Re: Seat Belts

[Mark & Sheila Masters]

Hi all,
I have lap diagonal in my TC. I am certain my mounting points are substantial enough to at least afford me some protection.
Yes I may suffer a crushed shoulder but having been involved in a major crash in my Mini in pre seat belts days suffering two broken ankles, almost removing my nose through using it to break the windscreen and now suffering Arthritis in my neck and lower back from crushed vertebra, I make sure I always use the seat belts. 
Whether or not some experts opine that they will not make a significant difference should the worst happen I do not really care because I am certain in my mind that I have much more to gain by wearing them than not. 
In short, if using seat belts makes you more comfortable then use them.
If originality is all important ranking above family members either traveling in the car or the ones left behind when you have dropped off the perch as the result of injuries suffered that could have been minimised, then leave them out. 
Its your decision but to me its a no brainer.
CheersMarkNZ 

On 8May, 2018, at 11:04, Murray G Arundell arundell@ghs.com.au [mg-tabc] wrote:
Tim,
I suspect that Australian crash statistics are similar to those in the US.  Although I also note that a recent article I read on the subject stated that the most common fatal accident outside of the metropolitan areas of Australia is a single vehicle accident where a car simply veers off the road and strikes a stationary object.  Simply put this means that the driver has lost control and the car leaves the road.  The most common cause of this is driver fatigue.  Understandable if you know the geography of Australia.  Roo strikes happen regularly and at speed this can prove fatal to the driver as well as the roo.
Cheers 
Murray Arundelle arundell@ghs.com.au


On 4 May 2018, at 5:31 am, Timothy Burchfield tburchfi@gmail.com [mg-tabc] wrote:

Roll overs are very rare here in the US.  According to the NHTSA the most common type of accident is the rear end collision and the most common speed is about 10 miles an hour.  So a lap and shoulder belt harness protect you in the majority of accidents you are likely to have in the USA.  In a T Series car any other type of accident or at speeds greater than 20 MPH nothing short of a roll bar and full harness is likely to save you. Again, that is in the US.  For all I know running into a kangaroo might be the most common accident down under. 
Cheers
Tim

[Murray G Arundell]

Many thanks for the many and varied responses to my question regarding seat belts in TCs.  For now I ll continue without belts as I am not convinced that in the event of a major accident I ll be any better off with belts or without.  Lets face it, if a TC and a Road Train come together its only going to end badly, very badly no matter what.
Murray Arundell
e arundell@ghs.com.au

 

[Ed Van hoose]

Attachments :

1. [url=file:///C:\Users\Steve\AppData\Local\PG Offline 4\Attachments\\Send.url]Send.url[/url]

 
Sent: Monday, May 7, 2018 9:21 PM
Subject: Fw: seat belts






hello all,i have been following the seat belt discussion with interest.  i installed lap belts in grace, tc3783, because the grankids mother insisted.  i rarely wear them.  however, i have decided that should some blackguard in a fit of picque or inattention choose to ram into us, i shall charge him with assault and battery.  i was out driving with my friend and he hit her.
ed van hoose

[Tweed]

I'm with Mark and am in the process of fitting belts in 0632, not because I think they will offer much in the way of protection in anything other than running into the back of something at walking pace,  but because Liz will 'feel' more comfortable wearing one.  Also there is no way I will be allowed to take my grandson out for a spin now he's in a 'booster seat' without one ... not that I would anyway. As two very good friends, Dominic Crawley and Malcolm Scanlan have pointed out, there is the danger/possibility of spinal injury from the 'diagonal across the shoulder inertia type' because there is no 'B' post ... but I have a cunning plan that might help that situation.  I will reveal all if it works out,  if it doesn't I'll keep shtoom!  
The only advantage I can see of an aircraft lap type is she wouldn't have to 'hang on to the panic handle for dear life' as she puts it.  I did suggest a strip of velcro,  but for some reason that idea went down like a lead balloon! 
Tweed TC 0632 Cambridge UK        

On Tuesday, 8 May 2018, 00:31:45 BST, Mark & Sheila Masters rmmasters@xtra.co.nz [mg-tabc] wrote:

 
Hi all,
I have lap diagonal in my TC. I am certain my mounting points are substantial enough to at least afford me some protection.
Yes I may suffer a crushed shoulder but having been involved in a major crash in my Mini in pre seat belts days suffering two broken ankles, almost removing my nose through using it to break the windscreen and now suffering Arthritis in my neck and lower back from crushed vertebra, I make sure I always use the seat belts. 
Whether or not some experts opine that they will not make a significant difference should the worst happen I do not really care because I am certain in my mind that I have much more to gain by wearing them than not. 
In short, if using seat belts makes you more comfortable then use them.
If originality is all important ranking above family members either traveling in the car or the ones left behind when you have dropped off the perch as the result of injuries suffered that could have been minimised, then leave them out. 
Its your decision but to me its a no brainer.
CheersMarkNZ 
On 8May, 2018, at 11:04, Murray G Arundell arundell@ghs.com.au [mg-tabc] wrote:
Tim,
I suspect that Australian crash statistics are similar to those in the US.  Although I also note that a recent article I read on the subject stated that the most common fatal accident outside of the metropolitan areas of Australia is a single vehicle accident where a car simply veers off the road and strikes a stationary object.  Simply put this means that the driver has lost control and the car leaves the road.  The most common cause of this is driver fatigue.  Understandable if you know the geography of Australia.  Roo strikes happen regularly and at speed this can prove fatal to the driver as well as the roo.
Cheers 
Murray Arundelle arundell@ghs.com.au


On 4 May 2018, at 5:31 am, Timothy Burchfield tburchfi@gmail.com [mg-tabc] wrote:

Roll overs are very rare here in the US.  According to the NHTSA the most common type of accident is the rear end collision and the most common speed is about 10 miles an hour.  So a lap and shoulder belt harness protect you in the majority of accidents you are likely to have in the USA.  In a T Series car any other type of accident or at speeds greater than 20 MPH nothing short of a roll bar and full harness is likely to save you. Again, that is in the US.  For all I know running into a kangaroo might be the most common accident down under. 
Cheers
Tim

[Bill Hyatt]

Murray,  Might be better if Safety Police & insurance companies were not reminded that many vintage vehicles are not fitted with safety belts, airbags, etc., we might get banned from road!On the plus side perhaps our insurance rates might go down if belts were installed. Any actuaries in the Group?  With the potential of getting a more severe injury in an accident if an injured plaintiff was not wearing seatbelts, or had turned off airbag activation key litigious solicitors have become very adept at mitigating personal injury damage cost judgments against unsecured defendants. Occurs even in single car accidents where insurance companies fight paying for full personal injury coverage, claiming injuries would have been reduced had a safety belt had been worn & occupants must share some responsibility for injuries sustained.  Bill TC 4926Odessa, Fl  From: mg-tabc@yahoogroups.com On Behalf Of Murray G Arundell arundell@ghs.com.au [mg-tabc]
Sent: Monday, May 07, 2018 8:38 PM
To: Yahoogroups
Subject: [mg-tabc] Seat Belts    Many thanks for the many and varied responses to my question regarding seat belts in TCs.  For now I ll continue without belts as I am not convinced that in the event of a major accident I ll be any better off with belts or without.  Lets face it, if a TC and a Road Train come together its only going to end badly, very badly no matter what.  Murray Arundell
e arundell@ghs.com.au 

[Graham Knight]

Bill, Given the nature of our cars I think we're already on that hook - belts or no belts. Graham

On 8 May 2018 2:52:26 p.m. "'Bill Hyatt' usaj24@earthlink.net [mg-tabc]" wrote: Murray,  Might be better if Safety Police & insurance companies were not reminded that many vintage vehicles are not fitted with safety belts, airbags, etc., we might get banned from road!On the plus side perhaps our insurance rates might go down if belts were installed. Any actuaries in the Group?  With the potential of getting a more severe injury in an accident if an injured plaintiff was not wearing seatbelts, or had turned off airbag activation key litigious solicitors have become very adept at mitigating personal injury damage cost judgments against unsecured defendants. Occurs even in single car accidents where insurance companies fight paying for full personal injury coverage, claiming injuries would have been reduced had a safety belt had been worn & occupants must share some responsibility for injuries sustained.  Bill TC 4926Odessa, Fl  From: mg-tabc@yahoogroups.com On Behalf Of Murray G Arundell arundell@ghs.com.au [mg-tabc]
Sent: Monday, May 07, 2018 8:38 PM
To: Yahoogroups
Subject: [mg-tabc] Seat Belts    Many thanks for the many and varied responses to my question regarding seat belts in TCs.  For now I ll continue without belts as I am not convinced that in the event of a major accident I ll be any better off with belts or without.  Lets face it, if a TC and a Road Train come together its only going to end badly, very badly no matter what.  Murray Arundell
e arundell@ghs.com.au 

