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Front wheel bearings

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Re: Front Wheel Bearings

Posted: Fri Apr 11, 2014 10:28 am
by Rothgene
Right on Bob, now explain "PROPERLY SHIMMED" and that should leave no doubts on the subject.   Gene Roth 
----- Original Message ----- [b]From:[/b] grunau.garage@sympatico.ca [b]To:[/b] joecurto@aol.com ; bdavispics@yahoo.com ; mg-tabc@yahoogroups.com [b]Sent:[/b] Friday, April 11, 2014 7:21 AM [b]Subject:[/b] RE: [mg-tabc] Re: Front Wheel Bearings   Hi Joe et All, Sorry, WRONG, you use a TIGHT stub axle nut and spacers properly shimmed no matter if using ball bearings or tapered roller bearings on a MMM MG or TA/TB/TC. Same as MGB which uses tapered roller bearings. .   Yes for am American car, different system but NOT suitable for an MG. Bob ,. [quote] -----Original Message----- [b]From:[/b] mg-tabc@yahoogroups.com [mailto:mg-tabc@yahoogroups.com][b]On Behalf Of [/b]Joe Curto [b]Sent:[/b] Thursday, April 10, 2014 5:49 PM [b]To:[/b] bdavispics@yahoo.com; mg-tabc@yahoogroups.com [b]Subject:[/b] Re: [mg-tabc] Re: Front Wheel Bearings  

I did not get all of this from the beginning  but if you are fitting ball bearings with spacer between them the nut is tight , if you are using tapered roller bearings like an American car and  is set up without spacers than that is the tighten /loosen procedure , if you are doing like an MGB with tapered roller bearings & shims that is another procedure again Joe Curto 718-762-7878 www.joecurto.com   Thanks Steve, Bob, Roger and all for the good advice. I've tightened the nuts. Torquing to 80 ft-lbs still allowed the hub to turn. They were magnafluxed back in the Fall but I'll check them again after a few miles to make sure the nuts are still very tight!!! Apparently the article saying to torque the nut to about 10 ft-lbs, back off one flat and then loosen till the pin fits is not such good advice after all. That ends up hardly (if any) more than finger tight. Regards, Bill

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Re: Front Wheel Bearings

Posted: Fri Apr 11, 2014 10:51 am
by Raymond Nierlich
My two cents worth Please remember to check the little spacer that sits behind the inner bearing, (ball or tapered roller). These are shallow and I have personal experience with them being dished concave and also cracked in two. Will definitely upset the bearing torque setting, and perhaps leading to the brake drum rubbing the backing plate as well as other bad things. Ray Nierlich On Friday, April 11, 2014 10:34 AM, Rothgene rothgene@msn.com> wrote:   Right on Bob, now explain "PROPERLY SHIMMED" and that should leave no doubts on the subject.   Gene Roth 
----- Original Message ----- [b]From:[/b] grunau.garage@sympatico.ca [b]To:[/b] joecurto@aol.com ; bdavispics@yahoo.com ; mg-tabc@yahoogroups.com [b]Sent:[/b] Friday, April 11, 2014 7:21 AM [b]Subject:[/b] RE: [mg-tabc] Re: Front Wheel Bearings   Hi Joe et All, Sorry, WRONG, you use a TIGHT stub axle nut and spacers properly shimmed no matter if using ball bearings or tapered roller bearings on a MMM MG or TA/TB/TC. Same as MGB which uses tapered roller bearings. .   Yes for am American car, different system but NOT suitable for an MG. Bob ,. [quote] -----Original Message----- [b]From:[/b] mg-tabc@yahoogroups.com [mailto:mg-tabc@yahoogroups.com][b]On Behalf Of [/b]Joe Curto [b]Sent:[/b] Thursday, April 10, 2014 5:49 PM [b]To:[/b] bdavispics@yahoo.com; mg-tabc@yahoogroups.com [b]Subject:[/b] Re: [mg-tabc] Re: Front Wheel Bearings   I did not get all of this from the beginning  but if you are fitting ball bearings with spacer between them the nut is tight , if you are using tapered roller bearings like an American car and  is set up without spacers than that is the tighten /loosen procedure , if you are doing like an MGB with tapered roller bearings & shims that is another procedure again Joe Curto 718-762-7878 www.joecurto.com   Thanks Steve, Bob, Roger and all for the good advice. I've tightened the nuts. Torquing to 80 ft-lbs still allowed the hub to turn. They were magnafluxed back in the Fall but I'll check them again after a few miles to make sure the nuts are still very tight!!! Apparently the article saying to torque the nut to about 10 ft-lbs, back off one flat and then loosen till the pin fits is not such good advice after all. That ends up hardly (if any) more than finger tight. Regards, Bill
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Re: Front Wheel Bearings

Posted: Fri Apr 11, 2014 9:19 pm
by Rick Waters
Isn't this the washer/spacer that is machined to fit over the radius of the stub axle? I wonder if damaged spacers are the result of some previous installation done backwards? -Rick, TC 7881, ready for a drive tomorrow! On 2014-04-11, 10:51 AM, Raymond Nierlich wrote:
My two cents worth Please remember to check the little spacer that sits behind the inner bearing, (ball or tapered roller). These are shallow and I have personal experience with them being dished concave and also cracked in two. Will definitely upset the bearing torque setting, and perhaps leading to the brake drum rubbing the backing plate as well as other bad things. Ray Nierlich On Friday, April 11, 2014 10:34 AM, Rothgene rothgene@msn.com wrote: Right on Bob, now explain "PROPERLY SHIMMED" and that should leave no doubts on the subject. Gene Roth ----- Original Message ----- [b]From:[/b] grunau.garage@sympatico.ca [b]To:[/b] joecurto@aol.com ; bdavispics@yahoo.com ; mg-tabc@yahoogroups.com [b]Sent:[/b] Friday, April 11, 2014 7:21 AM [b]Subject:[/b] RE: [mg-tabc] Re: Front Wheel Bearings Hi Joe et All, Sorry, WRONG, you use a TIGHT stub axle nut and spacers properly shimmed no matter if using ball bearings or tapered roller bearings on a MMM MG or TA/TB/TC. Same as MGB which uses tapered roller bearings. . Yes for am American car, different system but NOT suitable for an MG. Bob ,. [quote] -----Original Message----- [b]From:[/b] mg-tabc@yahoogroups.com [mg-tabc@yahoogroups.com][b]On Behalf Of [/b]Joe Curto [b]Sent:[/b] Thursday, April 10, 2014 5:49 PM [b]To:[/b] bdavispics@yahoo.com; mg-tabc@yahoogroups.com [b]Subject:[/b] Re: [mg-tabc] Re: Front Wheel Bearings I did not get all of this from the beginning but if you are fitting ball bearings with spacer between them the nut is tight , if you are using tapered roller bearings like an American car and is set up without spacers than that is the tighten /loosen procedure , if you are doing like an MGB with tapered roller bearings & shims that is another procedure again Joe Curto 718-762-7878 www.joecurto.com Thanks Steve, Bob, Roger and all for the good advice. I've tightened the nuts. Torquing to 80 ft-lbs still allowed the hub to turn. They were magnafluxed back in the Fall but I'll check them again after a few miles to make sure the nuts are still very tight!!! Apparently the article saying to torque the nut to about 10 ft-lbs, back off one flat and then loosen till the pin fits is not such good advice after all. That ends up hardly (if any) more than finger tight. Regards, Bill
[/quote]

