TC gear ratios

[Dick Little]

When I bought my TA in 1967, I fitted Model A tires.They were far less expensive and served well for years.Then, when I finished a rebuild in 1999, proper Dunlops were fitted. It was what the car deserved..It was nice to be able to afford them, too; we all know how fast money disappears when we take on rebuilds! Dick Little TA1326

On Sat, Feb 2, 2019 at 1:07 PM Duncan morelists@yahoo.com [mg-tabc] mg-tabc-noreply@yahoogroups.com> wrote: [u][/u] One of the earlier period modifications found useful on a TC was to run 19" Model A tires. They fit just right on the original wheels, and added about 3 inches outside diameter to the tires. Approx 30" vs 27". Road contact patch is near identical. At 60mph that extra diameter drops the engine speed by 400 RPM. Duncan- On Saturday, February 2, 2019, 8:03:27 AM PST, mgtc@comcast.net [mg-tabc] mg-tabc-noreply@yahoogroups.com> wrote: This is a very interesting thread that seems to combine two opposing threads. On the one hand, there is advocacy for originality over practicality. A nostalgic perseverance in the face of modern traffic realities. The point is well-taken that the original performance of the car is still suitable to rural roads and byways. This view is offered by those who use the car strictly for recreation.

The other thread pursues practicality. Higher ratios, modified engines, leading to improved performance in a multi-laned world. This mind bent is focused on utility and offered by those who use the car for transportation.

I offer a variant on both. I installed the sierra box when my original tranny spat out pieces through the drain. Pricing a rebuild vs the sierra box was a near draw, but the rebuild might or might not take a year. Pragmatism won this one, as did hardened valve seats. BTW the Diff is original ratio and fifth gear lops about 400RPM at 60MPH.

[b]_Peter[/b]

[Steve Tom]

For what it s worth, I didn t mean to start an originality vs modification debate. I generally lean toward originality, although I ve run an MGB engine in my MGA for over 40 years now. I try to keep my TC original, but the site of it would make a purist gag. When I bought it, it had a number of 1950 1960 era modifications. 16 wheels. Engine turned dash. Wood rimmed steering wheel. Turn signals with high-mount trailer lights. Pancake air cleaners. Etc. I kept them because they worked fine and to me it wasn t worth the cost or effort to replace them. I have upgraded the lighting to very ugly, definitely not period correct LED tail lights and turn signals which required me to (gasp) convert the car to negative earth! I did this because I do depend on the car for daily transportation. Until recently that included driving the car to work every day in suburban Atlanta traffic. I had no problem with the stock brakes, steering, engine, etc. when driving in this traffic, including occasional spurts up to about 70 mph. (Standard for Atlanta traffic in a 50 mph zone.) I couldn t do anything about the idiots behind me, though, hence the LED lights.

 

My original point is that if you go for a taller rear axle you ll lower the cruising revs but lose a bit of pep. If most of your driving is on highways, it s a good trade-off. If most of your driving is in stop and go traffic or on moderately low speed country roads, you may like the original gearing better.

 

Steve Tom

TC 5311

 

 

This is a very interesting thread that seems to combine two opposing threads.  On the one hand, there is advocacy for originality over practicality. A nostalgic perseverance in the face of modern traffic realities.  The point is well-taken that the original performance of the car is still suitable to rural roads and byways.  This view is offered by those who use the car strictly for recreation.

 

The other thread pursues practicality.  Higher ratios, modified engines, leading to improved performance in a multi-laned world.  This mind bent is focused on utility and offered by those who use the car for transportation.

 

I offer a variant on both. I installed the sierra box when my original tranny spat out pieces through the drain.  Pricing a rebuild vs the sierra box was a near draw, but the rebuild might or might not take a year.  Pragmatism won this one, as did hardened valve seats.  BTW the Diff is original ratio and fifth gear lops about 400RPM at 60MPH.

