Wilsons Sandbox

Roland,

 

Welcome to the madhouse. You ll get good advice, but not all the same

 

There s a paper on how to set up the TC Bishops Cam steering somewhere, if you need it I ll scan mine in and send it to you. However, it s just a matter of common sense. Assuming the front axle isn t bent and has been assembled the right way round, make sure the drag links are adjusted so there s no play and replace any worn ball joints. Check the king pins don t have excess play. I would remove the top cover of the steering box and check that the inner surface is smooth. If not I rubbed mine down on a flatbed with fine emery cloth the get the wear ring out. Then refit the top plate with no shims and keep adding the shims until the steering is not tight. At this point you should have an inch or so movement at the wheel but it shouldn t wander all over the road. Don t drive it hanging on to the steering wheel, the steering is so highly geared that this will cause the car to yaw side to side. Just let the wheel rest in your hands without gripping tightly.

 

The above is the easy way, if you have a full workshop there is a more sophisticated method of setting the adjustment to the steering box.

 

I ve found an article on TC steering by Eric Worple. It s here: http://ttypes.org/ttt2/keeping-it-on-the-straight-and-narrow-aspects-that-affect-tatbtc-steering-part-7 It also gives the dates of the other parts so you ll be able to find them.

 

If you don t get Totally T Types it s well worth downloading each month. Also, if you haven t already joined it s worth joining the MG Octagon Car Club. It s a club for pre 1956 MG s so our TC s are well covered and they have lots of spares at reasonable prices.

 

[b][u]Norman Verona aka "Email Norman"[/u][/b]

11 Cherry close, Royston, S71 4LZ

Mob: 0741 9905 741

Web: www.frenchblat.com

 

[b]From:[/b] mg-tabc@yahoogroups.com mg-tabc@yahoogroups.com> [b]On Behalf Of [/b]Roland Crisp rolycrisp@yahoo.co.uk [mg-tabc] [b]Sent:[/b] 09 July 2019 17:54 [b]To:[/b] mg-tabc@yahoogroups.com [b]Subject:[/b] [mg-tabc] Re: Welcome new member Roland Crisp

 

 

Mike,

 

Thanks for the kind welcome.

 

I live in Oxfordshire, England and bought my 1948 TC about two weeks ago.

 

It was exported new to Melbourne, Australia and covered well over 120,000 miles until the last owner bought it in 1966. He finished restoring it some 40 years later whence it spent its life on axle stands in his living room !!!

 

It was re-imported to England last year and I am now the proud owner of  TC5951/XPAG6574.

 

Now to sort out the steering, it's frightening at present,

 

Regards,

 

Roland Crisp

 

 

 

 

Roland, Welcome! Get used to the steering....it's scary at best. When I bought mine the front axle was in backwards. Now THAT was scary!! Check and see, the axle stamping numbers should face the rear of the car. Otherwise, it will track beautifully when reversing...and go where ever the road ruts decide while going forward. Cheers, Ross [b]From: [/b]"Roland Crisp rolycrisp@yahoo.co.uk [mg-tabc]" mg-tabc-noreply@yahoogroups.com> [b]To: [/b]"mg-tabc" mg-tabc@yahoogroups.com> [b]Sent: [/b]Tuesday, 9 July, 2019 09:54:22 [b]Subject: [/b][mg-tabc] Re: Welcome new member Roland Crisp  

Mike, Thanks for the kind welcome. I live in Oxfordshire, England and bought my 1948 TC about two weeks ago. It was exported new to Melbourne, Australia and covered well over 120,000 miles until the last owner bought it in 1966. He finished restoring it some 40 years later whence it spent its life on axle stands in his living room !!! It was re-imported to England last year and I am now the proud owner of  TC5951/XPAG6574. Now to sort out the steering, it's frightening at present, Regards, Roland Crisp