Re: Front Wheel Bearings

Posted: Sat Apr 12, 2014 6:35 am
by Bob Grunau
Hi Gene, "Properly shimmed " means adding various thickness of shims to lengthen the bearing spacer to allow the hub to just spin easily with no slop and a tight stub axle nut. Usually shimming is only required if changing to superior tapered roller bearings.   I should point out that if using tapered rollers bearings ( which I recommend and use ) the hub must be rotated as you tighten the stub axle nut. This allows the tapered rollers to "seat " properly. When done, the hub should just spin freely with no free play.   Also, the TC shims required are 20 mm bore ( 0.790" ) , not easily found. MGB shims are  3/4" ( 0.750" ) so need to be opened up on the ID to suit the TC stub axle outer end.   Bob, Canada
[quote] Right on Bob, now explain "PROPERLY SHIMMED" and that should leave no doubts on the subject.   Gene Roth  Hi Joe et All, Sorry, WRONG, you use a TIGHT stub axle nut and spacers properly shimmed no matter if using ball bearings or tapered roller bearings on a MMM MG or TA/TB/TC. Same as MGB which uses tapered roller bearings. .   Yes for am American car, different system but NOT suitable for an MG. Bob ,.  

I did not get all of this from the beginning  but if you are fitting ball bearings with spacer between them the nut is tight , if you are using tapered roller bearings like an American car and  is set up without spacers than that is the tighten /loosen procedure , if you are doing like an MGB with tapered roller bearings & shims that is another procedure again Joe Curto 718-762-7878 www.joecurto.com Thanks Steve, Bob, Roger and all for the good advice. I've tightened the nuts. Torquing to 80 ft-lbs still allowed the hub to turn. They were magnafluxed back in the Fall but I'll check them again after a few miles to make sure the nuts are still very tight!!! Apparently the article saying to torque the nut to about 10 ft-lbs, back off one flat and then loosen till the pin fits is not such good advice after all. That ends up hardly (if any) more than finger tight. Regards, Bill

[/quote]

Re: Front Wheel Bearings

Posted: Sat Apr 12, 2014 11:59 am
by Clifford J. Lockrow
Bob... Where couLd you find these shims??? WOULD A BEARING SUPPLY HOUSE HAVE THEM? & WOULD YOU REPEAT THE HOLE SIZE AGAIN I SEEM TO HAVE TRASHED IT.  i DID T5HIS A COUPLE OF YEARS AGTO BUT MADE MY OWN SHIMS AND NOW WANT TO CHECK IT.....T HANX   J
----- Original Message ----- [b]From:[/b] grunau.garage@sympatico.ca [b]To:[/b] rothgene@msn.com ; joecurto@aol.com ; bdavispics@yahoo.com ; mg-tabc@yahoogroups.com [b]Sent:[/b] Saturday, April 12, 2014 9:37 AM [b]Subject:[/b] RE: [mg-tabc] Re: Front Wheel Bearings   Hi Gene, "Properly shimmed " means adding various thickness of shims to lengthen the bearing spacer to allow the hub to just spin easily with no slop and a tight stub axle nut. Usually shimming is only required if changing to superior tapered roller bearings.   I should point out that if using tapered rollers bearings ( which I recommend and use ) the hub must be rotated as you tighten the stub axle nut. This allows the tapered rollers to "seat " properly. When done, the hub should just spin freely with no free play.   Also, the TC shims required are 20 mm bore ( 0.790" ) , not easily found. MGB shims are  3/4" ( 0.750" ) so need to be opened up on the ID to suit the TC stub axle outer end.   Bob, Canada [quote] Right on Bob, now explain "PROPERLY SHIMMED" and that should leave no doubts on the subject.   Gene Roth 

Hi Joe et All, Sorry, WRONG, you use a TIGHT stub axle nut and spacers properly shimmed no matter if using ball bearings or tapered roller bearings on a MMM MG or TA/TB/TC. Same as MGB which uses tapered roller bearings. .   Yes for am American car, different system but NOT suitable for an MG. Bob ,.  

I did not get all of this from the beginning  but if you are fitting ball bearings with spacer between them the nut is tight , if you are using tapered roller bearings like an American car and  is set up without spacers than that is the tighten /loosen procedure , if you are doing like an MGB with tapered roller bearings & shims that is another procedure again Joe Curto 718-762-7878 www.joecurto.com Thanks Steve, Bob, Roger and all for the good advice. I've tightened the nuts. Torquing to 80 ft-lbs still allowed the hub to turn. They were magnafluxed back in the Fall but I'll check them again after a few miles to make sure the nuts are still very tight!!! Apparently the article saying to torque the nut to about 10 ft-lbs, back off one flat and then loosen till the pin fits is not such good advice after all. That ends up hardly (if any) more than finger tight. Regards, Bill

