Re: Seat Belts

[Bob Grunau]

Hi Murray,I too have driven thousands of miles in my TC and TD, We use lap seat belts. Seat belts just seem to locate us better in the bench seats. Even if buckets, I think a minimum lap belt holds you in the seat more comfortably. Not sure I would want a full harness unless having a roll bar installed. Best regards from Canada,  Bob,  Bob Grunau150 Pinewood Trail,Mississauga, OntarioCanada, L5G-2L1905-274-4136      From: mg-tabc@yahoogroups.com [mailto:mg-tabc@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Murray G Arundell arundell@ghs.com.au [mg-tabc]
Sent: Wednesday, May 02, 2018 11:33 PM
To: mg tc
Subject: [mg-tabc] Seat Belts    As many of you ll know my TC gets a lot of country miles here DownUnder.  Often a return trip can be well over a thousand miles.  I can be a long way to anywhere down here.  In all my years of TC driving I ve never had seat belts fitted.  Lately I ve come to the conclusion that perhaps one should have belts installed.  Whats the group s thoughts on this and which way to go?  Lap, Lap/Sash or Full Harness?  Murray ArundellBrisbane, Australia        

[Stephen D Stierman]

Well Murray, I have sturdy quick release racing type lap belts in TC2911, probably more for affect/appearance than any hopes of survivability in a really bad crash.  My suspicion is that it may be better to stay with the vehicle rather than being thrown out and hence the reason I went this route.  With a steering wheel mounted on a long sturdy shaft  pointed directly at one's chest, a petrol tank as a rear bumper, and sheet metal and ash for side impact, and no roll over protection, I am not really sure that much more is of great value in terms of shoulder/full harness etc.  I have no illusions about the inherent lack of safety in these old vehicles so tend to drive rather carefully and hardly at night for any distance.  Sometimes I will take a grand child for a short run at low speed and feel more comfortable with at least some sort of restraint.Steve TC2911

From: "Murray G Arundell arundell@ghs.com.au [mg-tabc]"
To: mg tc
Sent: Wednesday, May 2, 2018 11:33 PM
Subject: [mg-tabc] Seat Belts

  As many of you ll know my TC gets a lot of country miles here DownUnder.  Often a return trip can be well over a thousand miles.  I can be a long way to anywhere down here.  In all my years of TC driving I ve never had seat belts fitted.  Lately I ve come to the conclusion that perhaps one should have belts installed.  Whats the group s thoughts on this and which way to go?  Lap, Lap/Sash or Full Harness?
Murray ArundellBrisbane, Australia




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[Malcolm Scanlan]

Greetings All, I discussed this issue a few years back with a friend who has a TF, he is by profession a small aircraft surveyor.  His comment was that any harness or over the shoulder type restraint the upper mounting must be above the shoulder otherwise your spine will be broken. Not an easy task to find a suitable mounting place! I do not know of any modern car or airplane that does not comply with this.
Malcolm, TC 6944 also driven many many miles with no belts.
What the world really needs is a windshield wiper that won t hold parking tickets.



From: mg-tabc@yahoogroups.com on behalf of 'Bob Grunau' grunau.garage@sympatico.ca [mg-tabc]
Sent: May 3, 2018 6:28 AM
To: 'Murray G Arundell'; 'mg tc'
Subject: RE: [mg-tabc] Seat Belts    
Hi Murray, I too have driven thousands of miles in my TC and TD, We use lap seat belts. Seat belts just seem to locate us better in the bench seats. Even if buckets, I think a minimum lap belt holds you in the seat more comfortably.  Not sure I would want a full harness unless having a roll bar installed. Best regards from Canada,   Bob,   Bob Grunau 150 Pinewood Trail, Mississauga, Ontario Canada, L5G-2L1 905-274-4136         From: mg-tabc@yahoogroups.com [mailto:mg-tabc@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Murray G Arundell arundell@ghs.com.au [mg-tabc]
Sent: Wednesday, May 02, 2018 11:33 PM
To: mg tc
Subject: [mg-tabc] Seat Belts     As many of you ll know my TC gets a lot of country miles here DownUnder.  Often a return trip can be well over a thousand miles.  I can be a long way to anywhere down here.  In all my years of TC driving I ve never had seat belts fitted.  Lately I ve come to the conclusion that perhaps one should have belts installed.  Whats the group s thoughts on this and which way to go?  Lap, Lap/Sash or Full Harness?   Murray Arundell Brisbane, Australia        