 

[b]_Peter[/b]

 

 

[Clive Sherriff]

Steve's point about a higher diff leading to reduced "Pep!" is of course true, but our engines were designed to run on a petrol that was rubbish by todays standards, at about 80 octane. The octane ratings just post war were so bad that almost any hill resulted in pinking (pre-detonation) as the engine load exceeded the fuel's capabilities, with a really low standard compression ratio of 7.25:1. Today with octane ratings in the 90s it is almost foolish not to take 3/32 inch (8.6:1 Stage 1) or 1/8 (9.3:1 Stage 2) off the head to raise the compression ratio, and so gain more than enough extra HP to make up for the higher ratios. You can also fit larger valves, and stiffer valve springs too whilst the head is off if you want to. This really livens up the ride. Have a look at Ref https://www.mg-cars.org.uk/imgytr/pdf/spectuning.pdf The engines can easily withstand this without difficulty. Indeed for many years when 99 Octane fuel was readily available at the roadside, I ran a head with 3/32 off it AND a set of 12:1 high crown pistons as well so it must have been about 13:1 ! ( This will leave about 50 feet of rubber on the road on a sharp take off ! ) This is pushing it and early cranks were a bit too fragile, though the later EN40 material cranks stood up fine. Gearbox and diff never gave problems. CliveOxford, UKo oooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooo

On Sat, 2 Feb 2019 at 19:10, Steve Tom steventtom@aol.com [mg-tabc] mg-tabc-noreply@yahoogroups.com> wrote: [u][/u] For what it s worth, I didn t mean to start an originality vs modification debate. I generally lean toward originality, although I ve run an MGB engine in my MGA for over 40 years now. I try to keep my TC original, but the site of it would make a purist gag. When I bought it, it had a number of 1950 1960 era modifications. 16 wheels. Engine turned dash. Wood rimmed steering wheel. Turn signals with high-mount trailer lights. Pancake air cleaners. Etc. I kept them because they worked fine and to me it wasn t worth the cost or effort to replace them. I have upgraded the lighting to very ugly, definitely not period correct LED tail lights and turn signals which required me to (gasp) convert the car to negative earth! I did this because I do depend on the car for daily transportation. Until recently that included driving the car to work every day in suburban Atlanta traffic. I had no problem with the stock brakes, steering, engine, etc. when driving in this traffic, including occasional spurts up to about 70 mph. (Standard for Atlanta traffic in a 50 mph zone..) I couldn t do anything about the idiots behind me, though, hence the LED lights.

[u][/u] [u][/u]

My original point is that if you go for a taller rear axle you ll lower the cruising revs but lose a bit of pep. If most of your driving is on highways, it s a good trade-off. If most of your driving is in stop and go traffic or on moderately low speed country roads, you may like the original gearing better.

[u][/u] [u][/u]

Steve Tom

TC 5311

[u][/u] [u][/u]

[u][/u] [u][/u]

This is a very interesting thread that seems to combine two opposing threads. On the one hand, there is advocacy for originality over practicality. A nostalgic perseverance in the face of modern traffic realities. The point is well-taken that the original performance of the car is still suitable to rural roads and byways. This view is offered by those who use the car strictly for recreation.[u][/u][u][/u]

[u][/u][u][/u]

The other thread pursues practicality. Higher ratios, modified engines, leading to improved performance in a multi-laned world. This mind bent is focused on utility and offered by those who use the car for transportation.[u][/u][u][/u]

[u][/u][u][/u]

I offer a variant on both. I installed the sierra box when my original tranny spat out pieces through the drain. Pricing a rebuild vs the sierra box was a near draw, but the rebuild might or might not take a year. Pragmatism won this one, as did hardened valve seats. BTW the Diff is original ratio and fifth gear lops about 400RPM at 60MPH.[u][/u][u][/u]

[u][/u][u][/u]

[b]_Peter[/b][u][/u][u][/u]