[/quote]

Re: Front Wheel Bearings

Posted: Sat Apr 12, 2014 2:01 pm
by Roger Furneaux
hi Cliff - the outer spindle diameter is 20mm, and it is easier to put the shims there (inner diam. is 25mm).I have the 20mm shims here in England, plus both sorts of bearings. Tech tip CH305 on Doug's fromtheframeup  website (based on my instructions) tells all. RogerTC0978
On 12 April 2014 19:57, Clifford J. Lockrow JayLock@localnet.com> wrote: [u][/u] Bob... Where couLd you find these shims??? WOULD A BEARING SUPPLY HOUSE HAVE THEM? & WOULD YOU REPEAT THE HOLE SIZE AGAIN I SEEM TO HAVE TRASHED IT.  i DID T5HIS A COUPLE OF YEARS AGTO BUT MADE MY OWN SHIMS AND NOW WANT TO CHECK IT.....T HANX   J ----- Original Message ----- [b]From:[/b] grunau.garage@sympatico.ca [b]To:[/b] rothgene@msn.com ; joecurto@aol.com ; bdavispics@yahoo.com ; mg-tabc@yahoogroups.com [b]Sent:[/b] Saturday, April 12, 2014 9:37 AM [b]Subject:[/b] RE: [mg-tabc] Re: Front Wheel Bearings   Hi Gene, "Properly shimmed " means adding various thickness of shims to lengthen the bearing spacer to allow the hub to just spin easily with no slop and a tight stub axle nut. Usually shimming is only required if changing to superior tapered roller bearings.   I should point out that if using tapered rollers bearings ( which I recommend and use ) the hub must be rotated as you tighten the stub axle nut. This allows the tapered rollers to "seat " properly. When done, the hub should just spin freely with no free play.   Also, the TC shims required are 20 mm bore ( 0.790" ) , not easily found. MGB shims are  3/4" ( 0.750" ) so need to be opened up on the ID to suit the TC stub axle outer end.   Bob, Canada [quote] Right on Bob, now explain "PROPERLY SHIMMED" and that should leave no doubts on the subject.   Gene Roth  Hi Joe et All, Sorry, WRONG, you use a TIGHT stub axle nut and spacers properly shimmed no matter if using ball bearings or tapered roller bearings on a MMM MG or TA/TB/TC. Same as MGB which uses tapered roller bearings. .   Yes for am American car, different system but NOT suitable for an MG. Bob ,.   I did not get all of this from the beginning  but if you are fitting ball bearings with spacer between them the nut is tight , if you are using tapered roller bearings like an American car and  is set up without spacers than that is the tighten /loosen procedure , if you are doing like an MGB with tapered roller bearings & shims that is another procedure again Joe Curto 718-762-7878 www.joecurto.com Thanks Steve, Bob, Roger and all for the good advice. I've tightened the nuts. Torquing to 80 ft-lbs still allowed the hub to turn. They were magnafluxed back in the Fall but I'll check them again after a few miles to make sure the nuts are still very tight!!! Apparently the article saying to torque the nut to about 10 ft-lbs, back off one flat and then loosen till the pin fits is not such good advice after all. That ends up hardly (if any) more than finger tight. Regards, Bill
[/quote]

