Restoration semantics

[Ray]

Nope. If it was screwed up, you have no choice but to rebuild. Using original or repro parts as good as you can get. Best, Ray

----- Original Message ----- [b]From:[/b] Emgeeguy@aol.com [b]To:[/b] bharkins@tfb.com ; 100070.740@compuserve.com [b]Cc:[/b] mg-tabc@yahoogroups.com [b]Sent:[/b] Thursday, December 13, 2001 12:15 AM [b]Subject:[/b] Re: [mg-tabc] Restoration semantics Like Dave Edgar, I wasn't going to join in, but I think I'll put my 2 cents in. When I bought my J2, I had a hard time making it go in a straight lin, but I bought it anyhow. A new set of tires and adjusting the toe in certainly helped. The car looked very original, but the dasboard had a lot of extra switches, the paint (very old) had been polished enough in a lot of places that it was gone, and I was afraid to drive it hard and fast because i really didn't know the condition of the running gear. So, even though the car had a lot of patina, and some folks would say leave it alone and as is, I decided to take the body parts off, paint them, and clean up the chassis. When the fenders were stripped, the overlap braze joints on the fenders and the aluminum screwed-on strips on the body quarter panel all showed up. Should I have left these alone?? Also, one of the front springs was not a J2 spring, and resulted in the mounting of the front axle to be about 1-1/2 inches further back from the other. The right front hub was where the left one should be, and vice versa. Shocke were toatlly shot. Firewall had several big notches in it, and was painted over. Etc., etc. So, would you purists say that I should have left it alone because it looked so original and had a lot of patina? I couldn't tell whether the fenders had ever been repaired or not. I couldn't see the aluminum strips on the body panel. The springs looked ok, although I could have done some very careful measurements and found that one was wrong. The car sure did have a lot of patina, however. I have elected to restore the car to the way it was in its early life. I am using old bolts except where safty is an issue, all of the old parts, unless worn beyond their use, and am giving it a new paint job. I will be happy with the car, will take it to a few shows probably, but plan to drive it hard and fast because I will know what is there, not unsure as I had been before the dismantling. I don't think this is a bad thing to do. I have saved some of the patina, however, and will sprinkle it on the car in a few places so it will look like an old new car. Larry Long (ps--similar problems with the NB--front hubs switched, all chassis bolts changed to American standard, lube system holes plugged. Trunnion boxes filled with old grease that had carmelized!! Hard to get out. But the car had a lot of patina when I bought it!) Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service.

[LuckyFloridaLin@aol.com]

Perhaps a patent on patina might be applicable? Restored my TC to new condition so that I might have the memories and pleasure of driving every day along the Gulf of Mexico. Use it or loose it. More damage done by sitting around just looking"Pretty". Tally Ho! and PIP PIP Thom Collins

[Ron Simon]

--- LuckyFloridaLin@aol.com wrote:

> Perhaps a patent on patina might be applicable? > Just a few thoughts on this restoration hullabaloo.

While you can restore your TABC to what ever level you desire , you cannot restore time and place. No matter what you do you can not drive your car at the time it was created or the place it was originally meant to be driven. My current TC was purchased many years ago as a basket case with the body in one place and the bent chassis in another. It took two years to put it all together, overhaul the mechanicals, paint it,etc. If you wish to call this restoring it, so be it. I did it to be able to drive it. I actually enjoy driving a TC. However in this day and age road conditions and traffic make certain things necessary. It didn t originally come with a rear view mirror so I had to put one on ala EXU. Same thing with turn signals. Only one dim tail-stoplight in the back so had to add another one. Then a stoplight on top of the spare tire carrier hidden behind the tire so drivers behind me would stop. Took the TC to England in 1992 during our TCMG G.R.A.B.tour 3 weeks 2,000 miles. Traffic was incredible even on B roads. Every tiny little econobox was faster than our TC s and determined to pass at will. Our club the TCMG usually does a driving event every month going to some place via scenic back roads etc. In order to get to these roads it is necessary to drive on highways and freeways with current traffic. My TC now has a motor bored to 1500cc together with a 4.875 rear end ratio. The reason for this was to be able to cruise the freeways at a reasonable RPM to get to the good roads. We took the TC back to England again during GRAB 98, traffic was even worse speeds were higher. Driving in the wet on M roads even in the slow lane was dangerous. Same with A roads. We remember driving on 2 lane B roads and being passed by Brits while going up hill on blind curves. It felt at times that we were driving mobile chicanes. My feelings are that TC s were meant to be driven, so keep them driving. If show cars are your thing then so be it. There is room in this silly hobby for everyone. Enough said, Ron Simon

> > > > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to > http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ > >

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[David and Joyce Edgar]

>My TC now has a motor bored to 1500cc together with a >4.875 rear end ratio. The reason for this was to be >able to cruise the freeways at a reasonable RPM to get >to the good roads.