#ygrps-yiv-1166139549 P {margin-top:0;margin-bottom:0;} Roland, There is a very unorthodox solution to the Bishop Cam steering "situation", that I'll mention below.  The TC I had back in the 60's XPAG 5036, was stock and I struggled to rebuild the Bishop Cam box more than once.  The problem was the single pin would wear where it contacted the worm gear and become slightly oval in contour.  Adjust it tight, to eliminate play, and it would bind at either end of a turn. At the time, I didn't have the resources to regrind it to make it concentric again.  I tried pressing it out of the sector shaft and rotating it 90 degrees but that was a poor solution.  Shimming was a nightmare. Back in the 60's when my reflexes were sharper, but XPAG 5036 was like threading a needle on a rolling ship, couldn't be quite be sure where it would be after the next 100 yards.  My recently acquired TC, 7437EXU, came with a modified VW steering box. It is a dream to drive.  Not correct or purist, but my heart can no longer bear the suspense of waiting for the next course deviation!   The VW steering box was one of the main reasons I choose this car. Ralph Shepard Ferrisburgh, VT. [b]From:[/b] mg-tabc@yahoogroups.com mg-tabc@yahoogroups.com> on behalf of 'arm@telus.net' arm@telus.net [mg-tabc] mg-tabc-noreply@yahoogroups.com> [b]Sent:[/b] Tuesday, July 9, 2019 6:54 PM [b]To:[/b] Roland Crisp [b]Cc:[/b] mg-tabc [b]Subject:[/b] Re: [mg-tabc] Re: Welcome new member Roland Crisp    

Roland, Welcome! Get used to the steering....it's scary at best. When I bought mine the front axle was in backwards. Now THAT was scary!! Check and see, the axle stamping numbers should face the rear of the car. Otherwise, it will track beautifully when reversing...and go where ever the road ruts decide while going forward. Cheers, Ross From: "Roland Crisp rolycrisp@yahoo.co.uk [mg-tabc]" mg-tabc-noreply@yahoogroups.com> To: "mg-tabc" mg-tabc@yahoogroups.com> Sent: Tuesday, 9 July, 2019 09:54:22 Subject: [mg-tabc] Re: Welcome new member Roland Crisp  

Mike, Thanks for the kind welcome. I live in Oxfordshire, England and bought my 1948 TC about two weeks ago. It was exported new to Melbourne, Australia and covered well over 120,000 miles until the last owner bought it in 1966. He finished restoring it some 40 years later whence it spent its life on axle stands in his living room !!! It was re-imported to England last year and I am now the proud owner of  TC5951/XPAG6574. Now to sort out the steering, it's frightening at present, Regards, Roland Crisp

Another "Welcome!" from the USA!  You will find once your TC is dialed in it will be a joy to drive, with nimble  steering and handling - mine are rock solid straight even at 70 mph. Advice you're received on this forum is pretty sound so far. I'll add a general sequence of items to pay attention to.  Details on specs and "how to" is available from prior recommended sources.

[*]Springs - and the bushing mount points - all need to be in good shape.  Good rubber, proper amount of 'spring' (even with no sagging), all bolts/nuts properly tightened.[*]Caster, Camber, and toe-in all need to be correct.  Axle not bent, correctly installed with toe in set.[*]King pins and wheel bearings in good condition with no undue play (none at all is best).[*]Tie rod and drag link ends properly assembled, with no wear on the balls or cups; no broken springs.[*]Steering box - no wear on critical components (all are critical, really).[*]Steering wheel (and column) properly tightened so there is no play there.

With "frightening steering" it's probably best to address all these things, following a sequence.  Should you need some professional help (always good), ask Clive; as he's in Oxfordshire  I'm sure he'll have a recommendation. Andy King is an excellent choice, but he's a ways up north for you. Next time I'm in the UK I'll see if I can get in touch when I'm up to Abingdon and we could get together to say hello. Cheers, Tom WIlson Zionsville IN USA TC0273 TC0279 TC2040 VA1508  BGT LE50-09 plus 11 MMMs

Ralph,

 

Sorry to contradict but a correctly set up Bishops Cam box will be fine. Mine drives in a straight line and doesn’t wander. Fitting lower geared steering boxes is usually covering up poorly set up standard steering.

