Wilsons Sandbox

These voltage regulators look really nice, and I'm sure they work. However, they use far more parts than their mechanical predecessors. What's more, according to the image on one Web site, the circuitry looks fairly complex, with the use of main circuit boards, daughter-boards, surface-mount technology (SMT), and what appear to be what connector engineers call separable interconnects. One must consider how such circuitry might hold up in a hostile environment. That includes heat, temperature extremes, shock, and vibration. What kind of solder and soldering was used? What kinds of connectors? Also, what grade semiconductors are used? There are three classifications for those: Commercial (0- 70 degrees C), industrial (-25 to +85 deg. C), and MIL (-55 to +125 deg. C). Which grade of integrated circuit and transistors are used? I have a Jeffers regulator here that failed. It is a relic in my workshop. I was always hoping to reverse engineer it, but Jeffers removed the manufacturer's designations from his integrated circuits. I suppose his family eventually passed on his intellectual property to one of these new suppliers; maybe, or maybe not. The circuitry for a regulator is fairly straightforward, deploying voltage comparators and switching semiconductors. The deployment and manufacturability may not be as straightforward. These are just a few of my thoughts about this, which I toss out for interest in our group. I have a replica mechanical dual-coil regulator in my Healey, and it's made in India. It works, but is nowhere nearly as rugged as the original; the coils and parts are smaller, etc. BTW, the original regulator worked well for 50 some-odd years. == Alex, 1946 MG-TC1321, 1960 Austin Healey 3000 BT7L/9520 On 12/17/2018 2:57 PM, TCStormer tcstormer@comcast.net [mg-tabc] wrote:

Yup it s http://www.vintagemecha-tronics.com/. I have two. Great guy to work with. Rick Storms Sent from my iPad On Dec 16, 2018, at 6:42 AM, Judy & Len ljkats-kars@cogeco.ca [mg-tabc] wrote: Gentlemen, A few years ago a man named Bob Jeffers operated Wilton electric and converted regulators to electronic units. Unfortunately, he passed away and a company took over to continue the conversions. I am looking for the contact info for the person(s) who are doing this now. Len Bonnay

[img]https://ec.yimg.com/ec?url=https%3A%2F%2Fipmcdn.avast.com%2Fimages%2Ficons%2Ficon-envelope-tick-green-avg-v1.png&t=1545606992&sig=IsEBrmD3dN.hRTAHxUiUJw--~D[/img] Virus-free. www.avg.com

Interesting perspective, Phil. Thanks for taking the time to write. == Alex On 12/18/2018 5:59 AM, phil smith wrote:

