Wilsons Sandbox

> Dear Castrol, lubes marketing, > TITLE : Mr. > FIRST NAME : Robert > LAST NAME : Brennan > EMAIL ADDRESS : mgtc7794@gmail.com > CATEGORY : Product query > QUESTION : I own a 1949 MG TC that has used Castrol 20w50 for the last > 25 years. Is this the oil you would recommend or am I better off > switching to another Castrol product. I intend forwarding your advice to > the MG T-ABC users group. Thanks > > > HERE IS THE REPLY I RECEIVED FROM John Gamston, Automotive Technical at Castrol UK: > > > Robert, as always, there is not a straight definitive answer I can give > you. Deep breath... > > We have until recently had two 20W-50 car engine oils. One was called > Castrol Merit, a modern formulation, one was called Classic XL 20W-50, a > classic style oil with very low detergent. > > If you have been a classic oil like the XL 20W-50 (or one of the classic > monogrades like XL30 or XXL 40) then it is best to stick with that oil, > changing it regularly, until you re-build the engine. Whilst a modern > oil will provide better protection in all aspects, I do not suggest that > you change to a modern oil if it has run for an appreciable length of > time (say 10 years or more) on a classic oil. > > The reason for this is that with low levels of detergent / dispersant, > any sludge and products of combustion that find their way into the oil > gets deposited mainly in the sump and any other 'dead' areas of oil > flow. If you change to a modern oil without taking the engine apart to > clean the components, the detergent system in the modern oil (which > works by holding sludge and products of combustion in suspension, so > that they are removed with the oil when it's drained) will be > overloaded. This will result in the oil dragging large lumps of > contaminant around the engine, causing possible blocking of oilways. It > may also dislodge sludge that has formed seals in the engine where > rubber etc. may have perished, and you may find that the engine starts > to 'seep'. The above is also true of a flushing oil, which I do not > recommend you use to 'clean' the inside of your engine. > > If the engine has recently been re-built, or it has been running on an > oil with 'modern' levels of detergent, then you should use this modern > oil. Unfortunately, there is nothing now in the Castrol range in a > 20W-50 grade with a modern level of detergent now that Merit has been > discontinued. The closest thing we do will be a 15W-40 oil. This *may* > be ok to use - you will see a lower oil pressure as the oil is thinner, > but with a lower pressure you get a higher throughput of oil, so the > protection is effectively the same, if not better. However, engines (and > importantly oil pumps) built to loose tolerances may find that the > 15W-40 is just a little too thin. Without firsthand experience of how > the MG-Tx engines run on the thinner oil, I wouldn't like to say that > they would definitely be suitable, although my gut feeling is to say > that for a re-built or reconditioned engine the 15W-40 oil would be > suitable. > > (As a further aside here, if the 15W-40 mineral oil (now called GTX High > Mileage) is considered suitable, then GTX Magnatec 15W-40, a > semi-synthetic oil will be suitable too and provide even better > protection. Synthetics used to have problems with regard to seal > compatibility, but now they are absolutely safe to use and offer better > protection in all areas of operation compared with mineral oils. They > are also compatible with other mineral oils, and so you can fill with a > synthetic after a mineral, and can top up a synthetic using a mineral > oil. For high performance engines with 'modern' tolerances in pistons / > valves etc used for fast road or racing, a fully synthetic oil would be > perfectly suitable here. We offer a product called Formula RS 10W-60, a > fully synthetic racing oil that is also suitable for the road. This > offers advantages over semi-synthetic and mineral oils in terms of > reducing engine wear, promoting engine cleanliness, stability at high > temperatures and over time, and low temperature flow. If an engine is > recently re-built / re-conditioned, we do not recommend synthetic oils > over the first 500 - 1000 miles, engines do not run in well on synthetic > oils). > > If a modern 20W-50 is called for, the group that owns Castrol also now > owns Duckhams, and Duckhams Q 20W-50 is a mineral oil of modern additive > levels. > > I hope the above helps. In essence, my advice is as follows: > - A modern oil is best, but only use it with re-built / re-conditioned > engines or if modern oils have been used previously - otherwise it is > better to stay with a classic-type oil > - Synthetics are great in re-built / re-conditioned engines after the > run-in period. > - 20W-50 is probably preferable, but 15W-40 may also be suitable, > especially in re-built / re-conditioned engines. > > Kind Regards > John Gamston > Automotive Technical > > PS for reference, Castrol GTX 15W-50 is considered an oil with 'modern' > detergent levels.