I can vouch for Ron Simon keeping up at freeway speed in the TC. He even passes other traffic going up hills. If I want to keep up with him I will have to supercharge or go the 1500 route on my engine. David Edgar TC 5108 El Cajon, California

[Ray]

I am going Flathead Ford....just to make it a "period" mod! ;-> Best, Ray

> >My TC now has a motor bored to 1500cc together with a > >4.875 rear end ratio. The reason for this was to be > >able to cruise the freeways at a reasonable RPM to get > >to the good roads.

. If I want to keep up with

> him I will have to supercharge or go the 1500 route on my engine. >

[Paul Camp]

Ron I drive my TC regularly around English lanes and motorways and like you for safety sake I have fitted extra rear lights also Halogen headlights as I enjoy night driving. I am sorry some of my fellow natives didnt show you the due courtesy on your trips here. I manage to keep up with most of them!! Regards Paul TC3348 MGB

----- Original Message ----- From: "Ron Simon" simon90248@yahoo.com> To: LuckyFloridaLin@aol.com>; Emgeeguy@aol.com>; bharkins@tfb.com>; 100070.740@compuserve.com> Cc: mg-tabc@yahoogroups.com> Sent: Thursday, December 13, 2001 6:52 PM Subject: Re: [mg-tabc] Restoration semantics > > --- LuckyFloridaLin@aol.com wrote: > > Perhaps a patent on patina might be applicable? > > Just a few thoughts on this restoration hullabaloo. > While you can restore your TABC to what ever level you > desire , you cannot restore time and place. No matter > what you do you can not drive your car at the time it > was created or the place it was originally meant to be > driven. > My current TC was purchased many years ago as a basket > case with the body in one place and the bent chassis > in another. It took two years to put it all together, > overhaul the mechanicals, paint it,etc. If you wish to > call this restoring it, so be it. I did it to be able > to drive it. I actually enjoy driving a TC. However in > this day and age road conditions and traffic make > certain things necessary. It didn't originally come > with a rear view mirror so I had to put one on ala > EXU. Same thing with turn signals. Only one dim > tail-stoplight in the back so had to add another one. > Then a stoplight on top of the spare tire carrier > hidden behind the tire so drivers behind me would > stop. > Took the TC to England in 1992 during our TCMG > G.R.A.B.tour 3 weeks 2,000 miles. > Traffic was incredible even on B roads. Every tiny > little econobox was faster than our TC's and > determined to pass at will. > Our club the TCMG usually does a driving event every > month going to some place via scenic back roads etc. > In order to get to these roads it is necessary to > drive on highways and freeways with current traffic. > My TC now has a motor bored to 1500cc together with a > 4.875 rear end ratio. The reason for this was to be > able to cruise the freeways at a reasonable RPM to get > to the good roads. We took the TC back to England > again during GRAB '98, traffic was even worse speeds > were higher. Driving in the wet on M roads even in the > slow lane was dangerous. Same with A roads. We > remember driving on 2 lane B roads and being passed by > Brits while going up hill on blind curves. It felt at > times that we were driving mobile chicanes. > My feelings are that TC's were meant to be driven, so > keep them driving. If show cars are your thing then so > be it. There is room in this silly hobby for everyone. > Enough said, Ron Simon > > > > > > > > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to > > http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ > > > > > > > __________________________________________________ > Do You Yahoo!? > Check out Yahoo! Shopping and Yahoo! Auctions for all of > your unique holiday gifts! Buy at http://shopping.yahoo.com > or bid at http://auctions.yahoo.com > > > > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ > >

[Edward Dunn]

> Message text written by "Bill Harkins" > >Show cars are not restorations - they are travesties. > One man's travesty is another man's pride and joy, perhaps representing > several hundred thousand dollars of effort. I think the Pebble Beach crowd > would disagree with you, IMHO. > Bill Harkins > Fallbrook, CA

So true Bill. Long time Pebble Beach & Hillsborough Concours announcer, Paul Woudenberg drives a Model A Ford. As his daily driver. His wife drives a TC. Their "other car" is a 1929(?) Rolls Royce, for those times when they go out to dinner with another couple. Paul totally embodies the Pebble Beach experience. He has also written several "Buyers Guides" including for early Fords, Lincoln Continental, and Aston-Martin. He's a real, genuine car guy. Does he spend a lot of his time turning wrenches on his cars, I don't know, and I don't care. Sure, most of the Pebble Beach, and other high end concours participants pay others to work on their cars. So what. If a guy loves a type of car, can afford it,and maybe isn't a red-hot mechanic, is he less worthy of owning it? The mentality of, acceptability based on how much you've done on your car yourself is bogus. I didn't rivet together the 737 that I love to fly. Does that make me an imposter as a pilot? Ed Dunn Encinitas CA