subject:[/b] Re: [mg-tabc] Brake Failure

 

Norman, If as I suggested at the start, there is a problem with the master cylinder seals, then it's quite possible that air has been sucked into the master cylinder by the pedal strokes.

 

Clive

m mmmmmmmmmmmmmmm

 

 

----- Original Message -----

[b]From:[/b] norman@frenchblat.com%20[mg-tabc]

[b]To:[/b] burburyclose@yahoo.com ; mg-tabc@yahoogroups.com

[b]Sent:[/b] Monday, February 06, 2017 10:42 PM

[b]Subject:[/b] RE: [mg-tabc] Brake Failure

 

 

Jim,

Something wrong with your statement. If there is air in the system then the fluid that was in there must have leaked out.  I suspect you do have a leak otherwise the air cannot get into the system.

Think of a bottle which is full of water. To get more water in, or air, then the water in the bottle must overflow.

[b]Norman Verona[/b]

La Foie, 49520, Noellet, France

Tel: 0033 (0)2 41 92 73 44

Mob: 0033 (0)7 70 70 23 79

Website: www FrenchBlat com (put dots in the spaces)

[b]From:[/b] mg-tabc@yahoogroups.com [mg-tabc@yahoogroups.com] [b]On Behalf Of [/b]James Davis burburyclose@yahoo.com [mg-tabc] [b]Sent:[/b] 06 February 2017 23:03 [b]To:[/b] Mg-Tabc mg-tabc@yahoogroups.com> [b]Subject:[/b] [mg-tabc] Brake Failure

 

Thanks to all of you for your ideas. I checked the brake lines,MC, etc with no indication of leakage. Then I bled the line out. Much air in there. The brakes came back after bleeding. Perhaps when I tested the brakes HARD the day before, I explosed some intermittent crack etc in the system which only shows up with hard use. I plan to give it a rigorous test after my diff comes back from being worked over. I'm on pins and needles driving it now and will try to break the fault during the next hard test. I'll keep the group informed. Thanks again. Jim Davis TC 7225 Houston

 

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[Norman Verona]

Steve,

 

In which case the fluid would be overflowing from the master.

 

[b]Norman Verona[/b]

La Foie, 49520, Noellet, France

Tel: 0033 (0)2 41 92 73 44

Mob: 0033 (0)7 70 70 23 79

Website: www FrenchBlat com (put dots in the spaces)

 

[b]From:[/b] mg-tabc@yahoogroups.com [mailto:mg-tabc@yahoogroups.com] [b]On Behalf Of [/b]Steve S mail@mgnuts.com [mg-tabc] [b]Sent:[/b] 07 February 2017 02:48 [b]To:[/b] MG tabcgroups MG-tabc@yahoogroups.com> [b]Subject:[/b] Re: [mg-tabc] Brake Failure

 

 

Agreed.  Air can definitely come in past the wheel cylinder cups.  No leak necessary.  If the master cylinder returns faster than the brake shoes, air can be pulled in.  Ensure the brake springs are all in correct working condition to prevent it from happening. - Steve Simmons, TC8975  

On 2/6/2017 5:26 PM, Stephen D Stierman morgan7709@sbcglobal.net [mg-tabc] wrote:

 

I had a continual problems with air entering the braking system, likely coming via wheel cylinder(s) that may have been seeping slightly, don't discard that end of the system as the problem.  Bleeding would result in a hard peddle that over time would become softer in use.

Steve TC2911

 

[b]From:[/b] "James Davis burburyclose@yahoo.com [mg-tabc]" mg-tabc-noreply@yahoogroups.com [b]To:[/b] Mg-Tabc mg-tabc@yahoogroups.com [b]Sent:[/b] Monday, February 6, 2017 5:02 PM [b]Subject:[/b] [mg-tabc] Brake Failure

 

 

Thanks to all of you for your ideas. I checked the brake lines,MC, etc with no indication of leakage. Then I bled the line out. Much air in there. The brakes came back after bleeding. Perhaps when I tested the brakes HARD the day before, I explosed some intermittent crack etc in the system which only shows up with hard use. I plan to give it a rigorous test after my diff comes back from being worked over. I'm on pins and needles driving it now and will try to break the fault during the next hard test. I'll keep the group informed. Thanks again. Jim Davis TC 7225 Houston