Toe-in and front tyre wear.

[eworpe]

Hi Stephen, The Blower manual recommends 1/2" whilst other sources give 1/4" as the toe-in value. The TC's centre laced wheels displace the tyre's "foot print" so that it lies outside of the point where the king-pin axis would meet the ground. This results in an increased force trying to swing the wheels backwards around the the king-pin axis when the car is rolling forwards. I suspect the toe-in is intended to partly compensate for the displacement of the front suspension "set-up" due to the forces compressing the springs in the track-rod ends for example. I assume the wheels are intended to run parallel when rolling, which is why the final arbiter of the correct toe-in would be the wear pattern on the tyres, any "feathering" would give a clue that one's toe-in was incorrect. Had the original e-mail about excessive tyre wear given an indication of the wear pattern on the front tyres, we might have been able to work out what was happening. Regards, Eric. ________________________________________ From: Stephen D Stierman morgan7709@sbcglobal.net According to my Bentley manual toe-in should be set at 1/2". Do the conversion to mm. and you should be correct. I have set my TC to this spec and it drives very well.

[Stephen D Stierman]

My first set of Excelsiors lasted about 14,500 miles and seemed to have worn more heavily in the middle.  Inflation pressure was mostly around 30 lbs., I found that at lower pressures, say 25, things felt pretty squishy and squirrely.  I started toe in at 1/4", experimented with 3/8' and finally went to 1/2" after looking in the Bentley manual.  This 1/2" gave a marked improvement in straight line stability, ease of steering and lessoning of lost motion on center.  I am watching tire wear on the new set of Excelsiors that I mounted about 1000 miles ago.  I will note that I rotate these tires every couple of thousand miles and frankly have noticed that the fronts, perhaps because of the positive camber seem to wear rather oddly from one side to the other anyway.  Given the huge improvement in steering stability, I am in no hurry to reduce the amount of toe in that I have currently set.Steve TC2911 [b]From:[/b] "E.Worpe@surrey.ac.uk [mg-tabc]" mg-tabc-noreply@yahoogroups.com> [b]To:[/b] morgan7709@sbcglobal.net; jeanvignau@orange.fr; mg-tabc@yahoogroups.com [b]Sent:[/b] Wednesday, September 20, 2017 10:29 AM [b]Subject:[/b] [mg-tabc] Toe-in and front tyre wear.   Hi Stephen, The Blower manual recommends 1/2" whilst other sources give 1/4" as the toe-in value. The TC's centre laced wheels displace the tyre's "foot print" so that it lies outside of the point where the king-pin axis would meet the ground. This results in an increased force trying to swing the wheels backwards around the the king-pin axis when the car is rolling forwards. I suspect the toe-in is intended to partly compensate for the displacement of the front suspension "set-up" due to the forces compressing the springs in the track-rod ends for example. I assume the wheels are intended to run parallel when rolling, which is why the final arbiter of the correct toe-in would be the wear pattern on the tyres, any "feathering" would give a clue that one's toe-in was incorrect. Had the original e-mail about excessive tyre wear given an indication of the wear pattern on the front tyres, we might have been able to work out what was happening. Regards, Eric. ________________________________________ From: Stephen D Stierman morgan7709@sbcglobal.net According to my Bentley manual toe-in should be set at 1/2". Do the conversion to mm. and you should be correct. 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[Clive P Sherriff]

Steve,   Just an important point to my mind, the "Bentley" book you refere to is correctly known as Blower's Workshop Manual.   Roche Bentley ran the MG Owners club, and republished Blower's fine work under his own name, and with no reference to and no credit given to W E Blower at all. that I could ever see.   Bentley set up the MGOC and it was always a commercial organisation rather than a "Club" and this book plagarism always seemed to me to be most uncharitable to the fine work that WE Blower produced,   Clive   m mmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmm    

----- Original Message ----- [b]From:[/b] morgan7709@sbcglobal.net [mg-tabc] [b]To:[/b] E.Worpe@surrey.ac.uk ; jeanvignau@orange.fr ; mg-tabc@yahoogroups.com [b]Sent:[/b] Wednesday, September 20, 2017 9:56 PM [b]Subject:[/b] Re: [mg-tabc] Toe-in and front tyre wear.   My first set of Excelsiors lasted about 14,500 miles and seemed to have worn more heavily in the middle.  Inflation pressure was mostly around 30 lbs., I found that at lower pressures, say 25, things felt pretty squishy and squirrely.  I started toe in at 1/4", experimented with 3/8' and finally went to 1/2" after looking in the Bentley manual.  This 1/2" gave a marked improvement in straight line stability, ease of steering and lessoning of lost motion on center.  I am watching tire wear on the new set of Excelsiors that I mounted about 1000 miles ago.  I will note that I rotate these tires every couple of thousand miles and frankly have noticed that the fronts, perhaps because of the positive camber seem to wear rather oddly from one side to the other anyway.  Given the huge improvement in steering stability, I am in no hurry to reduce the amount of toe in that I have currently set. Steve TC2911 [b]From:[/b] "E.Worpe@surrey.ac.uk [mg-tabc]" mg-tabc-noreply@yahoogroups.com> [b]To:[/b] morgan7709@sbcglobal.net; jeanvignau@orange.fr; mg-tabc@yahoogroups.com [b]Sent:[/b] Wednesday, September 20, 2017 10:29 AM [b]Subject:[/b] [mg-tabc] Toe-in and front tyre wear.   Hi Stephen, The Blower manual recommends 1/2" whilst other sources give 1/4" as the toe-in value. The TC's centre laced wheels displace the tyre's "foot print" so that it lies outside of the point where the king-pin axis would meet the ground. This results in an increased force trying to swing the wheels backwards around the the king-pin axis when the car is rolling forwards. I suspect the toe-in is intended to partly compensate for the displacement of the front suspension "set-up" due to the forces compressing the springs in the track-rod ends for example. I assume the wheels are intended to run parallel when rolling, which is why the final arbiter of the correct toe-in would be the wear pattern on the tyres, any "feathering" would give a clue that one's toe-in was incorrect. Had the original e-mail about excessive tyre wear given an indication of the wear pattern on the front tyres, we might have been able to work out what was happening. Regards, Eric. ________________________________________ From: Stephen D Stierman morgan7709@sbcglobal.net According to my Bentley manual toe-in should be set at 1/2". Do the conversion to mm. and you should be correct. I have set my TC to this spec and it drives very well.

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