Wilsons Sandbox

Well....  You've got chunks of oil pump gear and probably cam gear loose in your oil pan - not good.  The dizzy runs off that cam gear, too, so you'd better pull it and check it as well.  You should be able to pretty easily see the state of the cam gear when looking down the dizzy orifice. The cam comes out of the block from the front. So this means that you will have to remove the bonnet and radiator to access the front of the engine. The big problem with retracting it in situ is that the center cam bearings will come apart and drop into the pan while you are extracting the cam.  They are too large to fall down below the windage tray in the pan, and you DON'T ant them to get caught between the crank and any part of the block, or you will be buying yourself a new engine!  So you are going to have to drop the pan to deal with the loose bits of of gear and the center cam bearings, and the only way to insert the center cam bearings is from inside the crank case. So now you have taken apart almost all of the engine compartment except for undoing the intake and exhaust manifolds, flywheel housing and clutch fork.   Might as well just pull the engine!   When installing the new cam It is almost impossible to re-insert those bearings and line up the locating screw holes with the engine in the car. AND you don't want to insert the cam TOO far into the block or you will pop the expansion plug behind the rear bearing out of the block and into the flywheel housing.  The loose expansion plug can wreak all sorts of havoc in there if it gets caught up by the flywheel.  If you pop that expansion plug you are going to have to pull the flywheel to fit the new one, which means the engine is coming out anyway. I'm not saying someone with teeny fingers  and limitless reservoirs of patience couldn't eventually pull it off, but in the end it would be faster and safer to pull the engine do the job on your work bench.  - Mike Hughes  - -   '37 TA 0512

On Tuesday, February 12, 2019, 5:23:23 PM EST, Eugene F Gillam anngene@bellsouth.net [mg-tabc] mg-tabc-noreply@yahoogroups.com> wrote:

  How hard is it to change out a cam with the engine in the car? I was warming up my engine in the garage the other day, temperature coming up nicely, oil pressure running between 65/70 (normal this engine) when all of a sudden there were loud noises and the oil pressure dropped to 0. The engine kept running normally. I pulled the oil pump yesterday and found the oil pump gear that meshes with the cam was missing a tooth and several other teeth were damaged. I ve ordered an endoscope so I can look at the cam in the engine but I m expecting the worst. I ve built several engines from the ground up outside the car but want to avoid having to pull it if not necessary. Thanks in advance, Gene Gillam Saucier, MS Sent from my iPad #ygrps-yiv-1508090975 #ygrps-yiv-1508090975yiv2474277297 #ygrps-yiv-1508090975yiv2474277297 -- #ygrps-yiv-1508090975yiv2474277297ygrp-mkp { border:1px solid #d8d8d8;font-family:Arial;margin:10px 0;padding:0 10px;} #ygrps-yiv-1508090975 #ygrps-yiv-1508090975yiv2474277297 #ygrps-yiv-1508090975yiv2474277297ygrp-mkp hr { border:1px solid #d8d8d8;} #ygrps-yiv-1508090975 #ygrps-yiv-1508090975yiv2474277297 #ygrps-yiv-1508090975yiv2474277297ygrp-mkp #ygrps-yiv-1508090975yiv2474277297hd { color:#628c2a;font-size:85%;font-weight:700;line-height:122%;margin:10px 0;} #ygrps-yiv-1508090975 #ygrps-yiv-1508090975yiv2474277297 #ygrps-yiv-1508090975yiv2474277297ygrp-mkp #ygrps-yiv-1508090975yiv2474277297ads { margin-bottom:10px;} #ygrps-yiv-1508090975 #ygrps-yiv-1508090975yiv2474277297 #ygrps-yiv-1508090975yiv2474277297ygrp-mkp .ygrps-yiv-1508090975yiv2474277297ad { padding:0 0;} #ygrps-yiv-1508090975 #ygrps-yiv-1508090975yiv2474277297 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#ygrps-yiv-1497749025 P {margin-top:0;margin-bottom:0;} Gene, I am curious as to how many miles were on this engine since it's last rebuild and was the cam and/or oil pump gear replaced at that time? Also what would cause this type of gear failure? Too much end float on the cam, or just metal fatigue?  Unlike the dizzy where shims can be used to adjust how the gears mesh, the oil pump doesn't provide a way of adjustment. There is a paper gasket and that is it assuming that the gear and the shaft are machined to spec.  FWIW, as only an occasional engine builder I would be reluctant to attempt repairs without pulling and stripping the engine.  There appears to be a fair amount of metal floating around in your crankcase and I would want to be sure that all of it had been removed.  Frank [b]From:[/b] mg-tabc@yahoogroups.com mg-tabc@yahoogroups.com> on behalf of Eugene F Gillam anngene@bellsouth.net [mg-tabc] mg-tabc-noreply@yahoogroups.com> [b]Sent:[/b] Tuesday, February 12, 2019 5:23 PM [b]To:[/b] mg-tabc@yahoogroups.com [b]Subject:[/b] [mg-tabc] Cam Replacement [1 Attachment]     How hard is it to change out a cam with the engine in the car? I was warming up my engine in the garage the other day, temperature coming up nicely, oil pressure running between 65/70 (normal this engine) when all of a sudden there were loud noises and the oil pressure dropped to 0. The engine kept running normally. I pulled the oil pump yesterday and found the oil pump gear that meshes with the cam was missing a tooth and several other teeth were damaged. I ve ordered an endoscope so I can look at the cam in the engine but I m expecting the worst. I ve built several engines from the ground up outside the car but want to avoid having to pull it if not necessary. Thanks in advance, Gene Gillam Saucier, MS Sent from my iPad