[James Beal]

Murray,
I think the more important issue is how you anchor the belts. A full harness that isn't anchored properly will do little good. Like Steve, I installed a set of racing lap belts in my TC and made sure that they were fastened securely to the chassis crossmember.
Wrenches & ale,James Beal

On Wed, May 2, 2018, 11:33 PM Murray G Arundell arundell@ghs.com.au [mg-tabc] wrote:
As many of you ll know my TC gets a lot of country miles here DownUnder. Often a return trip can be well over a thousand miles. I can be a long way to anywhere down here. In all my years of TC driving I ve never had seat belts fitted. Lately I ve come to the conclusion that perhaps one should have belts installed. Whats the group s thoughts on this and which way to go? Lap, Lap/Sash or Full Harness?
Murray ArundellBrisbane, Australia

[arm@telus.net]

This is a timely thread for me.
I am doing a stupidly extensive restoration of a '66 B-GT.    The seatbelt issue is just in time....I am torn. This car is for my daughter and her daughters (who are, by the way, the most spectacular humans on earth). Do I stay true to the car? I have spent thousands to be period correct.....do I then  put in inertia type restraints?....OMG....I am confused

From: "Stephen D Stierman morgan7709@sbcglobal.net [mg-tabc]"
To: "Murray G Arundell" , "mg-tabc"
Sent: Thursday, 3 May, 2018 06:12:49
Subject: Re: [mg-tabc] Seat Belts

  Well Murray, I have sturdy quick release racing type lap belts in TC2911, probably more for affect/appearance than any hopes of survivability in a really bad crash.  My suspicion is that it may be better to stay with the vehicle rather than being thrown out and hence the reason I went this route.  With a steering wheel mounted on a long sturdy shaft  pointed directly at one's chest, a petrol tank as a rear bumper, and sheet metal and ash for side impact, and no roll over protection, I am not really sure that much more is of great value in terms of shoulder/full harness etc.  I have no illusions about the inherent lack of safety in these old vehicles so tend to drive rather carefully and hardly at night for any distance.  Sometimes I will take a grand child for a short run at low speed and feel more comfortable with at least some sort of restraint.Steve TC2911

From: "Murray G Arundell arundell@ghs.com.au [mg-tabc]"
To: mg tc
Sent: Wednesday, May 2, 2018 11:33 PM
Subject: [mg-tabc] Seat Belts

  As many of you ll know my TC gets a lot of country miles here DownUnder.  Often a return trip can be well over a thousand miles.  I can be a long way to anywhere down here.  In all my years of TC driving I ve never had seat belts fitted.  Lately I ve come to the conclusion that perhaps one should have belts installed.  Whats the group s thoughts on this and which way to go?  Lap, Lap/Sash or Full Harness?
Murray ArundellBrisbane, Australia

[RICK MAMMEL]

I build prototypes for the auto industry. Been involved in safety systems for street and motorsport applications and have witnessed plenty of sled tests. I can support all that has been written to this point, pro and con. You can never expect anything on a T Series or an A / B to support having restraints. The question of staying with the vehicle or hopefully get pitched out and receiving a soft landing on a lawn somewhere is 100 percent up to the laws of chance. But that is the only thing that a seat belt, specifically a lap belt, would offer you. The chance to stay in. Probably just as poor a result as getting pitched out. In other words a seat belt is part of a system and the rest of the system does not exist.

