Re: [mg-tabc] TC Brake Improvements

[John T. Seim]

Bud Bradford wrote:

>
> To All,
>
> If I wanted better brakes on my TC what might I do? I would not want
> to make any change that could not be remove and the car returned to
> normal (stock that is). I've heard mention of Alfin brakes and also
> 240Z brakes. Are these possibilities?
>
> Thanks,
>
> Bud Bradford TC6761 Bakersville, NC

I sell aluminum-finned brake drums as well as Bob Grunau. Single most
improvement will be to switch to a soft lining, over the linings
supplied by either Moss Motors of Abingdon Spares. A competent brake
shop can reline your shoes, riveting soft linings onto your shoes. The
lining needed comes in 1 1/2" width. The shoes should be arc'ed to match
the contour of the brake drums. The shop can also look at your drums,
and determine if they have been lathe-turned too many times, to where
they are at or beyond the maximum I.D. (9.060"). If that is the case,
then new drums, as well as new linings are in order.
John Seim
TC 6590
Irvine, CA

[Peter Pleitner]

Hi Whitworth Heads,

I just noticed that I should have copied everyone on my response to Brad's
question. So here it is.

Cheers, Peter


-----Original Message-----
From: Peter Pleitner [mailto:pleitner@dundee.net]
Sent: Tuesday, May 23, 2000 6:09 PM
To: Bud Bradford
Subject: RE: [mg-tabc] TC Brake Improvements


Hi Brad,

You often get better brake simply by restoring them as new. First make
certain oil and grease don't contaminate the linings. Second obtain good
linings. I've found that "French or Swedish" linings favored by the Model A
Ford drivers (also use stamped steel drums like us) work best for every day
road use. These are coarsely woven textile (like Army belt) with some
threads of brass wire. The hard composition type of linings are not ideal
for steel drums because they cause unwanted wear on our irreplaceable steel
drums. After relining the shoes they should be arced to precisely fit the
ID of your drums. This step is rarely taken today because most of the shoe
arcing equipment has been discarded by the auto service industry.

Also, our stock front drums should be checked for wear (sorry don't know
what the limit is) and the rear drums should be checked for out-of-roundness
(because heavy use of parking brake on hot drums can distort them).

Changing to Alfin or Datsun drums is our only recourse when our stock drums
are no longer serviceable. Alfins are often used to also "dress up" our
cars. Alfins were introduced when TCs were new and raced on bigger tires.
They dissipate heat much better, hence reduce fade. Often they were used in
conjunction with an air scoop with screen on the front brake baking plate
because the shoes also benefited from cooling. But unless you race or drive
on long down-hill stretches in the mountains you won't encounter fade and
lack of heat dissipation a common problem.

IMHO MG recognized the deficiencies of TC brakes when they designed the
brakes for the TD. They changed the entire design up front to "modern" twin
leading shoe operation" by incorporating two single acting cylinders with a
floating shoe design, cast iron drums, and harder linings. Incidentally the
size of the tire contact patch increased also. I believe that an upgrade to
this design with upgraded drums is the best way to actually improve brake
performance (not to mention changing over to 16 inch tires). I have
obtained the necessary parts from a now dead TD some time ago, but have not
had the time nor the need to make these modifications. But for now I'll
keep our originality police at bay on this issue, since my stock brakes are
perfectly capable of locking up my tires. Its probably at my third or
fourth attempt to do so from high speed (65-75mph max) that I might have
cause for concern.

Cheers, Peter
-----Original Message-----
From: Bud Bradford [mailto:bradford@m-y.net]
Sent: Monday, May 22, 2000 9:27 AM
To: MG List E-mail
Subject: [mg-tabc] TC Brake Improvements


To All,

If I wanted better brakes on my TC what might I do? I would not want to
make any change that could not be remove and the car returned to normal
(stock that is). I've heard mention of Alfin brakes and also 240Z brakes.
Are these possibilities?