 

 

 

[b][u]Norman Verona aka "Email Norman"[/u][/b]

11 Cherry close, Royston, S71 4LZ

Mob: 0741 9905 741

Web: www.frenchblat.com

 

[b]From:[/b] mg-tabc@yahoogroups.com mg-tabc@yahoogroups.com> [b]On Behalf Of [/b]Ralph Shepard mayo_shep@msn.com [mg-tabc] [b]Sent:[/b] 10 July 2019 00:21 [b]To:[/b] Roland Crisp rolycrisp@yahoo.co.uk>; arm@telus.net [b]Cc:[/b] mg-tabc mg-tabc@yahoogroups.com> [b]Subject:[/b] [mg-tabc] Re: Welcome new member Roland Crisp

 

 

Roland,

There is a very unorthodox solution to the Bishop Cam steering "situation", that I'll mention below.  The TC I had back in the 60's XPAG 5036, was stock and I struggled to rebuild the Bishop Cam box more than once.  The problem was the single pin would wear where it contacted the worm gear and become slightly oval in contour.  Adjust it tight, to eliminate play, and it would bind at either end of a turn.

 

At the time, I didn't have the resources to regrind it to make it concentric again.  I tried pressing it out of the sector shaft and rotating it 90 degrees but that was a poor solution.  Shimming was a nightmare. Back in the 60's when my reflexes were sharper, but XPAG 5036 was like threading a needle on a rolling ship, couldn't be quite be sure where it would be after the next 100 yards.  My recently acquired TC, 7437EXU, came with a modified VW steering box. It is a dream to drive.  Not correct or purist, but my heart can no longer bear the suspense of waiting for the next course deviation!   The VW steering box was one of the main reasons I choose this car.

Ralph Shepard

Ferrisburgh, VT.

 

[b]From:[/b] mg-tabc@yahoogroups.com mg-tabc@yahoogroups.com> on behalf of 'arm@telus.net' arm@telus.net [mg-tabc] mg-tabc-noreply@yahoogroups.com> [b]Sent:[/b] Tuesday, July 9, 2019 6:54 PM [b]To:[/b] Roland Crisp [b]Cc:[/b] mg-tabc [b]Subject:[/b] Re: [mg-tabc] Re: Welcome new member Roland Crisp

 

 

Roland,

Welcome! Get used to the steering....it's scary at best. When I bought mine the front axle was in backwards. Now THAT was scary!! Check and see, the axle stamping numbers should face the rear of the car. Otherwise, it will track beautifully when reversing...and go where ever the road ruts decide while going forward.

 

Cheers,

Ross

 

[b]From: [/b]"Roland Crisp rolycrisp@yahoo.co.uk [mg-tabc]" mg-tabc-noreply@yahoogroups.com> [b]To: [/b]"mg-tabc" mg-tabc@yahoogroups.com> [b]Sent: [/b]Tuesday, 9 July, 2019 09:54:22 [b]Subject: [/b][mg-tabc] Re: Welcome new member Roland Crisp

 

 

Mike,

 

Thanks for the kind welcome.

 

I live in Oxfordshire, England and bought my 1948 TC about two weeks ago.

 

It was exported new to Melbourne, Australia and covered well over 120,000 miles until the last owner bought it in 1966. He finished restoring it some 40 years later whence it spent its life on axle stands in his living room !!!

 

It was re-imported to England last year and I am now the proud owner of  TC5951/XPAG6574.

 

Now to sort out the steering, it's frightening at present,

 

Regards,

 

Roland Crisp

 

 

 

 

 

Thanks to one and all for such a kind welcome, I'm sorting out through the steering components and shall report back. It does have a Tompkins steering kit fitted, so I'll pay attention to that as well, Cheers, Roland

On Wednesday, 10 July 2019, 03:38:06 BST, twilson@indy.rr.com [mg-tabc] mg-tabc-noreply@yahoogroups.com> wrote:

  Another "Welcome!" from the USA!  You will find once your TC is dialed in it will be a joy to drive, with nimble  steering and handling - mine are rock solid straight even at 70 mph. Advice you're received on this forum is pretty sound so far. I'll add a general sequence of items to pay attention to.  Details on specs and "how to" is available from prior recommended sources.