This too is an opportune discussion. I have just pulled TC CKD1766 out of a lengthy hibernation and one of the projects is to put a set seatbelts in. I am using military jump seat... seat belts. They look and function like the full size cam lock 3" racing belts but are only 2" wide and much thinner. They have a vintage look and can only offer keeping your ass in place for braking and turning. As noted above I have no expectations of impact protection.
If this thread has started to create some paranoia about driving safely in a TC, note that I also have a 34 Morgan Super Sport. If you compare TC safety to sitting inside that 55 gallon drum with hot oil and gasoline above your legs, the TC has the safety of an Escalade.

Rick

On Thursday, May 3, 2018 1:17 PM, "'arm@telus.net' arm@telus.net [mg-tabc]" wrote:


  This is a timely thread for me.
I am doing a stupidly extensive restoration of a '66 B-GT.    The seatbelt issue is just in time....I am torn. This car is for my daughter and her daughters (who are, by the way, the most spectacular humans on earth). Do I stay true to the car? I have spent thousands to be period correct.....do I then  put in inertia type restraints?....OMG....I am confused

From: "Stephen D Stierman morgan7709@sbcglobal.net [mg-tabc]"
To: "Murray G Arundell" , "mg-tabc"
Sent: Thursday, 3 May, 2018 06:12:49
Subject: Re: [mg-tabc] Seat Belts

  Well Murray, I have sturdy quick release racing type lap belts in TC2911, probably more for affect/appearance than any hopes of survivability in a really bad crash.  My suspicion is that it may be better to stay with the vehicle rather than being thrown out and hence the reason I went this route.  With a steering wheel mounted on a long sturdy shaft  pointed directly at one's chest, a petrol tank as a rear bumper, and sheet metal and ash for side impact, and no roll over protection, I am not really sure that much more is of great value in terms of shoulder/full harness etc.  I have no illusions about the inherent lack of safety in these old vehicles so tend to drive rather carefully and hardly at night for any distance.  Sometimes I will take a grand child for a short run at low speed and feel more comfortable with at least some sort of restraint.Steve TC2911

From: "Murray G Arundell arundell@ghs.com.au [mg-tabc]"
To: mg tc
Sent: Wednesday, May 2, 2018 11:33 PM
Subject: [mg-tabc] Seat Belts

  As many of you ll know my TC gets a lot of country miles here DownUnder.  Often a return trip can be well over a thousand miles.  I can be a long way to anywhere down here.  In all my years of TC driving I ve never had seat belts fitted.  Lately I ve come to the conclusion that perhaps one should have belts installed.  Whats the group s thoughts on this and which way to go?  Lap, Lap/Sash or Full Harness?
Murray ArundellBrisbane, Australia







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[Chip Hellie]

Hi MurrayWithout actually seeing first the situation you're going to get in , it's really impossible to say what's best. 
A roll cage with 5 point harness is best bet but not esthetically pleasing.
If you have a full size passenger then even a lap belt could be bad news. If you roll over you're well, you get the idea. I'd rather be thrown clear.  By yourself a lap belt only.  You can tuck under and be somewhat safe in your cockpit cocoon. 
The steering wheel will act as an airbag so just a lap belt. Shoulder harness bad. Remember the roll over issue.
Lap belt very good idea with small kids. Even without a wreck keeps them in place. T series doors never just pop open around corners! 
This advice isn't from mere speculation.  Been there done that. Survived a roll over with no windshield during a timed race event years ago.
Lap belt only. I tucked into the cockpit cavity. Just luck maybe but walked away after the car was tipped back over!
My two cents. Hope you never need to test it out!CheersChip Hellie 

Sent from Yahoo Mail on Android

On Wed, May 2, 2018 at 8:33 PM, Murray G Arundell arundell@ghs.com.au [mg-tabc] wrote:  
As many of you ll know my TC gets a lot of country miles here DownUnder.  Often a return trip can be well over a thousand miles.  I can be a long way to anywhere down here.  In all my years of TC driving I ve never had seat belts fitted.  Lately I ve come to the conclusion that perhaps one should have belts installed.  Whats the group s thoughts on this and which way to go?  Lap, Lap/Sash or Full Harness?
Murray ArundellBrisbane, Australia