[u][/u][u][/u]

[u][/u][u][/u]

[u][/u] [u][/u]

[Clive Sherriff]

Attachments :Steve, When I bought my TB 55 years ago now, I doubt if one could actually find a perfectly standard T Type for sale. They all had racy alloy steering wheels, extra fog lights, different horns, aero screens, bonnet straps, telescopic shock absorber conversions, pancake air filters, twin fuel pumps (not a bad idea as they failed so often!, map lights, modified dashboards with extra instruments, numerous event badges nailed to the dash, and a host of other after market goodies from radios, and heaters to hardtops. Indeed the TBs tended to have all sorts of goodies added almost for free from the Special Equipment lists as MG knew they were going into war production and were using up all the special stocks they had. This included trafficators, bonnet straps, special shocks etc. etc. Here is part of a 1938/39 list of some of these extras for example ~ would any of our suppliers care to match these prices today ? ? ? (Just asking !) [img]cid:ii_jrnx33340[/img] So there is a real question of if a car has a lot of these from new ~ as did my TB ~ is that a standard car from MG in that sense ? CliveOxford, UKm mmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmm!

On Sat, 2 Feb 2019 at 16:23, Steve S mail@mgnuts.com [mg-tabc] mg-tabc-noreply@yahoogroups.com> wrote: [u][/u] There's another option. The cars can be modified in a period-correct manner. Alfin brake drums, taller rear end gears, performance headers, high compression pistons and other performance items were all available when the cars were new, some right from the factory. As far as modern modifications go, if they can't be detected by sight, sound or feel then I don't have a problem with them. Things like tapered rear axles, which all but eliminate the danger of being stranded on a mountain road when the weak originals snap. Or Bob's oversized front spindles which add safety to a critical steering component. No one including the owner could ever detect the difference without seeing inside, but it improves the reliability and safety of the vehicle. I'm all for experiencing old cars the way they were in their heyday, but in my opinion reducing the likelihood of breakdowns is a worthwhile pursuit. Of course if all you do is polish the car or take it for coffee, then there's really no need. A stock TC is still a wonderful driving car on minor roads. - Steve Simmons, TC8975 On 2/2/2019 8:03 AM, mgtc@comcast.net [mg-tabc] wrote: This is a very interesting thread that seems to combine two opposing threads. On the one hand, there is advocacy for originality over practicality. A nostalgic perseverance in the face of modern traffic realities. The point is well-taken that the original performance of the car is still suitable to rural roads and byways. This view is offered by those who use the car strictly for recreation.[u][/u][u][/u]

[u][/u] [u][/u]

The other thread pursues practicality. Higher ratios, modified engines, leading to improved performance in a multi-laned world. This mind bent is focused on utility and offered by those who use the car for transportation.[u][/u][u][/u]

[u][/u] [u][/u]

I offer a variant on both. I installed the sierra box when my original tranny spat out pieces through the drain. Pricing a rebuild vs the sierra box was a near draw, but the rebuild might or might not take a year. Pragmatism won this one, as did hardened valve seats. BTW the Diff is original ratio and fifth gear lops about 400RPM at 60MPH.[u][/u][u][/u]

[u][/u] [u][/u]

[b]_Peter[u][/u][u][/u][/b]

[u][/u] [u][/u]

[motionwear]

Help me 7nderstand how a TC loses pep with a taller differential ratio, other than from a standing start in first gear up to about 2,000 RPM. I ve been driving taller TC ratios for years and many can attest TC0273 has plenty of pep. Tom W8lson In Zionsville, IN, covering 6 sets of interior TC panels today

[Eugene F Gillam]

Thank you Tom!  Totally agree. I have a friend running a 4.22 here and it s fine...and with a supercharger it s ideal. Gene GillamSaucier, MS Sent from my iPad

On Feb 2, 2019, at 5:38 PM, twilson@indy.rr.com [mg-tabc] mg-tabc-noreply@yahoogroups.com> wrote:

  Help me 7nderstand how a TC loses pep with a taller differential ratio, other than from a standing start in first gear up to about 2,000 RPM. I ve been driving taller TC ratios for years and many can attest TC0273 has plenty of pep. Tom W8lson In Zionsville, IN, covering 6 sets of interior TC panels today

[Bob Stein]

I owned two TCs that were basically identical except for one having the higher rear gearing. My experience was that the car with the higher gearing was noticeably slower accelerating in all ranges. If anything, the car with the higher gearing had the stronger engine, as it had been rebuilt and bored out slightly. I sold it and kept the standard geared car.

 

Sent from Mail for Windows 10

 

[b]From: [/b]mg-tabc-noreply@yahoogroups.com [b]Sent: [/b]Saturday, February 2, 2019 8:59 PM [b]To: [/b]twilson@indy.rr.com [b]Cc: [/b]mg-tabc@yahoogroups.com [b]Subject: [/b]Re: [mg-tabc] Re: TC gear ratios

 

 

Thank you Tom!  Totally agree. I have a friend running a 4.22 here and it s fine...and with a supercharger it s ideal.

Gene Gillam

Saucier, MS

Sent from my iPad

 

 

[motionwear]

Just don t upshift as early in the RPM range and you will eliminate the feeling of sluggishness.

[Clive Sherriff]

Tom, The logic you accept for low revs in first gear does also apply in the higher revs, and likewise in all the other gears too. Clivem mmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmm

On Sat, 2 Feb 2019 at 23:38, twilson@indy.rr.com [mg-tabc] mg-tabc-noreply@yahoogroups.com> wrote: [u][/u] Help me 7nderstand how a TC loses pep with a taller differential ratio, other than from a standing start in first gear up to about 2,000 RPM. I ve been driving taller TC ratios for years and many can attest TC0273 has plenty of pep. Tom W8lson In Zionsville, IN, covering 6 sets of interior TC panels today

[Tweed]

We each get our jollies in different ways and, unless it's illegal, who's to say what is right or wrong.  The changes I have made to 'my' car can be reversed by the next custodian if they feel they really cannot live with them.    I am happy with the changes to 0632 and get great enjoyment from driving it anywhere ... be it on country lanes or trunk roads.  I would be 'cheating at solitaire' if I was trying to convince myself.                 Yes, you have to be aware at all times the vehicle was designed 70 odd years ago and is not full of the woossy driving aids of modern cars, ie  'lane changing', 'auto braking', 'auto lights', 'change gear now lights', buzzers telling you how far away something is' and the now some even park themselves for heavens sake!   Mind you with some peoples idea of parking that is a good thing!  Although the design is pre-war, I think it's fair to say most of the T types we see on the road will have been the subject of major work or total rebuilds and will have benefitted in some way from the advances made in technology and metallurgy.      It all comes down to why we have them and how we use them .. and as I said there is no right, no wrong .. so best enjoy them in the way that suits you.  If it wasn't for Cecil Kimber taking a bull nose Morris and making specials we wouldn't have any MG's at all.  If he is looking down, I'd like to think he's not getting too bent out of shape because some of his cars were still going through changes.   Life is too short to take too seriously.   Tweed.           .    From: "twilson@indy.rr.com [mg-tabc]" mg-tabc-noreply@yahoogroups.com> [b]To:[/b] mg-tabc@yahoogroups.com Sent: Sunday, 3 February 2019, 2:33 [b]Subject:[/b] RE: [mg-tabc] Re: TC gear ratios   Just don t upshift as early in the RPM range and you will eliminate the feeling of sluggishness. #ygrps-yiv-1124900571 #ygrps-yiv-1124900571yiv0175724890 #ygrps-yiv-1124900571yiv0175724890 -- #ygrps-yiv-1124900571yiv0175724890ygrp-mkp { border:1px 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