Front Lipseal Crankshaft sprocket/oil pan/front timing cover

[M. P.]

Hello all: I am getting ready to put the front end rebuild on TC 5141 engine. The crankshaft and Camshaft sprockets are original and well worn so am replacing those with the Moss offering from their supplier (County) in England. The issue I have is that the modern lip seal Moss sells for the XPAG (120-750) which is made my SKF (p/n14005) is for a 36mm x 47mm x 7mm application. The flange diameter on the original TC XPAG Crankshaft gear and the Moss aftermarket (433-440) is 1.496"/1.500" or 38mm. While you can force the sprocket into the 36mm seal and assemble the engine that way. Logic says the seal will soon self destruct due to the extreme compression being exerted and the heat generated as well on it. (Free lip diameter is 1.357") In reading through some TD/TF blogs I'm wondering if the XPAG crankshaft sprocket changed to a 35mm or 36mm diameter on the later engines because some of those boys were talking about having to machine sprocket hubs down and using Volvo double lip 35mm x 47mm x 7mm seals instead of the Moss seal. My research has yielded a couple of seals that will work for the 38mm diameter sprocket shaft. One is SKF #14695 double lip Nitrile seal or the Federal Mogul #223805 double lip Nitrile seal. Both are 38mm x 47mm x 7mm. Both are readily available from the usual sources. In reading through this thread and a few others, I'm wondering if some other TC owners have experienced early leakage after an overhaul by using the apparently undersized Moss seal #120-750? Unless someone gives me really good reason to do otherwise, I'm going to use the 38mm seal Moss has a pdf document that pops up with the seal selection in their catalog but they say nothing about size. Comments are solicited..  Thank you in advance Marv TC5141

[John Seim]

The seal fits in the groove of the timing cover, and the oil pan. It seals against the crankshaft pulley flange.A little filing is required in the timing cover, for the seal to fit there, and not be compressed on the sides.If you have a cast iron crank pulley, the lip seal will wear a groove into the cast iron. Solution: install a Speedi-Sleeve.Once the seal barely fits in the timing cover, the only other thing to do, is to cut notches in the pan gasket, for the seal.Install with silicone sealant. I use Loctite Ultra-Grey, as I already have it on hand, for use on the water pump gasket. No need to worry about crankshaft sprocket, as it is not part of the seal. John SeimIrvine, CA

On Oct 11, 2017, at 12:56 PM, 'M. P.' imabystander@yahoo.com [mg-tabc] wrote: Hello all: I am getting ready to put the front end rebuild on TC 5141 engine. The crankshaft and Camshaft sprockets are original and well worn so am replacing those with the Moss offering from their supplier (County) in England. The issue I have is that the modern lip seal Moss sells for the XPAG (120-750) which is made by SKF (p/n14005) is for a 36mm x 47mm x 7mm application. The flange diameter on the original TC XPAG Crankshaft gear and the Moss aftermarket (433-440) is 1.496"/1.500" or 38mm. While you can force the sprocket into the 36mm seal and assemble the engine that way. Logic says the seal will soon self destruct due to the extreme compression being exerted and the heat generated as well on it. (Free lip diameter is 1.357") In reading through some TD/TF blogs I'm wondering if the XPAG crankshaft sprocket changed to a 35mm or 36mm diameter on the later engines because some of those boys were talking about having to machine sprocket hubs down and using Volvo double lip 35mm x 47mm x 7mm seals instead of the Moss seal.  My research has yielded a couple of seals that will work for the 38mm diameter sprocket shaft. One is SKF #14695 double lip Nitrile seal or the Federal Mogul #223805 double lip Nitrile seal. Both are 38mm x 47mm x 7mm. Both are readily available from the usual sources.  In reading through this thread and a few others, I'm wondering if some other TC owners have experienced early leakage after an overhaul by using the apparently undersized Moss seal #120-750? Unless someone gives me really good reason to do otherwise, I'm going to use the 38mm seal Moss has a pdf document that pops up with the seal selection in their catalog but they say nothing about size.  Comments are solicited..  Thank you in advance Marv TC5141

[laf48@aol.com]