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[Stephen D Stierman]

This car is for my daughter and her daughters (who are, by the way, the most spectacular humans on earth).
I share the same sentiment, having two daughters myself, a grand daughter, and a couple of grandsons, who all drive around in SUV's, I might suggest you keep the MGB yourself and purchase something else for them, least being a newer Miata with fairly current safety equipment.Steve TC2911

From: "'arm@telus.net' arm@telus.net [mg-tabc]"
To: Stephen D Stierman
Cc: Murray G Arundell ; mg-tabc
Sent: Thursday, May 3, 2018 1:16 PM
Subject: Re: [mg-tabc] Seat Belts

  This is a timely thread for me.
I am doing a stupidly extensive restoration of a '66 B-GT.    The seatbelt issue is just in time....I am torn. This car is for my daughter and her daughters (who are, by the way, the most spectacular humans on earth). Do I stay true to the car? I have spent thousands to be period correct.....do I then  put in inertia type restraints?....OMG....I am confused

From: "Stephen D Stierman morgan7709@sbcglobal.net [mg-tabc]"
To: "Murray G Arundell" , "mg-tabc"
Sent: Thursday, 3 May, 2018 06:12:49
Subject: Re: [mg-tabc] Seat Belts

  Well Murray, I have sturdy quick release racing type lap belts in TC2911, probably more for affect/appearance than any hopes of survivability in a really bad crash.  My suspicion is that it may be better to stay with the vehicle rather than being thrown out and hence the reason I went this route.  With a steering wheel mounted on a long sturdy shaft  pointed directly at one's chest, a petrol tank as a rear bumper, and sheet metal and ash for side impact, and no roll over protection, I am not really sure that much more is of great value in terms of shoulder/full harness etc.  I have no illusions about the inherent lack of safety in these old vehicles so tend to drive rather carefully and hardly at night for any distance.  Sometimes I will take a grand child for a short run at low speed and feel more comfortable with at least some sort of restraint.Steve TC2911

From: "Murray G Arundell arundell@ghs.com.au [mg-tabc]"
To: mg tc
Sent: Wednesday, May 2, 2018 11:33 PM
Subject: [mg-tabc] Seat Belts

  As many of you ll know my TC gets a lot of country miles here DownUnder.  Often a return trip can be well over a thousand miles.  I can be a long way to anywhere down here.  In all my years of TC driving I ve never had seat belts fitted.  Lately I ve come to the conclusion that perhaps one should have belts installed.  Whats the group s thoughts on this and which way to go?  Lap, Lap/Sash or Full Harness?
Murray ArundellBrisbane, Australia







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[Timothy Burchfield]

Roll overs are very rare here in the US. According to the NHTSA the most common type of accident is the rear end collision and the most common speed is about 10 miles an hour. So a lap and shoulder belt harness protect you in the majority of accidents you are likely to have in the USA. In a T Series car any other type of accident or at speeds greater than 20 MPH nothing short of a roll bar and full harness is likely to save you. Again, that is in the US. For all I know running into a kangaroo might be the most common accident down under.
Cheers
Tim

[Timothy Burchfield]

Just FYI:
Crash Index figures from AAMI, a total of 28.7 per cent of accident insurance claims between October 2012 and September 2013 were made in relation to this type of accident.New South Wales has the second highest rate for this category of road crashes in the entire country, coming in second to Victoria.In addition to this, drivers in NSW have more accidents as a result of a failure to give way appropriately than any other state or territory in Australia (22.5 per cent compared to the national record of 20.5 per cent).The Crash Index is an annual measure of the type of accidents occurring on Australian roads. According to the data, the next most common types of crashes are parked car incidents (20.6 per cent), collision with a stationary object (13.8 per cent) and collision while reversing (9.9 per cent).
Tim