Re: Front Wheel Bearings

Posted: Sat Apr 12, 2014 3:04 pm
by Bob Grunau
Jay 20 mm bore shims are not easy to find here in Canada, Maybe USA?  Strange North America has gone metric. I buy 3/4" bore shims and have made holder for my lathe to bore them to 0.790" ( 20 MM ) . When you come for a visit, we can arrange some  :-) Bob, Canada
[quote] Bob... Where couLd you find these shims??? WOULD A BEARING SUPPLY HOUSE HAVE THEM? & WOULD YOU REPEAT THE HOLE SIZE AGAIN I SEEM TO HAVE TRASHED IT.  i DID T5HIS A COUPLE OF YEARS AGTO BUT MADE MY OWN SHIMS AND NOW WANT TO CHECK IT.....T HANX   J ----- Original Message ----- Hi Gene, "Properly shimmed " means adding various thickness of shims to lengthen the bearing spacer to allow the hub to just spin easily with no slop and a tight stub axle nut. Usually shimming is only required if changing to superior tapered roller bearings.   I should point out that if using tapered rollers bearings ( which I recommend and use ) the hub must be rotated as you tighten the stub axle nut. This allows the tapered rollers to "seat " properly. When done, the hub should just spin freely with no free play.   Also, the TC shims required are 20 mm bore ( 0.790" ) , not easily found. MGB shims are  3/4" ( 0.750" ) so need to be opened up on the ID to suit the TC stub axle outer end.   Bob, Canada  
[/quote]

Re: Front Wheel Bearings

Posted: Sun Apr 13, 2014 4:39 am
by MG Leckstein
Bob, should someone in North America produce a batch? I would be interested in having a few on hand. Both for the TC and for the PA.

 

Mike

 

[b]From:[/b] mg-tabc@yahoogroups.com [mailto:mg-tabc@yahoogroups.com] [b]On Behalf Of [/b]BOB GRUNAU [b]Sent:[/b] Saturday, April 12, 2014 6:06 PM [b]To:[/b] Clifford J. Lockrow; bdavispics@yahoo.com; mg-tabc@yahoogroups.com [b]Subject:[/b] RE: [mg-tabc] Re: Front Wheel Bearings

 

Jay

20 mm bore shims are not easy to find here in Canada, Maybe USA?  Strange North America has gone metric.

I buy 3/4" bore shims and have made holder for my lathe to bore them to 0.790" ( 20 MM ) . When you come for a visit,

we can arrange some  :-)

Bob, Canada

Bob... Where couLd you find these shims??? WOULD A BEARING SUPPLY HOUSE HAVE THEM? & WOULD YOU REPEAT THE HOLE SIZE AGAIN I SEEM TO HAVE TRASHED IT.  i DID T5HIS A COUPLE OF YEARS AGTO BUT MADE MY OWN SHIMS AND NOW WANT TO CHECK IT.....T HANX   J

----- Original Message -----

Hi Gene,

"Properly shimmed " means adding various thickness of shims to lengthen the bearing spacer to allow the hub to just spin easily with no slop and a tight stub axle nut. Usually shimming is only required if changing to superior tapered roller bearings.

 

I should point out that if using tapered rollers bearings ( which I recommend and use ) the hub must be rotated as you tighten the stub axle nut. This allows the tapered rollers to "seat " properly. When done, the hub should just spin freely with no free play.

 

Also, the TC shims required are 20 mm bore ( 0.790" ) , not easily found. MGB shims are  3/4" ( 0.750" ) so need to be opened up on the ID to suit the TC stub axle outer end.

 

Bob, Canada

 

Front Wheel Bearings

Posted: Sun Apr 13, 2014 3:42 pm
by Doug Pelton
To Mike & All,

 

I carry the 20mm shim sets as a stock item and are also included with my front axle tapered roller bearing conversion set. Shim set item # is CH308, 1 set does both front stub axles. Contact me off list to order.

 

Regards,

 

[b][i]Doug Pelton[/i][/b]

FROM THE FRAME UP, LLC

[u]www.FromTheFrameUp.com[/u]

480-588-8185

 

[b]Please note: [/b]For fastest service for orders, email to:  [u]order@FromTheFrameUp.com[/u]

 

[b]From:[/b] mg-tabc@yahoogroups.com [mailto:mg-tabc@yahoogroups.com] [b]On Behalf Of [/b]MG Leckstein [b]Sent:[/b] Sunday, April 13, 2014 4:39 AM [b]To:[/b] 'BOB GRUNAU'; 'Clifford J. Lockrow'; bdavispics@yahoo.com; mg-tabc@yahoogroups.com [b]Subject:[/b] RE: [mg-tabc] Re: Front Wheel Bearings

 

 

Bob, should someone in North America produce a batch?  I would be interested in having a few on hand. Both for the TC and for  the PA.