A 1988 Volvo cam seal fits the cover & sump better, as it is slightly narrower.Len Fanelli  Sent from AOL Mobile Mail -----Original Message----- From: John Seim kingseim@earthlink.net [mg-tabc] mg-tabc-noreply@yahoogroups.com> To: M. P. imabystander@yahoo.com> Cc: TABC-Group mg-tabc@yahoogroups.com> Sent: Thu, Oct 12, 2017 07:53 AM Subject: Re: [mg-tabc] Front Lipseal Crankshaft sprocket/oil pan/front timing cover #ygrps-yiv-584601017 #ygrps-yiv-584601017AOLMsgPart_2_9b8ce2c0-26bc-42fc-873a-5ad654a9b14d td{color:black;}#ygrps-yiv-584601017 .ygrps-yiv-584601017aolReplacedBody .ygrps-yiv-584601017aolmail_ygrp-photo-title{clear:both;font-size:smaller;height:15px;overflow:hidden;text-align:center;width:75px;}#ygrps-yiv-584601017 .ygrps-yiv-584601017aolReplacedBody div.ygrps-yiv-584601017aolmail_ygrp-photo{background-position:center;background-repeat:no-repeat;background-color:white;border:1px solid black;height:62px;width:62px;}#ygrps-yiv-584601017 .ygrps-yiv-584601017aolReplacedBody div.ygrps-yiv-584601017aolmail_photo-title a, #ygrps-yiv-584601017 .ygrps-yiv-584601017aolReplacedBody div.ygrps-yiv-584601017aolmail_photo-title a:active, #ygrps-yiv-584601017 .ygrps-yiv-584601017aolReplacedBody div.ygrps-yiv-584601017aolmail_photo-title a:hover, #ygrps-yiv-584601017 .ygrps-yiv-584601017aolReplacedBody div.ygrps-yiv-584601017aolmail_photo-title a:visited {text-decoration:none;}#ygrps-yiv-584601017 .ygrps-yiv-584601017aolReplacedBody div.ygrps-yiv-584601017aolmail_attach-table div.ygrps-yiv-584601017aolmail_attach-row {clear:both;}#ygrps-yiv-584601017 .ygrps-yiv-584601017aolReplacedBody div.ygrps-yiv-584601017aolmail_attach-table div.ygrps-yiv-584601017aolmail_attach-row div {float:left;}#ygrps-yiv-584601017 .ygrps-yiv-584601017aolReplacedBody p {clear:both;padding:15px 0 3px 0;overflow:hidden;}#ygrps-yiv-584601017 .ygrps-yiv-584601017aolReplacedBody div.ygrps-yiv-584601017aolmail_ygrp-file {width:30px;}#ygrps-yiv-584601017 .ygrps-yiv-584601017aolReplacedBody div.ygrps-yiv-584601017aolmail_attach-table div.ygrps-yiv-584601017aolmail_attach-row div div a {text-decoration:none;}#ygrps-yiv-584601017 .ygrps-yiv-584601017aolReplacedBody div.ygrps-yiv-584601017aolmail_attach-table div.ygrps-yiv-584601017aolmail_attach-row div div span {font-weight:normal;}#ygrps-yiv-584601017 .ygrps-yiv-584601017aolReplacedBody div.ygrps-yiv-584601017aolmail_ygrp-file-title {font-weight:bold;} The seal fits in the groove of the timing cover, and the oil pan. It seals against the crankshaft pulley flange.A little filing is required in the timing cover, for the seal to fit there, and not be compressed on the sides.If you have a cast iron crank pulley, the lip seal will wear a groove into the cast iron. Solution: install a Speedi-Sleeve.Once the seal barely fits in the timing cover, the only other thing to do, is to cut notches in the pan gasket, for the seal.Install with silicone sealant. I use Loctite Ultra-Grey, as I already have it on hand, for use on the water pump gasket. No need to worry about crankshaft sprocket, as it is not part of the seal. John SeimIrvine, CA

