TC water pump

[sculptart@aol.com]

To all, I find I have a small bit of play in the spindle on the water pump shaft for the TC. This would indicate one or both bearings need replacement to me. Has anyone done a rebuild on these units and are they as straight forward as they seem? How full should the "void" between bearings be filled with grease? It seems to me to force grease into the bearing surfaces this should be full. Does Abingdon spares sell a good seal and all the related parts? Thanks in advance for any input, Ben, TC 4260

[George Arber]

The xpag engine in our TC was fully rebuilt approx. seven years ago which in turn led to my decision to restore the complete car ( it's a long story and I will not bore you with the details ) .Three months ago the engine was fired up for the first time since it's rebuild and run for a couple of minutes and at that time I exchanged emails with several mg-tabc'ers re. low oil pressure in spite of priming the oil pump. ( still concerned over this ). However, bearing in mind that the engine has been and still is static since it's initial albeit brief burst of life (other than for rotating with the starting handle for timing / tappet setting) , the water pump - which was new at the time of the engine rebuild - has developed a persistent coolant leak from the bottom drain hole. The drain hole is about 1/8 inch dia, and is sited on the underside of the pump body. The pump has done no ' mileage ' but the leak seems to be getting worse .The pump whilst unused is of course way out of it's warranty by date. I seem to recall that the pump was an exchange item as I was advised at the time that rebuild kits were not available. According to Moss, the internal components are not available. Question...a). Is there any possibility that the 'seals' will bed in and the leak cease ? b). Is it possible to get at the internals and effect a repair ? c). Are the seals carbon ? d). Are any internal components available in the UK ? Any thoughts on resolving my current 'damp' dilemma will be gratefully received. George.....TC 7548 EXU

[Donald Wilkinson]

George: Sure sounds like you (or someone) or many years of what the pump doubtless considers neglect & abandonment, has toasted the seal, doubtless graphite; the list graybeards will know for sure. You'll need to take it apart & examine. Dunno where yer based, but in any metropolitan (at least USA) place, I have always been able to prowl all the local mill/industrial/bearing & seal supply places and come up with something to repair these otherwise NLS auto or marine goodies. Now Skip Kelsey, Bob Grunau, and other list cats like that probably have what you need on their shelves. Sit tight, y'all'll be hearin' from them shortly. As to low XPAG blood pressure, if you've checked all the obvious external stuff, such as worn oil pump,bypass valve, leaky rocker shaft bushes, loose screws here & there, etc.etc., you may have to just snatch that puppy outta there and (after disassembly) check all clearances. Don'tcha just LUV it? Don TC 7993

>From: "George Arber" george.arber@virgin.net> >To: "mgtabc" mg-tabc@yahoogroups.com> >Subject: [mg-tabc] TC water pump >Date: Tue, 25 Feb 2003 23:33:47 -0000 > >The xpag engine in our TC was fully rebuilt approx. seven years ago which >in >turn led to my decision to restore the complete car ( it's a long story and >I will not bore you with the details ) .Three months ago the engine was >fired up for the first time since it's rebuild and run for a couple of >minutes and at that time I exchanged emails with several mg-tabc'ers re. >low >oil pressure in spite of priming the oil pump. ( still concerned over >this ). > However, bearing in mind that the engine has been and still is static >since >it's initial albeit brief burst of life (other than for rotating with the >starting handle for timing / tappet setting) , the water pump - which was >new at the time of the engine rebuild - has developed a persistent coolant >leak from the bottom drain hole. The drain hole is about 1/8 inch dia, and >is sited on the underside of the pump body. The pump has done no ' mileage >' >but the leak seems to be getting worse .The pump whilst unused is of course >way out of it's warranty by date. I seem to recall that the pump was an >exchange item as I was advised at the time that rebuild kits were not >available. According to Moss, the internal components are not available. > >Question...a). Is there any possibility that the 'seals' will bed in and >the >leak cease ? > b). Is it possible to get at the internals and effect a >repair ? > c). Are the seals carbon ? > d). Are any internal components available in the UK ? > >Any thoughts on resolving my current 'damp' dilemma will be gratefully >received. > >George.....TC 7548 EXU > > > > >Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ > >

_________________________________________________________________ The new MSN 8: smart spam protection and 2 months FREE* http://join.msn.com/?page=features/junkmail

[Bullwinkle]