[Malcolm Scanlan]

Greetings Tweed, I think we are all now excitedly watching this space with the awed anticipation of a crowd watching Punxsutawney Phil emerging from his burrow on Groundhog Day.
Good luck with your project as many of us are in the same situation. Please take lots of detailed pictures and if it works think of a good name to market it.
Personally I do not know how a lap belt will help the driver not be skewered by the steering column in the event of a collision.
L & K fly from Quebec over here in August and the grand-kids are now old enough to be interested in a ride.   Been down the Velcro road with the same response from Geraldine!
Malcolm TC 6944 White Rock



From: mg-tabc@yahoogroups.com on behalf of Tweed lizandtweed@yahoo.co.uk [mg-tabc]
Sent: May 8, 2018 1:06 AM
To: Murray G Arundell; Mark & Sheila Masters
Cc: Timothy Burchfield; MG T-Series List
Subject: Re: [mg-tabc] Seat Belts    
I'm with Mark and am in the process of fitting belts in 0632, not because I think they will offer much in the way of protection in anything other than running into the back of something at walking pace,  but because Liz will 'feel' more comfortable wearing one.  Also there is no way I will be allowed to take my grandson out for a spin now he's in a 'booster seat' without one ... not that I would anyway.  As two very good friends, Dominic Crawley and Malcolm Scanlan have pointed out, there is the danger/possibility of spinal injury from the 'diagonal across the shoulder inertia type' because there is no 'B' post ... but I have a cunning plan that might help that situation.  I will reveal all if it works out,  if it doesn't I'll keep shtoom!  
The only advantage I can see of an aircraft lap type is she wouldn't have to 'hang on to the panic handle for dear life' as she puts it.  I did suggest a strip of velcro,  but for some reason that idea went down like a lead balloon! 
Tweed  TC 0632  Cambridge UK         

On Tuesday, 8 May 2018, 00:31:45 BST, Mark & Sheila Masters rmmasters@xtra.co.nz [mg-tabc] wrote:

 
Hi all,
I have lap diagonal in my TC. I am certain my mounting points are substantial enough to at least afford me some protection.
Yes I may suffer a crushed shoulder but having been involved in a major crash in my Mini in pre seat belts days suffering two broken ankles, almost removing my nose through using it to break the windscreen and now suffering Arthritis in my neck and lower back from crushed vertebra, I make sure I always use the seat belts. 
Whether or not some experts opine that they will not make a significant difference should the worst happen I do not really care because I am certain in my mind that I have much more to gain by wearing them than not. 
In short, if using seat belts makes you more comfortable then use them.
If originality is all important ranking above family members either traveling in the car or the ones left behind when you have dropped off the perch as the result of injuries suffered that could have been minimised, then leave them out. 
Its your decision but to me its a no brainer.
Cheers Mark NZ 
On 8May, 2018, at 11:04, Murray G Arundell arundell@ghs.com.au [mg-tabc] wrote:
Tim,
I suspect that Australian crash statistics are similar to those in the US.  Although I also note that a recent article I read on the subject stated that the most common fatal accident outside of the metropolitan areas of Australia is a single vehicle accident where a car simply veers off the road and strikes a stationary object.  Simply put this means that the driver has lost control and the car leaves the road.  The most common cause of this is driver fatigue.  Understandable if you know the geography of Australia.  Roo strikes happen regularly and at speed this can prove fatal to the driver as well as the roo.
Cheers 
Murray Arundell e arundell@ghs.com.au


On 4 May 2018, at 5:31 am, Timothy Burchfield tburchfi@gmail.com [mg-tabc] wrote:

Roll overs are very rare here in the US.  According to the NHTSA the most common type of accident is the rear end collision and the most common speed is about 10 miles an hour.  So a lap and shoulder belt harness protect you in the majority of accidents you are likely to have in the USA.  In a T Series car any other type of accident or at speeds greater than 20 MPH nothing short of a roll bar and full harness is likely to save you. Again, that is in the US.  For all I know running into a kangaroo might be the most common accident down under. 
Cheers
Tim