Black paint

[Bill Hentzen]

G'day A few observations on color of header tanks: Sept 8,1939 'Light Car' b/w photo shows the header tank light in color to match dynamo and rocker cover. Sept 5, 1939 'The Motor' b/w photo shows header tank with same light color as hoses. TB factory sales brochure shows header cover and rest of engine the same depth of color. Question: Does it seem likely that the bottom tank and side members and core were painted black and then the top tank attached?. I sold paint to Modine, a mfg'r of industrial radiators and oil coolers.They and every radiator shop I visited sprayed in the old days the cheapest black asphalt cut and more recently a water reducible paint on assembled units. So, no answer, only observations. On another black paint issue-TB engine color: October 12, 1945 'Autocar': to repeat other references:" " Under-bonnet" appearance improved. Electrical leads and pipe lines neatly grouped. Engine color finish in grey cellulose instead of black." This was from a review of the new TC. Easter 1987, MG Nat Meet Perth at the Presentation Dinner where Henry Stone was guest of honor, my direct question to Henry-what color did you paint TB engines? His immediate response-black. Harry Pyle did TB440 in black. However, one very respected Dutch friend, who was a real stickler for detail said he saw no evidence of any black on his TB engine, only red. So, again , no answer, only observations. Black is beautiful on TB437 Cheers! Bill

[Roger Furneaux]

Re: [mg-tabc] Black paint hi Bill - must be a trick of the light?! Surely hoses were only ever available in black? And rads had to be assembled at one time [b]before[/b] painting, lots of heat from the soldering etc. oc[b]T[/b]agonally Roger

[quote] A few observations on color of header tanks: Sept 8,1939 'Light Car' b/w photo shows the header tank light in color to match dynamo and rocker cover. Sept 5, 1939 'The Motor' b/w photo shows header tank with same light color as hoses. TB factory sales brochure shows header cover and rest of engine the same depth of color. Question: Does it seem likely that the bottom tank and side members and core were painted black and then the top tank attached?. I sold paint to Modine, a mfg'r of industrial radiators and oil coolers.They and every radiator shop I visited sprayed in the old days the cheapest black asphalt cut and more recently a water reducible paint on assembled units. So, no answer, only observations. On another black paint issue-TB engine color: October 12, 1945 'Autocar': to repeat other references:" " Under-bonnet" appearance improved. Electrical leads and pipe lines neatly grouped. Engine color finish in grey cellulose instead of black." This was from a review of the new TC. Easter 1987, MG Nat Meet Perth at the Presentation Dinner where Henry Stone was guest of honor, my direct question to Henry-what color did you paint TB engines? His immediate response-black. Harry Pyle did TB440 in black. However, one very respected Dutch friend, who was a real stickler for detail said he saw no evidence of any black on his TB engine, only red. So, again , no answer, only observations. Black is beautiful on TB437 Cheers! Bill Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/

[/quote]

[John G. Bulcken IV]

Re: [mg-tabc] Black paint Hoses, tyres and other rubber bits often look light as do canvas tops in old B&W photos. Rads. and tanks were two tone from some time in 1938 to as late as 1947...from TA to TC and SVW too ! Perhaps not all of them but more were than were not. We can prove what was ...not what was not etc., etc. Open some books...look at factory photos. CHEERS, John TB#0398

----- Original Message ----- [b]From:[/b] roger.46tc@virgin.net [b]To:[/b] bill@rangelinemews.com [b]Cc:[/b] mg-tabc@yahoogroups.com [b]Sent:[/b] Wednesday, February 20, 2002 12:30 PM [b]Subject:[/b] Re: [mg-tabc] Black paint hi Bill - must be a trick of the light?! Surely hoses were only ever available in black? And rads had to be assembled at one time [b]before[/b] painting, lots of heat from the soldering etc. oc[b]T[/b]agonally Roger [quote] A few observations on color of header tanks: Sept 8,1939 'Light Car' b/w photo shows the header tank light in color to match dynamo and rocker cover. Sept 5, 1939 'The Motor' b/w photo shows header tank with same light color as hoses. TB factory sales brochure shows header cover and rest of engine the same depth of color. Question: Does it seem likely that the bottom tank and side members and core were painted black and then the top tank attached?. I sold paint to Modine, a mfg'r of industrial radiators and oil coolers.They and every radiator shop I visited sprayed in the old days the cheapest black asphalt cut and more recently a water reducible paint on assembled units. So, no answer, only observations. On another black paint issue-TB engine color: October 12, 1945 'Autocar': to repeat other references:" " Under-bonnet" appearance improved. Electrical leads and pipe lines neatly grouped. Engine color finish in grey cellulose instead of black." This was from a review of the new TC. Easter 1987, MG Nat Meet Perth at the Presentation Dinner where Henry Stone was guest of honor, my direct question to Henry-what color did you paint TB engines? His immediate response-black. Harry Pyle did TB440 in black. However, one very respected Dutch friend, who was a real stickler for detail said he saw no evidence of any black on his TB engine, only red. So, again , no answer, only observations. Black is beautiful on TB437 Cheers! Bill Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/

Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service. [/quote]

[Ray]

Might be.... Best Regards, Ray "Remember- It's the collision with the planet that counts!"

----- Original Message ----- From: "Roger Furneaux" roger.46tc@virgin.net> To: "Bill Hentzen" bill@rangelinemews.com> Cc: mg-tabc@yahoogroups.com> Sent: Wednesday, February 20, 2002 11:30 AM Subject: Re: [mg-tabc] Black paint > hi Bill - must be a trick of the light?! Surely hoses were only ever > available in black? And rads had to be assembled at one time before > painting, lots of heat from the soldering etc. > > ocTagonally > > Roger > > A few observations on color of header tanks: > Sept 8,1939 'Light Car' b/w photo shows the header tank light in color to > match dynamo and rocker cover. > Sept 5, 1939 'The Motor' b/w photo shows header tank with same light color > as hoses. > TB factory sales brochure shows header cover and rest of engine the same > depth of color. > Question: Does it seem likely that the bottom tank and side members and > core were painted black and then the top tank attached?. > I sold paint to Modine, a mfg'r of industrial radiators and oil > coolers.They and every radiator shop I visited sprayed in the old days the > cheapest black asphalt cut and more recently a water reducible paint on > assembled units. > So, no answer, only observations. > > On another black paint issue-TB engine color: > October 12, 1945 'Autocar': to repeat other references:" " Under-bonnet" > appearance improved. Electrical leads and pipe lines neatly grouped. Engine > color finish in grey cellulose instead of black." This was from a review of > the new TC. > Easter 1987, MG Nat Meet Perth at the Presentation Dinner where Henry Stone > was guest of honor, my direct question to Henry-what color did you paint TB > engines? His immediate response-black. Harry Pyle did TB440 in black. > However, one very respected Dutch friend, who was a real stickler for > detail said he saw no evidence of any black on his TB engine, only red. > So, again , no answer, only observations. > Black is beautiful on TB437 > > Cheers! > > Bill > > > > > > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ > > > > >

[Chip Old]

On Wed, 20 Feb 2002, Roger Furneaux wrote:

> hi Bill - must be a trick of the light?! Surely hoses were only ever > available in black?

Actually radiator hoses can be made in almost any color.

> And rads had to be assembled at one time before painting, lots of heat > from the soldering etc.

Agreed. If you examine how the radiator is soldered together it's obvious that it would be impossible to assemble pre-painted bits into a complete radiator. It had to be painted after soldering. It seems highly unlikely that the Morris radiator plant would have taken the time to do a multi-colored paint scheme. Depending on shades of gray in black & white photos to determine colors is always iffy. -- Chip Old 1948 M.G. TC TC6710 XPAG7430 NEMGTR #2271 Cub Hill, Maryland 1962 Triumph TR4 CT3154LO CT3479E fold@bcpl.net

[John G. Bulcken IV]

Unlikely yes...but they did it and there are way too many factory photos and original examples out there to just dismiss this. Have a look at the Robson book mentioned earlier on page 48, and 49. Or look at Mike Sherrell's excellent book on page 44. BTW this is presumably the TC prototype and former TB. That is a TB type engine, and it is not black. It has the TB type tappet side plate,TB chrome valve cover, header tank is not painted black. This is no longer a TB so the two brush TC dynamo is black and not nickel like the TB was. This is only the tip of the ice berg folks. CHEERS, John & Crystal TB#0398

----- Original Message ----- From: "Chip Old" fold@bcpl.net> To: "MG-TABC" mg-tabc@yahoogroups.com> Sent: Wednesday, February 20, 2002 2:53 PM Subject: Re: [mg-tabc] Black paint > On Wed, 20 Feb 2002, Roger Furneaux wrote: > > > hi Bill - must be a trick of the light?! Surely hoses were only ever > > available in black? > > Actually radiator hoses can be made in almost any color. > > > And rads had to be assembled at one time before painting, lots of heat > > from the soldering etc. > > Agreed. If you examine how the radiator is soldered together it's obvious > that it would be impossible to assemble pre-painted bits into a complete > radiator. It had to be painted after soldering. It seems highly unlikely > that the Morris radiator plant would have taken the time to do a > multi-colored paint scheme. > > Depending on shades of gray in black & white photos to determine colors > is always iffy. > > -- > Chip Old 1948 M.G. TC TC6710 XPAG7430 NEMGTR #2271 > Cub Hill, Maryland 1962 Triumph TR4 CT3154LO CT3479E > fold@bcpl.net > > > > > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ > >

[DAVID DARRELL]

Be carefull with your humour. Many moons ago I was a transport manager and the company changed the colour of the fleet to Black. Fine so I had the first new lorry painted Black the problem came when I bought the next one from a different company. Their paint sprayer rang me up and said what colour Black. I could not believe this I thought here goes the left handed screwdriver joke but believe it or not there are a number of different shades of Black great fun. Even more fun later have you ever tried to keep a fleet of Black lorries looking good my cleaning bill went up 300%. DAVID DARRELL With 1 car in the stable in Black about to be 2 toned with MG Red

[David Lodge]

Hello David, You've just confirmed my worst suspicions! 1704 is going to be returned to works black when the time comes, and I've been pondering this for some time. The "best" black I've seen by far is from House of Kolor and is much favoured by our be-leathered and tattooed two-wheeled brethren of the road. Anyone else have thoughts? Regards, David Lodge ----- ORIGINAL MESSAGE ----- From: "DAVID DARRELL" david.darrell5@ntlworld.com> To: mg-tabc@yahoogroups.com Subject: [mg-tabc] Black Paint Date: 25.10.2004 - 14:47:46

> > Be carefull with your humour. > Many moons ago I was a transport manager and the > company changed the > colour of the fleet to Black. > Fine so I had the first new lorry painted Black the > problem came when I > bought the next one from a different company. > Their paint sprayer rang me up and said what colour > Black. > I could not believe this I thought here goes the left > handed screwdriver > joke but believe it or not there are a number of > different shades of > Black great fun. > Even more fun later have you ever tried to keep a fleet > of Black lorries > looking good my cleaning bill went up 300%. > > DAVID DARRELL > With 1 car in the stable in Black about to be 2 toned > with MG Red > > > > > > > > > Yahoo! Groups Links > > > > > > > >

-- A za kolik kupujete ELEKTRO Vy? http://www.MALL.cz/penezenka Ov te si p es SMS, kolik se d U ET IT!

[Clive Sherriff]

My experience exactly - Black is one of the most difficult colours to match - and every shower of rain, or good blow of dust makes the car dirty! Avoid like the plague!!! Clive ========================================

----- Original Message ----- From: "David Lodge" archie_ponsonby@post.cz> To: david.darrell5@ntlworld.com>; mg-tabc@yahoogroups.com> Sent: Tuesday, October 26, 2004 5:21 AM Subject: Re: [mg-tabc] Black Paint Hello David, You've just confirmed my worst suspicions! 1704 is going to be returned to works black when the time comes, and I've been pondering this for some time. The "best" black I've seen by far is from House of Kolor and is much favoured by our be-leathered and tattooed two-wheeled brethren of the road. Anyone else have thoughts? Regards, David Lodge ----- ORIGINAL MESSAGE ----- From: "DAVID DARRELL" david.darrell5@ntlworld.com> To: mg-tabc@yahoogroups.com Subject: [mg-tabc] Black Paint Date: 25.10.2004 - 14:47:46 > > Be carefull with your humour. > Many moons ago I was a transport manager and the > company changed the > colour of the fleet to Black. > Fine so I had the first new lorry painted Black the > problem came when I > bought the next one from a different company. > Their paint sprayer rang me up and said what colour > Black. > I could not believe this I thought here goes the left > handed screwdriver > joke but believe it or not there are a number of > different shades of > Black great fun. > Even more fun later have you ever tried to keep a fleet > of Black lorries > looking good my cleaning bill went up 300%. > > DAVID DARRELL > With 1 car in the stable in Black about to be 2 toned > with MG Red > > > > > > > > > Yahoo! Groups Links > > > > > > > > -- A za kolik kupujete ELEKTRO Vy? http://www.MALL.cz/penezenka Ov te si p es SMS, kolik se d U ET IT! Yahoo! Groups Links