Re: I see a red engine, and I want it painted black............;-)
Posted: Wed Feb 20, 2002 8:18 am
Ray,
You really should be more careful about quoting a man when he is
drunk...especially when he starts singing Stones songs. Oh well, thanks for
the back up. I could write a book...in fact I am (TB). To start with, black
and white and all the greys in between are not colours they are values. B&W
factory pics. are also of value in that they can help us determine when
there is an absence of colour. The following are some pictures which clearly
show TB engines and radiator header tanks that are not black and dynamos
that are nickel plated:
The T-Series MGS by Graham Robson / pages,35 ,36, and 37. (page 35 also
shows carburators unique to the TB).
MG TA & TC Gold Portfolio 1936-1939 Brooklands Books / pages 43 and 53.
There are also many other pictures of TAs,TBs, TCs, and SVW cars with the
same radiator header tank treatment and I have been informed that the very
early TCs had their header tanks painted grey / green after the war.
I am also very happy that I own an original TB sales brochure but I was
disappointed that all the pictures in it are of TAs. These have been
doctored a bit. The cut away picture is in fact a very early TA...petrol
tank and cap alone are a give away. The header tank is black here but was on
the early TA.
The TB is a rare bird and much misinformation is out there ! ! ! This
engine colour issue was belabored here in the past...it is in the archives
along with TB headlamps and lenses which are NOT the same as TA ! ! ! The
TB originally had very different carburators than the TC...the list goes on
and on...and the TABC list is quite bored by now and it is back to work for
me.
CHEERS all,
John
TB#0398 XPAG#662
----- Original Message ----- From: "Ray" spook01@home.com> To: "mg-tabc" mg-tabc@yahoogroups.com> Sent: Tuesday, February 19, 2002 9:53 PM Subject: [mg-tabc] I see a red engine, and I want it painted black............-Mick J, expurgated > Hi guys, > Colors! > Or actually lack thereof! > Header tank- jury is out. Like I said before, digitalized photo analysis > shows that the tank appears a light or silver color. Maybe a bad old photo. > Maybe not. I am not certain that a modern Modine radiator is a very good > example...I mean, my new car Modine radiator is black plastic and natural > aluminum! > The TB dynamo body was unpainted nickel with a black dust cover over the > brushes (shown in various factory photos)...a match with the radiator tank > would suggest a light color, at the least. > I am not sure the idea of joining the header tank to the matrix is a rock > solid indicator, either. The matrix is copper, and the tank is not. > It could very well have been painted a different color....as the old junk TA > radiator in my basement is painted. This radiator came from a late TA that > was crashed in the late thirties-early 40's, and due to war shortages never > repaired. I bought the car it was attached to as a parts car for my '36 > large tank TA. (Gone home now to the UK with its MPJG engine from the > second car which worked great! ) This tank has a flat aluminum paint on > the header tank, and the rest is black. > The problem with most TB's is that they have TC engines in them now. (As > most know, the real TB engine has the casting date beside the oil pressure > takeoff on the left side of the block, as well as a different number under > the dynamo. The TC replacement engines do not.) > Because of this, it is tough to say what shade of red the TB engine was > originally painted. I am fortunate in having a low mileage original engine > in my TB. The one it came with when new. The only thing that appears to > have been removed from engine 805 in its short life is the cylinder head. > There are traces of the original paint under various bolts, on the rear etc. > on the engine......the engine is a std., std., std. unit, by the way. > There is absolutely no evidence of black on the engine block. > The color is a dark red with puce undertone almost the exact match of the > MGB engine color. > This was observed when I stripped it down to check it over, since it has sat > without running most of its life. I wound up replacing only the rings as I > was afraid that they would have collapsed after so long! > Now, does that mean that no TB engines were painted black? > No. > Some of the early TC's (some) had the late TB engine with tensioner, as well > as some of the factory hacks. Some of these engines may have been black. > Perhaps some of the Tickfords had black engines. This may be what Mr. Stone > remembered nearly half a century later, as well as what was referenced in > the road test. > I will be the first to say that I haven't seen all the TB's, but the show > cars that I -have- seen have had TC engines, along with the TC carbs, tappet > covers, etc. and I just don't think those cars can be counted on to show > most of the sometimes subtle differences between the TB and later cars. > If you like a black engine, go for it. You won't have the originality cops > outside your door...! At least it will dump more heat, and the dang oil > doesn't show! > Best Regards, > Ray > "Remember- It's the collision with the planet that counts!" > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Bill Hentzen" bill@rangelinemews.com> > To: "mg-tabc" mg-tabc@yahoogroups.com> > Sent: Tuesday, February 19, 2002 5:55 PM > Subject: [mg-tabc] Black paint > > > > G'day > > > > A few observations on color of header tanks: > > Sept 8,1939 'Light Car' b/w photo shows the header tank light in color to > > match dynamo and rocker cover. > > Sept 5, 1939 'The Motor' b/w photo shows header tank with same light color > > as hoses. > > TB factory sales brochure shows header cover and rest of engine the same > > depth of color. > > Question: Does it seem likely that the bottom tank and side members and > > core were painted black and then the top tank attached?. > > I sold paint to Modine, a mfg'r of industrial radiators and oil > > coolers.They and every radiator shop I visited sprayed in the old days the > > cheapest black asphalt cut and more recently a water reducible paint on > > assembled units. > > So, no answer, only observations. > > > > On another black paint issue-TB engine color: > > October 12, 1945 'Autocar': to repeat other references:" " Under-bonnet" > > appearance improved. Electrical leads and pipe lines neatly grouped. > Engine > > color finish in grey cellulose instead of black." This was from a review > of > > the new TC. > > Easter 1987, MG Nat Meet Perth at the Presentation Dinner where Henry > Stone > > was guest of honor, my direct question to Henry-what color did you paint > TB > > engines? His immediate response-black. Harry Pyle did TB440 in black. > > However, one very respected Dutch friend, who was a real stickler for > > detail said he saw no evidence of any black on his TB engine, only red. > > So, again , no answer, only observations. > > Black is beautiful on TB437 > > > > Cheers! > > > > > > > > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ > >