Wilsons Sandbox

Posted: **Thu Jul 04, 2002 3:50 am**

Hello friends, Can someone from USA help Robert? He sent the question to me, because I'm running my own MG TC web site. But I don't have an actual overview over the price situation in the USA. Please copy Robert on your reply, because he is not (yet) a member of our list. Thanks for your help Peter Forstner - TC6325 -----Original Message----- From: Robert Olsen [mailto:ATVMAN3@msn.com] Sent: Thursday, 04 July, 2002 04:56 To: peter@mg-tc.de Subject: help price I need help with the price of a tc I am looking at. I am in new York I found the car in a old house it was fully restored 25 years ago but is in need of some work. it has been stored for the last 10 years and has not been started in the last 5 years. the mice got to it and the chrome is pitted and rusty. other then that it is just the normal ware from sitting so long. I would really appreciate your input on my situation. thanks atvman3@msn.com atvman3@msn.com> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Posted: **Thu Jul 04, 2002 9:44 am**

Robert, Sounds like it probably needs another restoration; paint, interior, mechanicals, chrome, wiring, etc. Without seeing it, I would bet it's probably worth $8-12k. Does it have the original engine? ETC... Many old cars have no real base value unrestored. MGTD's are a good example, the cost to properly restore a TD is about equal to their market value. How much are correctly restored TC's actually selling for. Not asking prices, but real sale figures. Drivers versus show cars? It's highly unlikely you could buy a TC cheap enough to make much money on it. But if you want a driving TC, pay $10-12k, and plan on putting another $15k into it. Or, just buy a nice one for $20k and spend the summer driving it. I prefer the "project" aspect, and never expect to turn a profit. Enjoy it. Ed TC 0275 TD 11951

> Hello friends, > Can someone from USA help Robert? > Thanks for your help > Peter Forstner - TC6325 > > -----Original Message----- > From: Robert Olsen [mailto:ATVMAN3@msn.com] > Sent: Thursday, 04 July, 2002 04:56 > To: peter@mg-tc.de > Subject: help price > > > I need help with the price of a tc I am looking at. I am in new York I

found

> the car in a old house it was fully restored 25 years ago but is in need

of

> some work. it has been stored for the last 10 years and has not been

started

> in the last 5 years. the mice got to it and the chrome is pitted and

rusty.

> other then that it is just the normal ware from sitting so long. I would > really appreciate your input on my situation. >

Posted: **Fri Jul 05, 2002 1:04 am**

It strikes me that our cars are worth considerably less in the US than where they came from. A TC would have to be a real basket case to go for only $8 - $12 (adjusted for exchange rate) over here. This can be seen in the steady stream of British cars which are regularly reimported for restoration. Far from having no base value an unrestored car can in fact command a premium over here, especially if it has that genuine old car patina. I would agree though that you cannot make money on a restoration. This is even more true over here as I would consider that a worthwhile restoration costs considerably more than market value, perhaps double. Of course I am talking about getting it done by someone other than yourself, where you have to take labour costs into account. Including notional labour costs in your own restoration can put up the price even more (depending on how much you value your time at)as we amatuers take longer. But then again we only do it for the satisfaction of saying "I did that"; don't we? Ian Thomson -----------

> Robert, >Sounds like it probably needs another restoration; paint, interior, >mechanicals, chrome, wiring, etc. Without seeing it, I would bet it's >probably worth $8-12k. Does it have the original engine? ETC... Many old >cars have no real base value unrestored. MGTD's are a good example, the cost >to properly restore a TD is about equal to their market value. How much are >correctly restored TC's actually selling for. Not asking prices, but real >sale figures. Drivers versus show cars? It's highly unlikely you could buy a >TC cheap enough to make much money on it. But if you want a driving TC, pay >$10-12k, and plan on putting another $15k into it. Or, just buy a nice one >for $20k and spend the summer driving it. >I prefer the "project" aspect, and never expect to turn a profit. Enjoy it. > >Ed >TC 0275 >TD 11951 > > Hello friends, > Can someone from USA help Robert? > Thanks for your help > Peter Forstner - TC6325

-------------------- talk21 your FREE portable and private address on the net at http://www.talk21.com

Posted: **Fri Jul 05, 2002 7:27 am**

Ian, Very true; but I have always wondered why that should be, as US restorations are, in my experience, far superior to those done in the UK. Is that another example of the British public being robbed blind at every turn? Yours etc., David Lodge.

