Brake Problem

[Davidtasa@aol.com]

Dear Listers, Since TC 3896 is running like a top at the moment, I hope you won't mind a TD question (could easily be a TC question, for that matter) for some suggestions from you experts. When I press the brake pedal and hold it (like on an incline), the pedal very slowly starts to sink to the floorboard. I'm thinking it's probably time to dismantle the master cylinder and replace all the rubber bits (master cylinder repair kit). What do you all recommend? Any other suggestions? History: In the 23 years I've owned the car, I've never done anything to the master cylinder. About 15 years ago or so, I replaced both front wheel cylinders (because of leaking over the winter months) and flushed the entire system installing silicone brake fluid at that time. Everything has worked fine and problem free up til now. David TC 3896

[joecurto@aol.com]

Dave You have answered your own question, it is a bad mastercylinder. It is a brake problem TC's, TD,s TF's and all other cars with Hydraulic brakes would act the same. Rebuild it now as it is a single line system and you are getting the "warning" Joe

[Chip Old]

On Fri, 17 Aug 2001 Davidtasa@aol.com wrote:

> When I press the brake pedal and hold it (like on an incline), the > pedal very slowly starts to sink to the floorboard. > > I'm thinking it's probably time to dismantle the master cylinder and > replace all the rubber bits (master cylinder repair kit). What do you > all recommend? Any other suggestions?

That's a definite symptom of a master cylinder in need of rebuilding, and that is NOT a job you want to put off doing. -- Chip Old 1948 M.G. TC TC6710 XPAG7430 NEMGTR #2271 Cub Hill, Maryland 1962 Triumph TR4 CT3154LO CT3479E fold@bcpl.net

[Tombutlercpa@cs.com]

Sounds like a master cylinder to me. I've not had to rebuild one on a TC as yet but my past efforts on other cars were dismal failures. This seems to be an item that is best purchased rebuilt or new. My experience has been with German cars of post '70 vintage.

[Davidtasa@aol.com]

Dear Listers, A couple of weeks ago I wrote describing a braking problem and got five very nice responses from Blakatgal (TC 8710), Skip Kelsey, Joe Curto, Chip Old and Tom Butler, all of whom confirmed my diagnosis that the master brake cylinder needed to be overhauled. My thanks to you all!! In the mean time I've completed the job and am back on the streets. I wanted to report that after the initial symptoms appeared, the braking ability diminished rapidly - in fact I only test drove the car one more time before feeling so unsafe that undertaking the work was essential. The master (or main) cup was in especially bad shape and I'm surprised it worked as long and as well as it did in that condition! Having thoroughly cleaned the MC and replaced all worn parts certainly gives me more driving confidence and your comments and suggestions gave me confidence in my trouble shooting and repair as well. I feel this was excellent use of the list. Sincere thanks, David Tasa TC 3896

[Steve.Fielder@winzerwurth.co.uk]

OK Guys and Gals, first one for a monday morning, after taking TC4219 for it`s annual MOT test it failed on the rear offside wheel cylinder being siezed. Ordered new bronze wheel cylinders from the Octagon Car Club, duly fitted to both off side and nearside, brakes bled, shoes adjusted and off for a retest. Failed again!! offside rear brake now working but coming up to pressure 3 -5 sconds slower than the near side. Back home, strip everything down, replace offside rear cylinder with another new one (not rebuilt, but brand new) check, adjust etc etc. Off the the MOT station again, still failed on the same fault!!! Back home, strip down again, this time replace brake pipe to union, replace flexible brake hose, check and clean union, reassemble, bleed, adjust etc etc. STILL THE SAME %^*(*(^%% ^? PROBLEM. HELP! I cannot think what the problem could be? All sensible answers gratefully recieved as the car has to be back on the road for an event on the 9 and 10th of Nov. Steve TC4219

[David & Joyce Edgar]

Steve, My first thoughts are it must be a hydraulic problem with the 3-5 second delay. If it was spring strength or weakness it would be less of a delay in my opinion. The shoes could be haning up possibly. Do they move freely? Take the springs off and move them around and check for burrs or lack of lubrication. Have you tried switching cylinders side to side? Doubt if it would change but worth a try. Since you replaced the cylinder first and then replaced the pipe and hose there is a posibility that crud is now in the new cylinder or blocking the inlet passage. A long shot would be to replace the hose from frame to differential. If fluid was restricted there and seeped through, the side with the slightly weaker spring would expand out first and then the other side. A new hose that allows fluid to flow freely would still expand out at different rates with the same springs but the delay would be so small that it wouldn't matter. You could try switching springs side to side too test that theory. Are the front brakes coming on earlier? OK, I'll stop rambling, David Edgar, TC 5108 El Cajon, California At 10:11 AM +0000 10/28/02, Steve.Fielder@winzerwurth.co.uk wrote:

>OK Guys and Gals, > >first one for a monday morning, after taking TC4219 for it`s annual MOT >test it failed on the rear offside wheel cylinder being siezed. Ordered new >bronze wheel cylinders from the Octagon Car Club, duly fitted to both off >side and nearside, brakes bled, shoes adjusted and off for a retest. >Failed again!! offside rear brake now working but coming up to pressure 3 >-5 sconds slower than the near side. Back home, strip everything down, >replace offside rear cylinder with another new one (not rebuilt, but brand >new) check, adjust etc etc. Off the the MOT station again, still failed on >the same fault!!! Back home, strip down again, this time replace brake pipe >to union, replace flexible brake hose, check and clean union, reassemble, >bleed, adjust etc etc. > >STILL THE SAME %^*(*(^%% ^? PROBLEM. > >HELP! >I cannot think what the problem could be? All sensible answers gratefully >recieved as the car has to be back on the road for an event on the 9 and >10th of Nov. > >Steve >TC4219

[Jennifer and Hugh Pite]

Hi Steve, what do you mean by "coming up to pressure"? Surely there is not a fluid pressure measurement made at all brake cylinders. If the offside rear brake is slow acting and the nearside is not then there must be a constriction in the brake line between the "T" on the rear axle and the rear cylinder, in the bango fitting or in the brake cylinder itself. If that is the case then, as a consequence, this brake will be slow to retract. Since this problem really started with a new brake cylinder, I would check that the drilling which the brake fluid passes through is not too small or blocked by a metal chip left over from the machining. Hugh Pite (58) ----- Original side and nearside, brakes bled, shoes adjusted and off for a retest. Failed again!! offside rear brake now working but coming up to pressure 3 -5 sconds slower than the near side. Steve TC4219

[Jeff & Merryl Redman]

G'day Steve, Sorry to be late... just come up to speed with the latest 'mail' Brake 'delay', as you've described. Have a look at the rear flexible hose - maybe its become too 'flexible' and is acting as an involuntary bellows i.e. 'balooning' under pressure which could equate to the delay in action of the rear stoppers. This happened to the clutch flexible hose on madam's 'GTV8 which mainfested itself as 'lost motion'. Worth a look before suiciding. SILICON BRAKE FLUID ...2-bob's worth on another thread: Been running both T's on this stuff for years with no ill-effects. Both were set up from rebuild with new 'totally-clean' systems. Each car has vastly different use : TA sits grossly under-used (it's not fun to drive - a.k.a "The Stone!) (reasons obvious) TC used in competition - where silicon fluid is viewed with suspicion by some. Never a moments trouble in events ranging throughout the year from 3 degreesC to 95C+... such being the vagaries of the Oz seasons. FWIW. Jeff TA2828 TC3306 'GTV8 232

----- Original Message ----- From: Steve.Fielder@winzerwurth.co.uk> To: mg-tabc@yahoogroups.com> Sent: Monday, October 28, 2002 9:11 PM Subject: [mg-tabc] Brake Problem OK Guys and Gals, first one for a monday morning, after taking TC4219 for it`s annual MOT test it failed on the rear offside wheel cylinder being siezed. Ordered new bronze wheel cylinders from the Octagon Car Club, duly fitted to both off side and nearside, brakes bled, shoes adjusted and off for a retest. Failed again!! offside rear brake now working but coming up to pressure 3 -5 sconds slower than the near side. Back home, strip everything down, replace offside rear cylinder with another new one (not rebuilt, but brand new) check, adjust etc etc. Off the the MOT station again, still failed on the same fault!!! Back home, strip down again, this time replace brake pipe to union, replace flexible brake hose, check and clean union, reassemble, bleed, adjust etc etc. STILL THE SAME %^*(*(^%% ^? PROBLEM. HELP! I cannot think what the problem could be? All sensible answers gratefully recieved as the car has to be back on the road for an event on the 9 and 10th of Nov. Steve TC4219 Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/