<<>> Question...a). Is there any possibility that the 'seals' will bed in and the leak cease ? b). Is it possible to get at the internals and effect a repair ? c). Are the seals carbon ? d). Are any internal components available in the UK ? <<>> On the original pumps there is a carbon seal mounted in a rubber diaphragm. The carbon seal runs against a brass surface which is part of the impeller. A) Perhaps. I would remove the water pump and drain it of all the coolant. After carefully cleaning out the coolant, examine the rubber diaphragm holding the seal if you can. You could try softly blowing into the weep hole to see how much or bad it leaks. A bad leak would probably mean the diaphragn has a hole. If it appears to be just a small leak, then belt the pump up to a motor a let it run DRY for a while. It is common practice to run new pumps for a short time with no coolant to bed them in. Antifreeze is even more slippery. B) The carbon seal was available from Abingdon Spares, USA. A new seal and repacking the bearings would be in order. There is an early and later type pump which was fitted to the TD. You'll have to check to make sure you have the TC pump. Anglo parts in Belgium listed them in their catalog once. C) Brown & Gammons listed a rebuild kit in their preliminary catalog of about 5 years ago. They don't say which one it is. Try them. Blake

[paroor@t-online.de]

Dear Blake and others, The water pump repair kit ( Simple one ) is available in old Europe for 12,80. The exchange water pump is available at 43,50 to 91,50. I do not know how this price is determined. Fan belt is 12,60. Come to Good old Europe. You get every thing here. Madhu TC 0448 -----Urspr ngliche Nachricht----- Von: Bullwinkle [mailto:yd3@nvc.net] Gesendet: Mittwoch, 26. Februar 2003 03:13 An: mgtabc Betreff: [mg-tabc] RE: TC water pump >> Question...a). Is there any possibility that the 'seals' will bed in and the leak cease ? b). Is it possible to get at the internals and effect a repair ? c). Are the seals carbon ? d). Are any internal components available in the UK ? >> On the original pumps there is a carbon seal mounted in a rubber diaphragm. The carbon seal runs against a brass surface which is part of the impeller. C) Brown & Gammons listed a rebuild kit in their preliminary catalog of about 5 years ago. They don't say which one it is. Try them. Blake Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/

[i.thomson@talk21.com]

Bite the bullet and buy a new pump is my advice. You won't find out if the seals are carbon without pulling it - and the carbon seals are not good anyway. As a replacement item I would guess that there is a lip seal in there. Yes you can rebuild it, and with a new item, as this is, it may be worth it, but I would replace it and rebuild the one you have as a spare. Ian Thomson ----------------------

> The xpag engine in our TC was fully rebuilt approx. seven years ago which in >turn led to my decision to restore the complete car ( it's a long story and >I will not bore you with the details ) .Three months ago the engine was >fired up for the first time since it's rebuild and run for a couple of >minutes and at that time I exchanged emails with several mg-tabc'ers re. low >oil pressure in spite of priming the oil pump. ( still concerned over >this ). > However, bearing in mind that the engine has been and still is static since >it's initial albeit brief burst of life (other than for rotating with the >starting handle for timing / tappet setting) , the water pump - which was >new at the time of the engine rebuild - has developed a persistent coolant >leak from the bottom drain hole. The drain hole is about 1/8 inch dia, and >is sited on the underside of the pump body. The pump has done no ' mileage ' >but the leak seems to be getting worse .The pump whilst unused is of course >way out of it's warranty by date. I seem to recall that the pump was an >exchange item as I was advised at the time that rebuild kits were not >available. According to Moss, the internal components are not available. > >Question...a). Is there any possibility that the 'seals' will bed in and the >leak cease ? > b). Is it possible to get at the internals and effect a >repair ? > c). Are the seals carbon ? > d). Are any internal components available in the UK ? > >Any thoughts on resolving my current 'damp' dilemma will be gratefully >received. > >George.....TC 7548 EXU >

-------------------- talk21 your FREE portable and private address on the net at http://www.talk21.com

[Harry Pyle]

George, Usually a water pump will leak slightly after a new seal has been installed....until it "beds" in. Give it 100 miles or so on the road. Also..usually the pump only leaks when the engine is stopped. When you park the car with engine off and you notice it leaking...lift the bonnet and turn the fan/pump 1/4 turn and check for leaks..if so do another 1/4 turn etc. Usually you will find a spot where it wont leak at all. After about 50-100miles the thing will hopefully be water tight. Sounds like a story I know....but it is true...honest. Hope it helps..regards Harry Pyle