>That's good advice about the problems associated with switching from a >non-detergent or low-detergent oil to a high-detergent oil. However the >Castrol oils he described are those sold in the UK and possibly elsewhere >in the world. The Castrol GTX 10W-40 and 20W-50 sold in the US are >entirely different animals. They are and always has been high-detergent >oils. > >In the real world the problems he described are unlikely to occur unless >you are putting back on the road (without rebuilding) an engine that was >last run 40 or more years ago when non-detergent oil was still common, or >unless you're one of those people who has been going out of his way to >find and use non-detergent or low-detergent oil. High-detergent oil has >been mainstream for so long now, it just isn't an issue for most owners. > > >

On Thu, 17 Feb 2005 09:31 -0500, JoeCurto@aol.com wrote: > Chip I agree with you 100% BUT do not ASSUME anything. We had a > local British car mechanic (who recently passed away) who had all his > customers cars serviced with 30 weight NON-Detergent oil. We inherited > some of his customers who religiously serviced there cars with him, well > need I say that in 30 years of my automotive experience I never saw so > much sludge in an MGB engine, they looked like those old Chevy motors > that never had an oil change in 80,000 miles. > > I also had some old American car experience and that anti high > detergent oil had its roots in the 1950s when US cars did not have oil > filters installed from the factory, 1949 Pontiac , 1954 chevy and I > think some Fords only had as an accessory a thing called a by-pass > filter, so imagine everyone's surprise when oil companies touted High > Detergent oil and some guy with a well maintained Chevy of the period > decided to be progressive and install High detergent oil, I am sure it > was like you know what through the proverbial goose. > > Castrol sells in the New York area a thing called High Mileage oil, I > have used it in the shop one most of the questionable cars and it works > well > > One last word to the drivers of modern cars I have been seeing an > awful lot of straight 30 weight detergent oil here in New York at these > chain gas stations, and it would seem odd that new autos running around > on 5-30 weight these chains are stocking straight weight, so if you have > the attendant service your oil at the pump make sure that they use a > multi weight. > > Joe Curto > -- Chip Old (Francis E. Old) E-Mail: fold@bcpl.net BCPL Network Administrator Phone: 410-887-6180 BCPL.NET Internet Services Manager FAX: 410-887-2091 Baltimore County Public Library 320 York Road Towson, MD 21204-5179 USA

On Thu, 17 Feb 2005 09:31 -0500, JoeCurto@aol.com wrote: > Chip I agree with you 100% BUT do not ASSUME anything. We had a > local British car mechanic (who recently passed away) who had all his > customers cars serviced with 30 weight NON-Detergent oil. We inherited > some of his customers who religiously serviced there cars with him, well > need I say that in 30 years of my automotive experience I never saw so > much sludge in an MGB engine, they looked like those old Chevy motors > that never had an oil change in 80,000 miles. > > I also had some old American car experience and that anti high > detergent oil had its roots in the 1950s when US cars did not have oil > filters installed from the factory, 1949 Pontiac , 1954 chevy and I > think some Fords only had as an accessory a thing called a by-pass > filter, so imagine everyone's surprise when oil companies touted High > Detergent oil and some guy with a well maintained Chevy of the period > decided to be progressive and install High detergent oil, I am sure it > was like you know what through the proverbial goose. > > Castrol sells in the New York area a thing called High Mileage oil, I > have used it in the shop one most of the questionable cars and it works > well > > One last word to the drivers of modern cars I have been seeing an > awful lot of straight 30 weight detergent oil here in New York at these > chain gas stations, and it would seem odd that new autos running around > on 5-30 weight these chains are stocking straight weight, so if you have > the attendant service your oil at the pump make sure that they use a > multi weight. > > Joe Curto > -- Chip Old (Francis E. Old) E-Mail: fold@bcpl.net BCPL Network Administrator Phone: 410-887-6180 BCPL.NET Internet Services Manager FAX: 410-887-2091 Baltimore County Public Library 320 York Road Towson, MD 21204-5179 USA Yahoo! Groups Links