Alex - A long time ago I heard John Twist point out that when electronic improvement/replacement bits fail on the road, you need a tow, a motel, and UPS. When their mechanical predecessors fail on the road, you have to take some time to fix them. But you're back on the road. It sounds like an appealing philosophy - after all, the car was engineered around these electromechanical devices. I've tended to follow it - and over a few decades have done roadside service on distributors, fuel pumps and control boxes. Generally I've leared that these things give grief only if service isn't compulsively kept up. A diz might be one thing (and I'd venture an awful lot of MG owners don't replace diz guts prophylactically at some interval - annually for me) but how many of us open the fuel pump or control boxes to clean and check adjustment as part of our annual servicing? The only time I've strayed was for many years my GT ran a Pertronix ignition unit inside the diz. Worked great, until it didn't. While at speed on that MassPike (where nobody goes under 80), I just suddenly lost ignition. As I coasted the car to the rightmost lanes (without power on a crowded highway, that was fun) the ignition suddenly came back on. That happened a few more times on the hour ride home. My experience being that electronics don't normally intermittently fail I suspected wiring/ignition switch, but inspection proved everything else to be intact, clean, and fine. The car now uses points/condensor once again. And so far no recurrent problems. I think the cars were pretty well thought out and while the technology is now archaic, these types of electromechanical devices were probably mature technology by the time of the TC. Their real limitation is not suffering inattention, and that's really a human problem. phil On Monday, December 17, 2018, 6:37:55 PM EST, Alex alexmm@roadrunner.com [mg-tabc] mg-tabc-noreply@yahoogroups.com wrote: These voltage regulators look really nice, and I'm sure they work. However, they use far more parts than their mechanical predecessors. What's more, according to the image on one Web site, the circuitry looks fairly complex, with the use of main circuit boards, daughter-boards, surface-mount technology (SMT), and what appear to be what connector engineers call separable interconnects. One must consider how such circuitry might hold up in a hostile environment. That includes heat, temperature extremes, shock, and vibration. What kind of solder and soldering was used? What kinds of connectors? Also, what grade semiconductors are used? There are three classifications for those: Commercial (0- 70 degrees C), industrial (-25 to +85 deg. C), and MIL (-55 to +125 deg. C). Which grade of integrated circuit and transistors are used? I have a Jeffers regulator here that failed. It is a relic in my workshop. I was always hoping to reverse engineer it, but Jeffers removed the manufacturer's designations from his integrated circuits. I suppose his family eventually passed on his intellectual property to one of these new suppliers; maybe, or maybe not. The circuitry for a regulator is fairly straightforward, deploying voltage comparators and switching semiconductors. The deployment and manufacturability may not be as straightforward. These are just a few of my thoughts about this, which I toss out for interest in our group. I have a replica mechanical dual-coil regulator in my Healey, and it's made in India. It works, but is nowhere nearly as rugged as the original; the coils and parts are smaller, etc. BTW, the original regulator worked well for 50 some-odd years. == Alex, 1946 MG-TC1321, 1960 Austin Healey 3000 BT7L/9520 On 12/17/2018 2:57 PM, TCStormer tcstormer@comcast.net [mg-tabc] wrote: Yup it s http://www.vintagemecha-tronics.com/. I have two. Great guy to work with. Rick Storms Sent from my iPad On Dec 16, 2018, at 6:42 AM, Judy & Len ljkats-kars@cogeco.ca [mg-tabc] wrote: Gentlemen, A few years ago a man named Bob Jeffers operated Wilton electric and converted regulators to electronic units. Unfortunately, he passed away and a company took over to continue the conversions. I am looking for the contact info for the person(s) who are doing this now. Len Bonnay

[img]https://ec.yimg.com/ec?url=https%3A%2F%2Fipmcdn.avast.com%2Fimages%2Ficons%2Ficon-envelope-tick-green-avg-v1.png&t=1545606992&sig=IsEBrmD3dN.hRTAHxUiUJw--~D[/img] Virus-free. www.avg.com

Couldn’t agree amore!

 

Ron

 

[b]From:[/b] mg-tabc@yahoogroups.com [mailto:mg-tabc@yahoogroups.com] [b]On Behalf Of [/b]Alex alexmm@roadrunner.com [mg-tabc] [b]Sent:[/b] Tuesday, December 18, 2018 8:00 AM [b]To:[/b] phil smith; mg-tabc@yahoogroups.com [b]Subject:[/b] Re: MORE: [mg-tabc] RF95 regulator

 

 

  Interesting perspective, Phil. Thanks for taking the time to write. == Alex

On 12/18/2018 5:59 AM, phil smith wrote:

Alex - 

 

A long time ago I heard John Twist point out that when electronic improvement/replacement bits fail on the road, you need a tow, a motel, and UPS.  When their mechanical predecessors fail on the road, you have to take some time to fix them.  But you're back on the road.  It sounds like an appealing philosophy - after all, the car was engineered around these electromechanical devices.  I've tended to follow it - and over a few decades have done roadside service on distributors, fuel pumps and control boxes.  Generally I've leared that these things give grief only if service isn't compulsively kept up.  A diz might be one thing (and I'd venture an awful lot of MG owners don't replace diz guts prophylactically at some interval - annually for me) but how many of us open the fuel pump or control boxes to clean and check adjustment as part of our annual servicing?  

 

The only time I've strayed was for many years my GT ran a Pertronix ignition unit inside the diz.  Worked great, until it didn't.  While at speed on that MassPike (where nobody goes under 80), I just suddenly lost ignition.  As I coasted the car to the rightmost lanes (without power on a crowded highway, that was fun) the ignition suddenly came back on.   That happened a few more times on the hour ride home.  My experience being that electronics don't normally intermittently fail I suspected wiring/ignition switch, but inspection proved everything else to be intact, clean, and fine.  The car now uses points/condensor once again.  And so far no recurrent problems.  