 

Mike

 

[b]From:[/b] mg-tabc@yahoogroups.com [mg-tabc@yahoogroups.com] [b]On Behalf Of [/b]BOB GRUNAU [b]Sent:[/b] Saturday, April 12, 2014 6:06 PM [b]To:[/b] Clifford J. Lockrow; bdavispics@yahoo.com; mg-tabc@yahoogroups.com [b]Subject:[/b] RE: [mg-tabc] Re: Front Wheel Bearings

 

Jay

20 mm bore shims are not easy to find here in Canada, Maybe USA?  Strange North America has gone metric.

I buy 3/4" bore shims and have made holder for my lathe to bore them to 0.790" ( 20 MM ) . When you come for a visit,

we can arrange some  :-)

Bob, Canada

Bob... Where couLd you find these shims??? WOULD A BEARING SUPPLY HOUSE HAVE THEM? & WOULD YOU REPEAT THE HOLE SIZE AGAIN I SEEM TO HAVE TRASHED IT.  i DID T5HIS A COUPLE OF YEARS AGTO BUT MADE MY OWN SHIMS AND NOW WANT TO CHECK IT.....T HANX   J

----- Original Message -----

Hi Gene,

"Properly shimmed " means adding various thickness of shims to lengthen the bearing spacer to allow the hub to just spin easily with no slop and a tight stub axle nut. Usually shimming is only required if changing to superior tapered roller bearings.

 

I should point out that if using tapered rollers bearings ( which I recommend and use ) the hub must be rotated as you tighten the stub axle nut. This allows the tapered rollers to "seat " properly. When done, the hub should just spin freely with no free play.

 

Also, the TC shims required are 20 mm bore ( 0.790" ) , not easily found. MGB shims are  3/4" ( 0.750" ) so need to be opened up on the ID to suit the TC stub axle outer end.

 

Bob, Canada

 

Re: Front Wheel Bearings

Posted: Sat Apr 19, 2014 7:15 pm
by phil smith
How tight is tight for that nut (ball bearings, not tapered rollers, on my car)?Blower doesn't give an  answer, neither does the TC handbook, just to tighten it up and cotter it.. And, what's the group wisdom on periodically prophylactically having stub axles and pitman arms crack-tested?   Thanks. Phil [b]From:[/b] BOB GRUNAU grunau.garage@sympatico.ca> [b]To:[/b] Clifford J. Lockrow JayLock@localnet.com>; bdavispics@yahoo.com; mg-tabc@yahoogroups.com [b]Sent:[/b] Saturday, April 12, 2014 6:06 PM [b]Subject:[/b] RE: [mg-tabc] Re: Front Wheel Bearings   Jay 20 mm bore shims are not easy to find here in Canada, Maybe USA?  Strange North America has gone metric. I buy 3/4" bore shims and have made holder for my lathe to bore them to 0.790" ( 20 MM ) . When you come for a visit, we can arrange some  :-) Bob, Canada
[quote] Bob... Where couLd you find these shims??? WOULD A BEARING SUPPLY HOUSE HAVE THEM? & WOULD YOU REPEAT THE HOLE SIZE AGAIN I SEEM TO HAVE TRASHED IT.  i DID T5HIS A COUPLE OF YEARS AGTO BUT MADE MY OWN SHIMS AND NOW WANT TO CHECK IT.....T HANX   J ----- Original Message ----- Hi Gene, "Properly shimmed " means adding various thickness of shims to lengthen the bearing spacer to allow the hub to just spin easily with no slop and a tight stub axle nut. Usually shimming is only required if changing to superior tapered roller bearings.   I should point out that if using tapered rollers bearings ( which I recommend and use ) the hub must be rotated as you tighten the stub axle nut. This allows the tapered rollers to "seat " properly. When done, the hub should just spin freely with no free play.   Also, the TC shims required are 20 mm bore ( 0.790" ) , not easily found. MGB shims are  3/4" ( 0.750" ) so need to be opened up on the ID to suit the TC stub axle outer end.   Bob, Canada  
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