Thanks,

Bud Bradford TC6761 Bakersville, NC

[Harry Pyle]

Dear All,

Dont forget that the use of 'shrunk on' aluminium fins can give an extra 50
odd years of life to a set of machined drums. Dont EVER throw away the
origininals even if they have been machined out to 1/8" !
The TA/B/C drums are 'pressed steel' and actually change shape when used
hard....especially when hot and when they have been machined.
I have always believed that the idea of shrinking a set of aluminium fins
over the drum was to substantially improve the rigidity and the drums
ability to stay round and not distort....the cooling effect of course is a
bonus.
The use of soft lining material is imperative as the drum material is steel
and the original 1940's soft material had a coefficient of friction to suit
steel. If you use modern hard material (which has a coefficient of friction
to suit cast iron) all you will do is polish the inside of your steel drums
like chrome...suffer 'brake fade' on big mountains and generally have
inefficient brakes.
Original TC brakes with properly set-up soft linings are very satisfactory..
I have never had any trouble locking up all 4 wheels when needed.
Safety Fast..regards

Harry

----- Original Message -----
From: Peter Pleitner
To: T-ABCs List
Sent: Wednesday, May 24, 2000 8:41 PM
Subject: FW: [mg-tabc] TC Brake Improvements


> Hi Whitworth Heads,
>
> I just noticed that I should have copied everyone on my response to Brad's
> question. So here it is.
>
> Cheers, Peter
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Peter Pleitner [mailto:pleitner@dundee.net]
> Sent: Tuesday, May 23, 2000 6:09 PM
> To: Bud Bradford
> Subject: RE: [mg-tabc] TC Brake Improvements
>
>
> Hi Brad,
>
> You often get better brake simply by restoring them as new. First make
> certain oil and grease don't contaminate the linings. Second obtain good
> linings. I've found that "French or Swedish" linings favored by the Model
A
> Ford drivers (also use stamped steel drums like us) work best for every
day
> road use. These are coarsely woven textile (like Army belt) with some
> threads of brass wire. The hard composition type of linings are not ideal
> for steel drums because they cause unwanted wear on our irreplaceable
steel
> drums. After relining the shoes they should be arced to precisely fit the
> ID of your drums. This step is rarely taken today because most of the
shoe
> arcing equipment has been discarded by the auto service industry.
>
> Also, our stock front drums should be checked for wear (sorry don't know
> what the limit is) and the rear drums should be checked for
out-of-roundness
> (because heavy use of parking brake on hot drums can distort them).
>
> Changing to Alfin or Datsun drums is our only recourse when our stock
drums
> are no longer serviceable. Alfins are often used to also "dress up" our
> cars. Alfins were introduced when TCs were new and raced on bigger tires.
> They dissipate heat much better, hence reduce fade. Often they were used
in
> conjunction with an air scoop with screen on the front brake baking plate
> because the shoes also benefited from cooling. But unless you race or
drive
> on long down-hill stretches in the mountains you won't encounter fade and
> lack of heat dissipation a common problem.
>
> IMHO MG recognized the deficiencies of TC brakes when they designed the
> brakes for the TD. They changed the entire design up front to "modern"
twin
> leading shoe operation" by incorporating two single acting cylinders with
a
> floating shoe design, cast iron drums, and harder linings. Incidentally
the
> size of the tire contact patch increased also. I believe that an upgrade
to
> this design with upgraded drums is the best way to actually improve brake
> performance (not to mention changing over to 16 inch tires). I have
> obtained the necessary parts from a now dead TD some time ago, but have
not
> had the time nor the need to make these modifications. But for now I'll
> keep our originality police at bay on this issue, since my stock brakes
are
> perfectly capable of locking up my tires. Its probably at my third or
> fourth attempt to do so from high speed (65-75mph max) that I might have
> cause for concern.
>
> Cheers, Peter
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Bud Bradford [mailto:bradford@m-y.net]
> Sent: Monday, May 22, 2000 9:27 AM
> To: MG List E-mail
> Subject: [mg-tabc] TC Brake Improvements
>
>
> To All,
>
> If I wanted better brakes on my TC what might I do? I would not want
to
> make any change that could not be remove and the car returned to normal
> (stock that is). I've heard mention of Alfin brakes and also 240Z brakes.
> Are these possibilities?
>
> Thanks,
>
> Bud Bradford TC6761 Bakersville, NC
>
>
>
>
>
>