 

I think the cars were pretty well thought out and while the technology is now archaic, these types of electromechanical devices were probably mature technology by the time of the TC.  Their real limitation is not suffering inattention, and that's really a human problem.  

 

phil

 

 

 

 

On Monday, December 17, 2018, 6:37:55 PM EST, Alex alexmm@roadrunner.com [mg-tabc] mg-tabc-noreply@yahoogroups.com wrote:

 

 

 

These voltage regulators look really nice, and I'm sure they work. However, they use far more parts than their mechanical predecessors. What's more, according to the image on one Web site, the circuitry looks fairly complex, with the use of main circuit boards, daughter-boards, surface-mount technology (SMT), and what appear to be what connector engineers call separable interconnects. One must consider how such circuitry might hold up in a hostile environment. That includes heat, temperature extremes, shock, and vibration. What kind of solder and soldering was used? What kinds of connectors? Also, what grade semiconductors are used? There are three classifications for those: Commercial (0- 70 degrees C), industrial (-25 to +85 deg. C), and MIL (-55 to +125 deg. C).  Which grade of integrated circuit and transistors are used? I have a Jeffers regulator here that failed. It is a relic in my workshop. I was always hoping to reverse engineer it, but Jeffers removed the manufacturer's designations from his integrated circuits. I suppose his family eventually passed on his intellectual property to one of these new suppliers; maybe, or maybe not. The circuitry for a regulator is fairly straightforward, deploying voltage comparators and switching semiconductors. The deployment and manufacturability may not be as straightforward. These are just a few of my thoughts about this, which I toss out for interest in our group. I have a replica mechanical dual-coil regulator in my Healey, and it's made in India . It works, but is nowhere nearly as rugged as the original; the coils and parts are smaller, etc. BTW, the original regulator worked well for 50 some-odd years.    == Alex, 1946 MG-TC1321, 1960 Austin Healey 3000 BT7L/9520

On 12/17/2018 2:57 PM, TCStormer tcstormer@comcast.net [mg-tabc] wrote:

 

Yup it’s http://www.vintagemecha-tronics.com/.  I have two.  Great guy to work with. Rick Storms

Sent from my iPad

On Dec 16, 2018, at 6:42 AM, Judy & Len ljkats-kars@cogeco.ca [mg-tabc] wrote:

 

Gentlemen, A few years ago a man named Bob Jeffers operated Wilton electric and converted regulators to electronic units. Unfortunately, he passed away and a company took over to continue the conversions. I am looking for the contact info for the person(s) who are doing this now. Len Bonnay

 

 

[img]https://ec.yimg.com/ec?url=https%3A%2F%2Fipmcdn.avast.com%2Fimages%2Ficons%2Ficon-envelope-tick-green-avg-v1.png&t=1545606992&sig=IsEBrmD3dN.hRTAHxUiUJw--~D[/img]

Virus-free. [color=#4453ea]www.avg.com[i][/url][/i] [/color]

 

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!important;}#ygrps-yiv-602352746 I agree wholeheartedly with everything Phil said!  The only outright ignition failure I've had was on the only car I own with electronic ignition (MGC).  But to be fair, I know several people who are happy with theirs. - Steve Simmons, TC8975

On December 18, 2018 4:59:57 AM "Alex alexmm@roadrunner.com [mg-tabc]" mg-tabc-noreply@yahoogroups.com> wrote:

  Interesting perspective, Phil. Thanks for taking the time to write. == Alex On 12/18/2018 5:59 AM, phil smith wrote: Alex -  A long time ago I heard John Twist point out that when electronic improvement/replacement bits fail on the road, you need a tow, a motel, and UPS.  When their mechanical predecessors fail on the road, you have to take some time to fix them.  But you're back on the road.  It sounds like an appealing philosophy - after all, the car was engineered around these electromechanical devices.  I've tended to follow it - and over a few decades have done roadside service on distributors, fuel pumps and control boxes.  Generally I've leared that these things give grief only if service isn't compulsively kept up.  A diz might be one thing (and I'd venture an awful lot of MG owners don't replace diz guts prophylactically at some interval - annually for me) but how many of us open the fuel pump or control boxes to clean and check adjustment as part of our annual servicing?   The only time I've strayed was for many years my GT ran a Pertronix ignition unit inside the diz.  Worked great, until it didn't.  While at speed on that MassPike (where nobody goes under 80), I just suddenly lost ignition.  As I coasted the car to the rightmost lanes (without power on a crowded highway, that was fun) the ignition suddenly came back on.   That happened a few more times on the hour ride home.  My experience being that electronics don't normally intermittently fail I suspected wiring/ignition switch, but inspection proved everything else to be intact, clean, and fine.  The car now uses points/condensor once again.  And so far no recurrent problems.   I think the cars were pretty well thought out and while the technology is now archaic, these types of electromechanical devices were probably mature technology by the time of the TC.  Their real limitation is not suffering inattention, and that's really a human problem.   phil On Monday, December 17, 2018, 6:37:55 PM EST, Alex alexmm@roadrunner.com [mg-tabc] mg-tabc-noreply@yahoogroups.com wrote:   These voltage regulators look really nice, and I'm sure they work. However, they use far more parts than their mechanical predecessors. What's more, according to the image on one Web site, the circuitry looks fairly complex, with the use of main circuit boards, daughter-boards, surface-mount technology (SMT), and what appear to be what connector engineers call separable interconnects. One must consider how such circuitry might hold up in a hostile environment. That includes heat, temperature extremes, shock, and vibration. What kind of solder and soldering was used? What kinds of connectors? Also, what grade semiconductors are used? There are three classifications for those: Commercial (0- 70 degrees C), industrial (-25 to +85 deg. C), and MIL (-55 to +125 deg. C).  Which grade of integrated circuit and transistors are used? I have a Jeffers regulator here that failed. It is a relic in my workshop. I was always hoping to reverse engineer it, but Jeffers removed the manufacturer's designations from his integrated circuits. I suppose his family eventually passed on his intellectual property to one of these new suppliers; maybe, or maybe not. The circuitry for a regulator is fairly straightforward, deploying voltage comparators and switching semiconductors. The deployment and manufacturability may not be as straightforward. These are just a few of my thoughts about this, which I toss out for interest in our group. I have a replica mechanical dual-coil regulator in my Healey, and it's made in India. It works, but is nowhere nearly as rugged as the original; the coils and parts are smaller, etc. BTW, the original regulator worked well for 50 some-odd years.    == Alex, 1946 MG-TC1321, 1960 Austin Healey 3000 BT7L/9520 On 12/17/2018 2:57 PM, TCStormer tcstormer@comcast.net [mg-tabc] wrote:   Yup it s http://www.vintagemecha-tronics.com/.  I have two.  Great guy to work with. Rick Storms Sent from my iPad On Dec 16, 2018, at 6:42 AM, Judy & Len ljkats-kars@cogeco.ca [mg-tabc] wrote:   Gentlemen, A few years ago a man named Bob Jeffers operated Wilton electric and converted regulators to electronic units. Unfortunately, he passed away and a company took over to continue the conversions. I am looking for the contact info for the person(s) who are doing this now. Len Bonnay

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I have had the opposite in that the only time I had a failure in a car with electronic ignition fitted (also MGC) the problem was not the electronics but the rotor arm, cured by fitting a red type rotor arm (though I did always carry the points etc as a back up), however I have had a few non electronic ignition cars fail generally due to the condenser.With cars the age of ours, when they break down we should usually be able to get them going at least long enough to get us where we are going (and without the need for a computer), however from experience I have found there are many classic car owners who would not know what to look for if their car breaks down!RegardsMikeTB0457 [b]TB80 the 80th anniversary Event for MG TB Owners 1939-2019[/b]

On Tuesday, 18 December 2018, 17:35:13 CET, Steve S mail@mgnuts.com [mg-tabc] mg-tabc-noreply@yahoogroups.com> wrote:

  I agree wholeheartedly with everything Phil said!  The only outright ignition failure I've had was on the only car I own with electronic ignition (MGC).  But to be fair, I know several people who are happy with theirs. - Steve Simmons, TC8975 On December 18, 2018 4:59:57 AM "Alex alexmm@roadrunner.com [mg-tabc]" mg-tabc-noreply@yahoogroups.com> wrote:

  Interesting perspective, Phil.. Thanks for taking the time to write. == Alex On 12/18/2018 5:59 AM, phil smith wrote: Alex -  A long time ago I heard John Twist point out that when electronic improvement/replacement bits fail on the road, you need a tow, a motel, and UPS.  When their mechanical predecessors fail on the road, you have to take some time to fix them.  But you're back on the road.  It sounds like an appealing philosophy - after all, the car was engineered around these electromechanical devices.  I've tended to follow it - and over a few decades have done roadside service on distributors, fuel pumps and control boxes.  Generally I've leared that these things give grief only if service isn't compulsively kept up.  A diz might be one thing (and I'd venture an awful lot of MG owners don't replace diz guts prophylactically at some interval - annually for me) but how many of us open the fuel pump or control boxes to clean and check adjustment as part of our annual servicing?   The only time I've strayed was for many years my GT ran a Pertronix ignition unit inside the diz.  Worked great, until it didn't.  While at speed on that MassPike (where nobody goes under 80), I just suddenly lost ignition.  As I coasted the car to the rightmost lanes (without power on a crowded highway, that was fun) the ignition suddenly came back on.   That happened a few more times on the hour ride home.  My experience being that electronics don't normally intermittently fail I suspected wiring/ignition switch, but inspection proved everything else to be intact, clean, and fine.  The car now uses points/condensor once again.  And so far no recurrent problems.   I think the cars were pretty well thought out and while the technology is now archaic, these types of electromechanical devices were probably mature technology by the time of the TC.  Their real limitation is not suffering inattention, and that's really a human problem.   phil On Monday, December 17, 2018, 6:37:55 PM EST, Alex alexmm@roadrunner.com [mg-tabc] mg-tabc-noreply@yahoogroups.com wrote:   These voltage regulators look really nice, and I'm sure they work. However, they use far more parts than their mechanical predecessors. What's more, according to the image on one Web site, the circuitry looks fairly complex, with the use of main circuit boards, daughter-boards, surface-mount technology (SMT), and what appear to be what connector engineers call separable interconnects. One must consider how such circuitry might hold up in a hostile environment. That includes heat, temperature extremes, shock, and vibration. What kind of solder and soldering was used? What kinds of connectors? Also, what grade semiconductors are used? There are three classifications for those: Commercial (0- 70 degrees C), industrial (-25 to +85 deg. C), and MIL (-55 to +125 deg. C).  Which grade of integrated circuit and transistors are used? I have a Jeffers regulator here that failed. It is a relic in my workshop. I was always hoping to reverse engineer it, but Jeffers removed the manufacturer's designations from his integrated circuits. I suppose his family eventually passed on his intellectual property to one of these new suppliers; maybe, or maybe not. The circuitry for a regulator is fairly straightforward, deploying voltage comparators and switching semiconductors. The deployment and manufacturability may not be as straightforward. These are just a few of my thoughts about this, which I toss out for interest in our group. I have a replica mechanical dual-coil regulator in my Healey, and it's made in India. It works, but is nowhere nearly as rugged as the original; the coils and parts are smaller, etc. BTW, the original regulator worked well for 50 some-odd years.    == Alex, 1946 MG-TC1321, 1960 Austin Healey 3000 BT7L/9520 On 12/17/2018 2:57 PM, TCStormer tcstormer@comcast.net [mg-tabc] wrote:   Yup it s http://www.vintagemecha-tronics.com/.  I have two.  Great guy to work with. Rick Storms Sent from my iPad On Dec 16, 2018, at 6:42 AM, Judy & Len ljkats-kars@cogeco.ca [mg-tabc] wrote:   Gentlemen, A few years ago a man named Bob Jeffers operated Wilton electric and converted regulators to electronic units. Unfortunately, he passed away and a company took over to continue the conversions. I am looking for the contact info for the person(s) who are doing this now. Len Bonnay [img]https://ec.yimg.com/ec?url=https%3A%2F%2Fipmcdn.avast.com%2Fimages%2Ficons%2Ficon-envelope-tick-green-avg-v1..png&t=1545606993&sig=KjTxbHpF0ZKW779beo2wzg--~D[/img]Virus-free. www.avg.com

Within the last couple of years, Pertronix units have been failing at the vintage tracks.Perhaps some changes were made that work against their bulletproof rep. (design or poorer quality from suppliers) Neither helps when your car goes dead at an expensive race weekend. It appears that there may be now some incompatibility among their own units, so spares can be a challenge. Dick Little TA1326