Thanks for the input... Just so you know, the radiator has to come off and the front motor mounts have to be removed before you can jack up the engine to remove the oil pump. To answer some of the questions. The engine has less than a 1000 miles on it since being built. It has Len s roller cam, billet crank, Saenz rods and J&E pistons. It s a later TD engine with the later TD oil pump and yes, the pump was rebuilt using Moss parts. The gear is held on by a solid pin, not a roll pin. I am expecting to have to replace the cam but the reason I don t want to pull the engine is SPACE. The garage space it s in is barely longer than the car and I don t want to move it to the larger garage because I don t want to leave my wife s car outside until I finish the job...that s why I was asking about doing it with the engine in place. Best regards, Gene Gillam Sent from my iPhone

> On Feb 13, 2019, at 05:22, John Seim kingseim@earthlink.net> wrote: > > Not that hard. Requires oil pan off, as well as radiator removal. > You should be able to turn the engine with a crank or socket, and inspect the cam gear. > I suspect that the pump gear came from Moss, and was held onto the shaft with a roll pin. > Fine for the list., not so good for the oil pump, and it s load. > > John Seim > >> On Feb 12, 2019, at 2:23 PM, Eugene F Gillam anngene@bellsouth.net [mg-tabc] mg-tabc-noreply@yahoogroups.com> wrote: >> >> How hard is it to change out a cam with the engine in the car? I was warming up my engine in the garage the other day, temperature coming up nicely, oil pressure running between 65/70 (normal this engine) when all of a sudden there were loud noises and the oil pressure dropped to 0. The engine kept running normally. >> >> I pulled the oil pump yesterday and found the oil pump gear that meshes with the cam was missing a tooth and several other teeth were damaged. I ve ordered an endoscope so I can look at the cam in the engine but I m expecting the worst. >> >> I ve built several engines from the ground up outside the car but want to avoid having to pull it if not necessary. >> >> Thanks in advance, >> Gene Gillam >> Saucier, MS >> Sent from my iPad >> >> >> ------------------------------------ >> >> >> ------------------------------------ >> >> Yahoo Groups Links >> >> >> >> >