[*]Springs - and the bushing mount points - all need to be in good shape.  Good rubber, proper amount of 'spring' (even with no sagging), all bolts/nuts properly tightened.[*]Caster, Camber, and toe-in all need to be correct.  Axle not bent, correctly installed with toe in set.[*]King pins and wheel bearings in good condition with no undue play (none at all is best).[*]Tie rod and drag link ends properly assembled, with no wear on the balls or cups; no broken springs.[*]Steering box - no wear on critical components (all are critical, really).[*]Steering wheel (and column) properly tightened so there is no play there.

With "frightening steering" it's probably best to address all these things, following a sequence.  Should you need some professional help (always good), ask Clive; as he's in Oxfordshire  I'm sure he'll have a recommendation. Andy King is an excellent choice, but he's a ways up north for you. Next time I'm in the UK I'll see if I can get in touch when I'm up to Abingdon and we could get together to say hello. Cheers, Tom WIlson Zionsville IN USA TC0273 TC0279 TC2040 VA1508  BGT LE50-09 plus 11 MMMs

Hi Roland,

 

Please be aware of some issues with older Tomkins kits.  The problem is .. you think you have adjusted the setup but the kit thrust washers are too large and rest on the steering box body resulting in excessive play.

 

See both written and video tech tip on my website.  Scroll down to Steering

https://www.fromtheframeup.com/Tech_Tips.html

 

Welcome aboard,

 

[b][i]Doug Pelton[/i][/b]

 

From The Frame Up

4064 E. Presidio St.  #104

Mesa, AZ  85215

480-588-8185

 

For fastest service:  order@fromtheframeup.com

Check out our website:   www.FromTheFrameUp.com

Keep up to date with:      FaceBook

 

[b]From:[/b] mg-tabc@yahoogroups.com mg-tabc@yahoogroups.com> [b]On Behalf Of [/b]Roland Crisp rolycrisp@yahoo.co.uk [mg-tabc] [b]Sent:[/b] Wednesday, July 10, 2019 8:12 AM [b]To:[/b] mg-tabc@yahoogroups.com; twilson@indy.rr.com [b]Subject:[/b] Re: [mg-tabc] Re: Welcome new member Roland Crisp

 

 

Thanks to one and all for such a kind welcome, I'm sorting out through the steering components and shall report back.

 

It does have a Tompkins steering kit fitted, so I'll pay attention to that as well,

 

Cheers, Roland

 

On Wednesday, 10 July 2019, 03:38:06 BST, twilson@indy.rr.com [mg-tabc] mg-tabc-noreply@yahoogroups.com> wrote:

 

 

 

Another "Welcome!" from the USA!  You will find once your TC is dialed in it will be a joy to drive, with nimble  steering and handling - mine are rock solid straight even at 70 mph. Advice you're received on this forum is pretty sound so far. I'll add a general sequence of items to pay attention to.  Details on specs and "how to" is available from prior recommended sources. Springs - and the bushing mount points - all need to be in good shape.  Good rubber, proper amount of 'spring' (even with no sagging), all bolts/nuts properly tightened. Caster, Camber, and toe-in all need to be correct.  Axle not bent, correctly installed with toe in set. King pins and wheel bearings in good condition with no undue play (none at all is best). Tie rod and drag link ends properly assembled, with no wear on the balls or cups; no broken springs. Steering box - no wear on critical components (all are critical, really). Steering wheel (and column) properly tightened so there is no play there. With "frightening steering" it's probably best to address all these things, following a sequence.  Should you need some professional help (always good), ask Clive; as he's in Oxfordshire  I'm sure he'll have a recommendation. Andy King is an excellent choice, but he's a ways up north for you. Next time I'm in the UK I'll see if I can get in touch when I'm up to Abingdon and we could get together to say hello. Cheers, Tom WIlson Zionsville IN USA TC0273 TC0279 TC2040 VA1508  BGT LE50-09 plus 11 MMMs