On Thu, 17 Feb 2005 09:31 -0500, JoeCurto@aol.com wrote: > Chip I agree with you 100% BUT do not ASSUME anything. We had a > local British car mechanic (who recently passed away) who had all his > customers cars serviced with 30 weight NON-Detergent oil. We inherited > some of his customers who religiously serviced there cars with him, well > need I say that in 30 years of my automotive experience I never saw so > much sludge in an MGB engine, they looked like those old Chevy motors > that never had an oil change in 80,000 miles. > > I also had some old American car experience and that anti high > detergent oil had its roots in the 1950s when US cars did not have oil > filters installed from the factory, 1949 Pontiac , 1954 chevy and I > think some Fords only had as an accessory a thing called a by-pass > filter, so imagine everyone's surprise when oil companies touted High > Detergent oil and some guy with a well maintained Chevy of the period > decided to be progressive and install High detergent oil, I am sure it > was like you know what through the proverbial goose. > > Castrol sells in the New York area a thing called High Mileage oil, I > have used it in the shop one most of the questionable cars and it works > well > > One last word to the drivers of modern cars I have been seeing an > awful lot of straight 30 weight detergent oil here in New York at these > chain gas stations, and it would seem odd that new autos running around > on 5-30 weight these chains are stocking straight weight, so if you have > the attendant service your oil at the pump make sure that they use a > multi weight. > > Joe Curto > -- Chip Old (Francis E. Old) E-Mail: fold@bcpl.net BCPL Network Administrator Phone: 410-887-6180 BCPL.NET Internet Services Manager FAX: 410-887-2091 Baltimore County Public Library 320 York Road Towson, MD 21204-5179 USA Yahoo! Groups Links Yahoo! Groups Links

----- Original Message ----- From: "Dave Abramson" davea@symbolicdisplays.com> To: mg-tabc@yahoogroups.com> Sent: Thursday, February 17, 2005 10:35 AM Subject: [mg-tabc] Castrol Enquiry > > Hello T-ABC'ers!!! > > I have a 48" TC that sat long enough to have ALL the brake fluid dry > up...(or leak out) I filled the engine with Castrol 20/50 and ran the car > about 100 miles.... Then changed to Mobile 1 Syn. (5-50) I was careful > to > change to oil filter and oil every 500 miles...... (to get out all the > junk.......) 3000 miles now, and she is running great! Have "Red Line" > products > in the Gearbox and Diff...... only the best!!!!!! I have had success so > far.... but, I am not saying for others to do it this way..... > > > Dave > > 48',58',63' MG's....... > > > > > I worked as a mechanic from 1955-1960 and saw firsthand the dramatic > differences between detergent oils and non-detergent oils with regard to > sludge buildup. Maybe the old guy was creating business for himself as > surely he was privy to the same information. > Fred TC1353 > > -----Original Message----- > From: Chip Old [mailto:fold@bcpl.net] > Sent: Thursday, February 17, 2005 6:43 AM > To: MG-TABC > Subject: Re: [mg-tabc] Castrol Enquiry > > > Yes, if the car has been serviced by someone other than the owner, and if > the owner doesn't know what oil has been used, then all bets are off. > > The old guy was actually servicing customer cars with single-viscosity > non-detergent oil? Was he nuts, or just stuck in the 1950s? > > On Thu, 17 Feb 2005 09:31 -0500, JoeCurto@aol.com wrote: > >> Chip I agree with you 100% BUT do not ASSUME anything. We had a >> local British car mechanic (who recently passed away) who had all his >> customers cars serviced with 30 weight NON-Detergent oil. We inherited >> some of his customers who religiously serviced there cars with him, well >> need I say that in 30 years of my automotive experience I never saw so >> much sludge in an MGB engine, they looked like those old Chevy motors >> that never had an oil change in 80,000 miles. >> >> I also had some old American car experience and that anti high >> detergent oil had its roots in the 1950s when US cars did not have oil >> filters installed from the factory, 1949 Pontiac , 1954 chevy and I >> think some Fords only had as an accessory a thing called a by-pass >> filter, so imagine everyone's surprise when oil companies touted High >> Detergent oil and some guy with a well maintained Chevy of the period >> decided to be progressive and install High detergent oil, I am sure it >> was like you know what through the proverbial goose. >> >> Castrol sells in the New York area a thing called High Mileage oil, I >> have used it in the shop one most of the questionable cars and it works >> well >> >> One last word to the drivers of modern cars I have been seeing an >> awful lot of straight 30 weight detergent oil here in New York at these >> chain gas stations, and it would seem odd that new autos running around >> on 5-30 weight these chains are stocking straight weight, so if you have >> the attendant service your oil at the pump make sure that they use a >> multi weight. >> >> Joe Curto >> > > -- > Chip Old (Francis E. Old) E-Mail: fold@bcpl.net > BCPL Network Administrator Phone: 410-887-6180 > BCPL.NET Internet Services Manager FAX: 410-887-2091 > Baltimore County Public Library > 320 York Road > Towson, MD 21204-5179 USA > > > > Yahoo! Groups Links > > > > > > > > > > > > > Yahoo! Groups Links > > > > > > > > > > > > Yahoo! Groups Links > > > > > > >

> I worked as a mechanic from 1955-1960 and saw firsthand the dramatic > differences between detergent oils and non-detergent oils with regard to > sludge buildup. Maybe the old guy was creating business for himself as > surely he was privy to the same information.