> > It strikes me that our cars are worth considerably less in the US than where > they came from. A TC would have to be a real basket case to go for only $8 - > $12 (adjusted for exchange rate) over here. This can be seen in the steady > stream of British cars which are regularly reimported for restoration. Far > from having no base value an unrestored car can in fact command a premium over > here, especially if it has that genuine old car patina. I would agree though > that you cannot make money on a restoration. This is even more true over here > as I would consider that a worthwhile restoration costs considerably more than > market value, perhaps double. Of course I am talking about getting it done by > someone other than yourself, where you have to take labour costs into account. > Including notional labour costs in your own restoration can put up the price > even more (depending on how much you value your time at)as we amatuers take > longer. But then again we only do it for the satisfaction of saying "I did > that"; do! > n't we? > > Ian Thomson > > ----------- > > >> Robert, >> Sounds like it probably needs another restoration; paint, interior, >> mechanicals, chrome, wiring, etc. Without seeing it, I would bet it's >> probably worth $8-12k. Does it have the original engine? ETC... Many old >> cars have no real base value unrestored. MGTD's are a good example, the cost >> to properly restore a TD is about equal to their market value. How much are >> correctly restored TC's actually selling for. Not asking prices, but real >> sale figures. Drivers versus show cars? It's highly unlikely you could buy a >> TC cheap enough to make much money on it. But if you want a driving TC, pay >> $10-12k, and plan on putting another $15k into it. Or, just buy a nice one >> for $20k and spend the summer driving it. >> I prefer the "project" aspect, and never expect to turn a profit. Enjoy it. >> >> Ed >> TC 0275 >> TD 11951 >> >> Hello friends, >> Can someone from USA help Robert? > Thanks for your help >> Peter Forstner - TC6325 > > > > > -------------------- > talk21 your FREE portable and private address on the net at > http://www.talk21.com > > > > > > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ > >

Posted: **Fri Jul 05, 2002 7:37 am**

David, I can't comment on the comparisons between US and UK restorations but can agree on us here being robbed blind, especially in comparison to the US. Just look at petrol/gas prices. I'm sure that the answer lies in the minefield of ideologies surrounding the concept of global free markets. Ian T. --

> Ian, >Very true; but I have always wondered why that should be, as US restorations >are, in my experience, far superior to those done in the UK. Is that another >example of the British public being robbed blind at every turn? >Yours etc., David Lodge. > > > > > It strikes me that our cars are worth considerably less in the US than where > they came from.

-------------------- talk21 your FREE portable and private address on the net at http://www.talk21.com

Posted: **Fri Jul 05, 2002 8:58 am**

You guys should think how we feel in South Africa, 10 rand to the dollar and 15 rand to the pound Bleeds us MG nuts dry. Colin Cape Town -----Original Message----- From: David Lodge [mailto:wargs@Mac.com] Sent: 05 July 2002 04:25 To: i.thomson@talk21.com; mg-tabc@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [mg-tabc] FW: help price Ian, Very true; but I have always wondered why that should be, as US restorations are, in my experience, far superior to those done in the UK. Is that another example of the British public being robbed blind at every turn? Yours etc., David Lodge.

> > It strikes me that our cars are worth considerably less in the US than

where

> they came from. A TC would have to be a real basket case to go for only

$8 -

> $12 (adjusted for exchange rate) over here. This can be seen in the

steady

> stream of British cars which are regularly reimported for restoration.

Far

> from having no base value an unrestored car can in fact command a premium

over

> here, especially if it has that genuine old car patina. I would agree

though

> that you cannot make money on a restoration. This is even more true over

here

> as I would consider that a worthwhile restoration costs considerably more

than

> market value, perhaps double. Of course I am talking about getting it

done by

> someone other than yourself, where you have to take labour costs into

account.

> Including notional labour costs in your own restoration can put up the

price

> even more (depending on how much you value your time at)as we amatuers

take

> longer. But then again we only do it for the satisfaction of saying "I

did

> that"; do! > n't we? > > Ian Thomson > > ----------- > > >> Robert, >> Sounds like it probably needs another restoration; paint, interior, >> mechanicals, chrome, wiring, etc. Without seeing it, I would bet it's >> probably worth $8-12k. Does it have the original engine? ETC... Many old >> cars have no real base value unrestored. MGTD's are a good example, the

cost

>> to properly restore a TD is about equal to their market value. How much

are

>> correctly restored TC's actually selling for. Not asking prices, but real >> sale figures. Drivers versus show cars? It's highly unlikely you could

buy a

>> TC cheap enough to make much money on it. But if you want a driving TC,

pay

>> $10-12k, and plan on putting another $15k into it. Or, just buy a nice

one

>> for $20k and spend the summer driving it. >> I prefer the "project" aspect, and never expect to turn a profit. Enjoy

it.

>> >> Ed >> TC 0275 >> TD 11951 >> >> Hello friends, >> Can someone from USA help Robert? > Thanks for your help >> Peter Forstner - TC6325 > > > > > -------------------- > talk21 your FREE portable and private address on the net at > http://www.talk21.com > > > > > > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ > >

Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/

Posted: **Sat Jul 06, 2002 3:39 am**

G'day Fella's, I don't know about you blokes, but NONE of the MG's I've rebuilt have ever had any thoughts of 'budgets' or 'return-on-investment' considered before,during or after the re-claiming process. I should explain my background is not in commerce, and I am defintitley NOT a businessman. For me it all started nearly 40 years ago (and according to my wife, the passion or disease has never stopped!) with the acquiring of a derelict TC. I would shudder if I were to tote just how much time and money I've spent on the old thing over the years - therefore, I do not think about that side of things. Same thing with most-of-a-TA roadster which came my way a little later. Ditto with another TA, a Tickford, back in '82. Same thing happened once again with a very rusty 'GTV8 that was destined for the scrappers. That was in 1986. I confess, as a grown man, to crying as the first TA drove out of my life. (It had to go to finance the V8).Trouble is, I seem to adopt the things, not merely buy them Even the one sold was virtually given away. The new owner's credentials gave the indication that he would love the old thing as much as me. Now, I am facing retirement. And as a mere wage-slave the years of wasted opportunities buying and selling old MG's has now become obvious. I realise now maybe I should have 'screwed' a few more people along the way, and done a few more 'deals'. Been a bit more 'business-like', if you like BUT...if I'd ignored soul and had just a few more smarts would we have had the same amount of FUN? I don't know if I can bring any illlumination onto the subject viz; "What's an old MG's worth these days", Because for me the days will never end on an accountant's balance sheet. If your heart says BUY....then do it! And to hell with what it costs in mere money. Remember Fellas, we are here for a GOOD time, not a LONG time.... and they don't make play things like these anymore Regards, 'Reddo' (well into another bottle of Hunter red)

----- Original Message ----- From: i.thomson@talk21.com> To: mg-tabc@yahoogroups.com> Sent: Friday, July 05, 2002 6:59 PM Subject: Re: [mg-tabc] FW: help price > > It strikes me that our cars are worth considerably less in the US than where they came from. A TC would have to be a real basket case to go for only $8 - $12 (adjusted for exchange rate) over here. This can be seen in the steady stream of British cars which are regularly reimported for restoration. Far from having no base value an unrestored car can in fact command a premium over here, especially if it has that genuine old car patina. I would agree though that you cannot make money on a restoration. This is even more true over here as I would consider that a worthwhile restoration costs considerably more than market value, perhaps double. Of course I am talking about getting it done by someone other than yourself, where you have to take labour costs into account. Including notional labour costs in your own restoration can put up the price even more (depending on how much you value your time at)as we amatuers take longer. But then again we only do it for the satisfaction of saying "I did that"; don't we? > > Ian Thomson > > ----------- > > > > Robert, > >Sounds like it probably needs another restoration; paint, interior, > >mechanicals, chrome, wiring, etc. Without seeing it, I would bet it's > >probably worth $8-12k. Does it have the original engine? ETC... Many old > >cars have no real base value unrestored. MGTD's are a good example, the cost > >to properly restore a TD is about equal to their market value. How much are > >correctly restored TC's actually selling for. Not asking prices, but real > >sale figures. Drivers versus show cars? It's highly unlikely you could buy a > >TC cheap enough to make much money on it. But if you want a driving TC, pay > >$10-12k, and plan on putting another $15k into it. Or, just buy a nice one > >for $20k and spend the summer driving it. > >I prefer the "project" aspect, and never expect to turn a profit. Enjoy it. > > > >Ed > >TC 0275 > >TD 11951 > > > > Hello friends, > > Can someone from USA help Robert? > Thanks for your help > > Peter Forstner - TC6325 > > > > > -------------------- > talk21 your FREE portable and private address on the net at http://www.talk21.com > > > > > > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ > >

Posted: **Sat Jul 06, 2002 7:36 am**

Well said Jeff. I agree 100% Dennis [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Posted: **Sat Jul 06, 2002 7:46 am**

Jeff said:

>I don't know about you blokes, but NONE of the MG's I've rebuilt have

ever had any thoughts of 'budgets' or 'return-on-investment' considered before, during or after the re-claiming process. >But then again we only do it for the satisfaction of saying "I did

Posted: **Sat Jul 06, 2002 10:22 am**

Colin, And speaking of the Third World, take Canada, for example, ("there's an offer!"). When I came here in 1971 the $US was worth $1.10 Cdn. Then that ghastly Pierre Trudeau's policies kicked in and the $Cdn went into free-fall where it now languishes at 66 cents US. Without intending to get off topic, I suggest that currencies are judged on government policy, or lack thereof. Regards, David Lodge.

> You guys should think how we feel in South Africa, 10 rand to the dollar and > 15 rand to the pound > Bleeds us MG nuts dry. > Colin > Cape Town > > -----Original Message----- > From: David Lodge [mailto:wargs@Mac.com] > Sent: 05 July 2002 04:25 > To: i.thomson@talk21.com; mg-tabc@yahoogroups.com > Subject: Re: [mg-tabc] FW: help price > > > Ian, > Very true; but I have always wondered why that should be, as US restorations > are, in my experience, far superior to those done in the UK. Is that another > example of the British public being robbed blind at every turn? > Yours etc., David Lodge. > > > >> >> It strikes me that our cars are worth considerably less in the US than > where >> they came from. A TC would have to be a real basket case to go for only > $8 - >> $12 (adjusted for exchange rate) over here. This can be seen in the > steady >> stream of British cars which are regularly reimported for restoration. > Far >> from having no base value an unrestored car can in fact command a premium > over >> here, especially if it has that genuine old car patina. I would agree > though >> that you cannot make money on a restoration. This is even more true over > here >> as I would consider that a worthwhile restoration costs considerably more > than >> market value, perhaps double. Of course I am talking about getting it > done by >> someone other than yourself, where you have to take labour costs into > account. >> Including notional labour costs in your own restoration can put up the > price >> even more (depending on how much you value your time at)as we amatuers > take >> longer. But then again we only do it for the satisfaction of saying "I > did >> that"; do! >> n't we? >> >> Ian Thomson >> >> ----------- >> >> >>> Robert, >>> Sounds like it probably needs another restoration; paint, interior, >>> mechanicals, chrome, wiring, etc. Without seeing it, I would bet it's >>> probably worth $8-12k. Does it have the original engine? ETC... Many old >>> cars have no real base value unrestored. MGTD's are a good example, the > cost >>> to properly restore a TD is about equal to their market value. How much > are >>> correctly restored TC's actually selling for. Not asking prices, but real >>> sale figures. Drivers versus show cars? It's highly unlikely you could > buy a >>> TC cheap enough to make much money on it. But if you want a driving TC, > pay >>> $10-12k, and plan on putting another $15k into it. Or, just buy a nice > one >>> for $20k and spend the summer driving it. >>> I prefer the "project" aspect, and never expect to turn a profit. Enjoy > it. >>> >>> Ed >>> TC 0275 >>> TD 11951 >>> >>> Hello friends, >>> Can someone from USA help Robert? > Thanks for your help >>> Peter Forstner - TC6325 >> >> >> >> >> -------------------- >> talk21 your FREE portable and private address on the net at >> http://www.talk21.com >> >> >> >> >> >> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ >> >> > > > > > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ > > > > > > > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ > >

Wilsons Sandbox

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