On Oct 11, 2017, at 12:56 PM, 'M. P.' imabystander@yahoo.com [mg-tabc] wrote: [quote] Hello all: I am getting ready to put the front end rebuild on TC 5141 engine. The crankshaft and Camshaft sprockets are original and well worn so am replacing those with the Moss offering from their supplier (County) in England. The i ssue I have is that the modern lip seal Moss sells for the XPAG (120-750) which is made by SKF (p/n14005) is for a 36mm x 47mm x 7mm application. The flange diameter on the original TC XPAG Crankshaft gear and the Moss aftermarket (433-440) is 1.496"/1.500" or 38mm. While you can force the sprocket into the 36mm seal and assemble the engine that way. Logic says the seal will soon self destruct due to the extreme compression being exerted and the heat generated as well on it. (Free lip diameter is 1.357") In reading through some TD/TF blogs I'm wondering if the XPAG crankshaft sprocket changed to a 35mm or 36mm diameter on the later engines because some of those boys were talking about having to machine sprocket hubs down and using Volvo double lip 35mm x 47mm x 7mm seals instead of the Moss seal.  My research has yielded a couple of seals that will work for the 38mm diameter sprocket shaft. One is SKF #14695 double lip Nitrile seal or the Federal Mogul #223805 double lip Nitrile seal. Both are 38mm x 47mm x 7mm. Both are readily available from the usual sources.  In reading through this thread and a few others, I'm wondering if some other TC owners have experienced early leakage after an overhaul by using the apparently undersized Moss seal #120-750? Unless someone gives me really good reason to do otherwise, I'm going to use the 38mm seal Moss has a pdf document that pops up with the seal selection in their catalog but they say nothing about size.  Comments are solicited..  Thank you in advance Marv TC5141

[/quote]

[M. P.]

I've already stated it was a brain fart.  just had the bits laid out on the bench w/o the pulley and my mind ran a totally different direction .  please disregard the post.   Marv On Thursday, October 12, 2017 6:53 AM, John Seim kingseim@earthlink.net> wrote: The seal fits in the groove of the timing cover, and the oil pan. It seals against the crankshaft pulley flange.A little filing is required in the timing cover, for the seal to fit there, and not be compressed on the sides.If you have a cast iron crank pulley, the lip seal will wear a groove into the cast iron. Solution: install a Speedi-Sleeve.Once the seal barely fits in the timing cover, the only other thing to do, is to cut notches in the pan gasket, for the seal.Install with silicone sealant. I use Loctite Ultra-Grey, as I already have it on hand, for use on the water pump gasket. No need to worry about crankshaft sprocket, as it is not part of the seal. John SeimIrvine, CA On Oct 11, 2017, at 12:56 PM, 'M. P.' imabystander@yahoo.com [mg-tabc] wrote:

Hello all: I am getting ready to put the front end rebuild on TC 5141 engine. The crankshaft and Camshaft sprockets are original and well worn so am replacing those with the Moss offering from their supplier (County) in England. The issue I have is that the modern lip seal Moss sells for the XPAG (120-750) which is made by SKF (p/n14005) is for a 36mm x 47mm x 7mm application. The flange diameter on the original TC XPAG Crankshaft gear and the Moss aftermarket (433-440) is 1.496"/1.500" or 38mm. While you can force the sprocket into the 36mm seal and assemble the engine that way. Logic says the seal will soon self destruct due to the extreme compression being exerted and the heat generated as well on it. (Free lip diameter is 1.357") In reading through some TD/TF blogs I'm wondering if the XPAG crankshaft sprocket changed to a 35mm or 36mm diameter on the later engines because some of those boys were talking about having to machine sprocket hubs down and using Volvo double lip 35mm x 47mm x 7mm seals instead of the Moss seal.  My research has yielded a couple of seals that will work for the 38mm diameter sprocket shaft. One is SKF #14695 double lip Nitrile seal or the Federal Mogul #223805 double lip Nitrile seal. Both are 38mm x 47mm x 7mm. Both are readily available from the usual sources.  In reading through this thread and a few others, I'm wondering if some other TC owners have experienced early leakage after an overhaul by using the apparently undersized Moss seal #120-750? Unless someone gives me really good reason to do otherwise, I'm going to use the 38mm seal Moss has a pdf document that pops up with the seal selection in their catalog but they say nothing about size.  Comments are solicited..  Thank you in advance Marv TC5141