Roland, There is another issue I discovered in tinkering with TC2911. New king pins, adjusted Tompkins kit, etc. etc. there is always a bit of free play in the box but it should not be excessive and there is not much you can do about it. I noticed in the specifications of the TA, and TB, the toe in is set at 1/2", the TC is 1/4" I believe. On a whim, I set the toe to 1/2" and the car was transformed. I no longer had to constantly adjust the wheel to keep it in a straight line and the steering was much more responsive to turn in. With 1/2" the car does track straight and even though you still have a bit of free play, you constantly do not have to correct to keep it in a straight line. Steve TC2911 On Wednesday, July 10, 2019, 11:19:57 AM EDT, Roland Crisp rolycrisp@yahoo.co.uk [mg-tabc] mg-tabc-noreply@yahoogroups.com> wrote:   Thanks to one and all for such a kind welcome, I'm sorting out through the steering components and shall report back. It does have a Tompkins steering kit fitted, so I'll pay attention to that as well, Cheers, Roland On Wednesday, 10 July 2019, 03:38:06 BST, twilson@indy.rr.com [mg-tabc] mg-tabc-noreply@yahoogroups.com> wrote:   Another "Welcome!" from the USA!  You will find once your TC is dialed in it will be a joy to drive, with nimble  steering and handling - mine are rock solid straight even at 70 mph. Advice you're received on this forum is pretty sound so far. I'll add a general sequence of items to pay attention to.  Details on specs and "how to" is available from prior recommended sources.

[*]Springs - and the bushing mount points - all need to be in good shape.  Good rubber, proper amount of 'spring' (even with no sagging), all bolts/nuts properly tightened.[*]Caster, Camber, and toe-in all need to be correct.  Axle not bent, correctly installed with toe in set.[*]King pins and wheel bearings in good condition with no undue play (none at all is best).[*]Tie rod and drag link ends properly assembled, with no wear on the balls or cups; no broken springs.[*]Steering box - no wear on critical components (all are critical, really).[*]Steering wheel (and column) properly tightened so there is no play there.

With "frightening steering" it's probably best to address all these things, following a sequence.  Should you need some professional help (always good), ask Clive; as he's in Oxfordshire  I'm sure he'll have a recommendation. Andy King is an excellent choice, but he's a ways up north for you. Next time I'm in the UK I'll see if I can get in touch when I'm up to Abingdon and we could get together to say hello. Cheers, Tom WIlson Zionsville IN USA TC0273 TC0279 TC2040 VA1508  BGT LE50-09 plus 11 MMMs #ygrps-yiv-1444911407 #ygrps-yiv-1444911407yiv0840869547 #ygrps-yiv-1444911407yiv0840869547 -- #ygrps-yiv-1444911407yiv0840869547ygrp-mkp {border:1px solid #d8d8d8;font-family:Arial;margin:10px 0;padding:0 10px;}#ygrps-yiv-1444911407 #ygrps-yiv-1444911407yiv0840869547 #ygrps-yiv-1444911407yiv0840869547ygrp-mkp hr {border:1px solid #d8d8d8;}#ygrps-yiv-1444911407 #ygrps-yiv-1444911407yiv0840869547 #ygrps-yiv-1444911407yiv0840869547ygrp-mkp #ygrps-yiv-1444911407yiv0840869547hd {color:#628c2a;font-size:85%;font-weight:700;line-height:122%;margin:10px 0;}#ygrps-yiv-1444911407 #ygrps-yiv-1444911407yiv0840869547 #ygrps-yiv-1444911407yiv0840869547ygrp-mkp #ygrps-yiv-1444911407yiv0840869547ads {margin-bottom:10px;}#ygrps-yiv-1444911407 #ygrps-yiv-1444911407yiv0840869547 #ygrps-yiv-1444911407yiv0840869547ygrp-mkp .ygrps-yiv-1444911407yiv0840869547ad {padding:0 0;}#ygrps-yiv-1444911407 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