----- Original Message ----- From: "George Arber" george.arber@virgin.net> To: "mgtabc" mg-tabc@yahoogroups.com> Sent: Wednesday, February 26, 2003 7:33 AM Subject: [mg-tabc] TC water pump > The xpag engine in our TC was fully rebuilt approx. seven years ago which in > turn led to my decision to restore the complete car ( it's a long story and > I will not bore you with the details ) .Three months ago the engine was > fired up for the first time since it's rebuild and run for a couple of > minutes and at that time I exchanged emails with several mg-tabc'ers re. low > oil pressure in spite of priming the oil pump. ( still concerned over > this ). > However, bearing in mind that the engine has been and still is static since > it's initial albeit brief burst of life (other than for rotating with the > starting handle for timing / tappet setting) , the water pump - which was > new at the time of the engine rebuild - has developed a persistent coolant > leak from the bottom drain hole. The drain hole is about 1/8 inch dia, and > is sited on the underside of the pump body. The pump has done no ' mileage ' > but the leak seems to be getting worse .The pump whilst unused is of course > way out of it's warranty by date. I seem to recall that the pump was an > exchange item as I was advised at the time that rebuild kits were not > available. According to Moss, the internal components are not available. > > Question...a). Is there any possibility that the 'seals' will bed in and the > leak cease ? > b). Is it possible to get at the internals and effect a > repair ? > c). Are the seals carbon ? > d). Are any internal components available in the UK ? > > Any thoughts on resolving my current 'damp' dilemma will be gratefully > received. > > George.....TC 7548 EXU > > > > > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ > >

[Roger Furneaux]

hi George - the pumps supplied now, and probably for several years now, use a modern type of seal instead of the old type which had quite a wide carbon (graphite) ring plus various other bits including a spring. The new seals have taken over, but the sealing ring is only 2mm wide! The whole thing is one piece, with the spring encased in rubber (neoprene?) and pushes into the pump body just like a bath plug. Because modern technology it meant to be so wonderful, whoever re-engineered these pumps decided to do away with the grease nipple, and rely on sealed bearings. But if you look, the body casting still has the small boss which in more enlightened times was drilled and tapped for said nipple! These pumps often fail when new, for the simple reason that the "bath plug" is either not installed fully, or else the casting is faulty. And if your engine is cooked as a result, as happened to a friend of mine, don't expect the supplier to foot the bill - the best you can expect is another pump. Internal parts are certainly available from Abingdon Spares (don't know about Moss), the seal is p/n 7/20, $13.60 in the Nov. 2000 pricelist for the later TD/TF pump. It is made by Dilitex in the UK, although I have never found anybody here who stocks it, and is number W7. Pumps are easily stripped down for examination. Another problem with them is wobbly pulleys, a problem solved by Phil Marino who made (still makes?) new stainless steel shafts with a morse-taper end, as per his (and mine, and Bob Grunau's) halfshafts. I have a box load of old pumps, and had thought of refurbishing them with stainless shafts, bronze impellors and new seals, but hey, life is too short! ocTagonally TCRoger George Arber wrote;

>The xpag engine in our TC was fully rebuilt approx. seven years ago which in >turn led to my decision to restore the complete car ( it's a long story and >I will not bore you with the details ) .Three months ago the engine was >fired up for the first time since it's rebuild and run for a couple of >minutes and at that time I exchanged emails with several mg-tabc'ers re. low >oil pressure in spite of priming the oil pump. ( still concerned over >this ). > However, bearing in mind that the engine has been and still is static since >it's initial albeit brief burst of life (other than for rotating with the >starting handle for timing / tappet setting) , the water pump - which was >new at the time of the engine rebuild - has developed a persistent coolant >leak from the bottom drain hole. The drain hole is about 1/8 inch dia, and >is sited on the underside of the pump body. The pump has done no ' mileage ' >but the leak seems to be getting worse .The pump whilst unused is of course >way out of it's warranty by date. I seem to recall that the pump was an >exchange item as I was advised at the time that rebuild kits were not >available. According to Moss, the internal components are not available. > >Question...a). Is there any possibility that the 'seals' will bed in and the >leak cease ? > b). Is it possible to get at the internals and effect a >repair ? > c). Are the seals carbon ? > d). Are any internal components available in the UK ? > >Any thoughts on resolving my current 'damp' dilemma will be gratefully >received.

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

[Victoria]

Hi George, way back in my foolish youth I owned a TD, the water pump of which leaked. In those days spares were readily available and I tried numerous kits, had the face where the carbon gland sealed refaced, in fact everything but it still leaked. As an impoverished student I then purchased an used pump, which happened to be from a MORRIS 10. I left on all the muck and installed it as bought. Result no more leak. So do as suggested and buy another. Clem TC 7218

[George Smith]

I am triing to rebuild a spare TC water pump. I still need the carbon seal which mounts infront of the impeller. Neither Moss nor Abingdon Spares carry it. Any ideas on who may carry this part. Thanks George