On Tue, Dec 18, 2018 at 7:59 AM Alex alexmm@roadrunner.com [mg-tabc] mg-tabc-noreply@yahoogroups.com> wrote: [u][/u] Interesting perspective, Phil. Thanks for taking the time to write. == Alex On 12/18/2018 5:59 AM, phil smith wrote: Alex - A long time ago I heard John Twist point out that when electronic improvement/replacement bits fail on the road, you need a tow, a motel, and UPS. When their mechanical predecessors fail on the road, you have to take some time to fix them. But you're back on the road. It sounds like an appealing philosophy - after all, the car was engineered around these electromechanical devices. I've tended to follow it - and over a few decades have done roadside service on distributors, fuel pumps and control boxes. Generally I've leared that these things give grief only if service isn't compulsively kept up. A diz might be one thing (and I'd venture an awful lot of MG owners don't replace diz guts prophylactically at some interval - annually for me) but how many of us open the fuel pump or control boxes to clean and check adjustment as part of our annual servicing? The only time I've strayed was for many years my GT ran a Pertronix ignition unit inside the diz. Worked great, until it didn't. While at speed on that MassPike (where nobody goes under 80), I just suddenly lost ignition. As I coasted the car to the rightmost lanes (without power on a crowded highway, that was fun) the ignition suddenly came back on. That happened a few more times on the hour ride home. My experience being that electronics don't normally intermittently fail I suspected wiring/ignition switch, but inspection proved everything else to be intact, clean, and fine. The car now uses points/condensor once again. And so far no recurrent problems. I think the cars were pretty well thought out and while the technology is now archaic, these types of electromechanical devices were probably mature technology by the time of the TC. Their real limitation is not suffering inattention, and that's really a human problem. phil On Monday, December 17, 2018, 6:37:55 PM EST, Alex alexmm@roadrunner.com [mg-tabc] mg-tabc-noreply@yahoogroups.com wrote: These voltage regulators look really nice, and I'm sure they work. However, they use far more parts than their mechanical predecessors. What's more, according to the image on one Web site, the circuitry looks fairly complex, with the use of main circuit boards, daughter-boards, surface-mount technology (SMT), and what appear to be what connector engineers call separable interconnects. One must consider how such circuitry might hold up in a hostile environment. That includes heat, temperature extremes, shock, and vibration. What kind of solder and soldering was used? What kinds of connectors? Also, what grade semiconductors are used? There are three classifications for those: Commercial (0- 70 degrees C), industrial (-25 to +85 deg. C), and MIL (-55 to +125 deg. C). Which grade of integrated circuit and transistors are used? I have a Jeffers regulator here that failed. It is a relic in my workshop. I was always hoping to reverse engineer it, but Jeffers removed the manufacturer's designations from his integrated circuits. I suppose his family eventually passed on his intellectual property to one of these new suppliers; maybe, or maybe not. The circuitry for a regulator is fairly straightforward, deploying voltage comparators and switching semiconductors. The deployment and manufacturability may not be as straightforward. These are just a few of my thoughts about this, which I toss out for interest in our group. I have a replica mechanical dual-coil regulator in my Healey, and it's made in India. It works, but is nowhere nearly as rugged as the original; the coils and parts are smaller, etc. BTW, the original regulator worked well for 50 some-odd years. == Alex, 1946 MG-TC1321, 1960 Austin Healey 3000 BT7L/9520 On 12/17/2018 2:57 PM, TCStormer tcstormer@comcast.net [mg-tabc] wrote: Yup it s http://www.vintagemecha-tronics.com/. I have two. Great guy to work with. Rick Storms Sent from my iPad On Dec 16, 2018, at 6:42 AM, Judy & Len ljkats-kars@cogeco.ca [mg-tabc] wrote: Gentlemen, A few years ago a man named Bob Jeffers operated Wilton electric and converted regulators to electronic units. Unfortunately, he passed away and a company took over to continue the conversions. I am looking for the contact info for the person(s) who are doing this now. Len Bonnay

[img]https://ec.yimg.com/ec?url=https%3A%2F%2Fipmcdn.avast.com%2Fimages%2Ficons%2Ficon-envelope-tick-green-avg-v1.png&t=1545606998&sig=S.iL1t5wW5esDW2tnHsYaw--~D[/img] Virus-free. www.avg.com