Brake failure

[Burbury Close]

Good Day From Houston: Yesterday I got the TC all shined up for a car show. I started my final check ride, put the brakes on and the pedal promptly went to the floor!!! Amazing how fast one's thoughts get focused!! Thanks to the hand brake I was able to get the old girl back to the garage. I checked the level in the MC. It was just above the bridge. No sign of any leaks anywhere. The previous day I had tested the brakes HARD and they performed flawlessly. I intend to pull drums and inspect, and also bleed them. What other ideas does this august body have?? Thanks. Jim Davis TC 7225 Sent from my iPad Sent from my iPad

[Clive P Sherriff]

Assuming the brake pedal is still actually connected to the master cylinder (!) sounds like a seal failure in the MC.   Clive   = ==================================================

----- Original Message ----- [b]From:[/b] burburyclose@yahoo.com [mg-tabc] [b]To:[/b] mg-tabc@yahoogroups.com [b]Sent:[/b] Sunday, February 05, 2017 10:36 PM [b]Subject:[/b] [mg-tabc] Brake failure   Good Day From Houston: Yesterday I got the TC all shined up for a car show. I started my final check ride, put the brakes on and the pedal promptly went to the floor!!! Amazing how fast one's thoughts get focused!! Thanks to the hand brake I was able to get the old girl back to the garage. I checked the level in the MC. It was just above the bridge. No sign of any leaks anywhere. The previous day I had tested the brakes HARD and they performed flawlessly. I intend to pull drums and inspect, and also bleed them. What other ideas does this august body have?? Thanks. Jim Davis TC 7225 Sent from my iPad Sent from my iPad [img]https://ec.yimg.com/ec?url=http%3A%2F%2Fstatic.avast.com%2Femails%2Favast-mail-stamp.png&t=1522511298&sig=2k8_cblgUGmnd1FFDMBVlQ--~D[/img] This email has been checked for viruses by Avast antivirus software. www.avast.com

[Duncan]

Pedal to floor, with no braking effect. What does pedal do when your foot lifted off it? Duncan- USA --------------------------------------------

On Sun, 2/5/17, Burbury Close burburyclose@yahoo.com [mg-tabc] mg-tabc-noreply@yahoogroups.com> wrote: Subject: [mg-tabc] Brake failure To: "Mg-Tabc" mg-tabc@yahoogroups.com> Date: Sunday, February 5, 2017, 2:36 PM Good Day From Houston: Yesterday I got the TC all shined up for a car show. I started my final check ride, put the brakes on and the pedal promptly went to the floor!!! Amazing how fast one's thoughts get focused!! Thanks to the hand brake I was able to get the old girl back to the garage. I checked the level in the MC. It was just above the bridge. No sign of any leaks anywhere. The previous day I had tested the brakes HARD and they performed flawlessly. I intend to pull drums and inspect, and also bleed them. What other ideas does this august body have?? Thanks. Jim Davis TC 7225 Sent from my iPad Sent from my iPad Posted by: Burbury Close burburyclose@yahoo.com> Reply via web post Reply to sender Reply to group Start a New Topic Messages in this topic (10) Have you tried the highest rated email app? With 4.5 stars in iTunes, the Yahoo Mail app is the highest rated email app on the market. What are you waiting for? Now you can access all your inboxes (Gmail, Outlook, AOL and more) in one place. Never delete an email again with 1000GB of free cloud storage. Visit Your Group Privacy Unsubscribe Terms of Use .

[Burbury Close]

Pedal jumps back to initial position....Jim Sent from my iPad

On Feb 5, 2017, at 8:30 PM, Duncan morelists@yahoo.com [mg-tabc] mg-tabc-noreply@yahoogroups.com> wrote:

  Pedal to floor, with no braking effect. What does pedal do when your foot lifted off it? Duncan- USA -------------------------------------------- On Sun, 2/5/17, Burbury Close burburyclose@yahoo.com [mg-tabc] mg-tabc-noreply@yahoogroups.com> wrote: Subject: [mg-tabc] Brake failure To: "Mg-Tabc" mg-tabc@yahoogroups.com> Date: Sunday, February 5, 2017, 2:36 PM   Good Day From Houston: Yesterday I got the TC all shined up for a car show. I started my final check ride, put the brakes on and the pedal promptly went to the floor!!! Amazing how fast one's thoughts get focused!! Thanks to the hand brake I was able to get the old girl back to the garage. I checked the level in the MC. It was just above the bridge. No sign of any leaks anywhere. The previous day I had tested the brakes HARD and they performed flawlessly. I intend to pull drums and inspect, and also bleed them. What other ideas does this august body have?? Thanks. Jim Davis TC 7225 Sent from my iPad Sent from my iPad Posted by: Burbury Close burburyclose@yahoo.com> Reply via web post Reply to sender Reply to group Start a New Topic Messages in this topic (10) Have you tried the highest rated email app? With 4.5 stars in iTunes, the Yahoo Mail app is the highest rated email app on the market. What are you waiting for? Now you can access all your inboxes (Gmail, Outlook, AOL and more) in one place. Never delete an email again with 1000GB of free cloud storage. Visit Your Group Privacy Unsubscribe Terms of Use .

[Duncan]

Jim, There is a spring pulling back on the pedal, but do you think the piston in the master cylinder is returning by itself, when the pedal is released? The brakes on the TC will get pretty poor when they need a bleeding. Any chance of that? Can you "pump" the brakes and get anything to happen? Any other history on the brakes might be helpful if it is more complicated than that. The master cylinder can develop an internal leak, where fluid gets behind the piston, but often that results in the piston getting stuck in or returning slowly, before a leak appears at the back (towards front of car). If you get under the car and have someone push the pedal down, then release it, and you see the m/c piston returning pretty quick, might just need a bleed. Duncan- --------------------------------------------

On Sun, 2/5/17, Burbury Close burburyclose@yahoo.com [mg-tabc] mg-tabc-noreply@yahoogroups.com> wrote: Subject: Re: [mg-tabc] Brake failure To: "Duncan" morelists@yahoo.com> Cc: mg-tabc@yahoogroups.com Date: Sunday, February 5, 2017, 6:40 PM Pedal jumps back to initial position....Jim Sent from my iPad On Feb 5, 2017, at 8:30 PM, Duncan morelists@yahoo.com [mg-tabc] mg-tabc-noreply@yahoogroups.com> wrote: Pedal to floor, with no braking effect. What does pedal do when your foot lifted off it? Duncan- USA -------------------------------------------- On Sun, 2/5/17, Burbury Close burburyclose@yahoo.com [mg-tabc] mg-tabc-noreply@yahoogroups.com> wrote: Subject: [mg-tabc] Brake failure To: "Mg-Tabc" mg-tabc@yahoogroups.com> Date: Sunday, February 5, 2017, 2:36 PM Good Day From Houston: Yesterday I got the TC all shined up for a car show. I started my final check ride, put the brakes on and the pedal promptly went to the floor!!! Amazing how fast one's thoughts get focused!! Thanks to the hand brake I was able to get the old girl back to the garage. I checked the level in the MC. It was just above the bridge. No sign of any leaks anywhere. The previous day I had tested the brakes HARD and they performed flawlessly. I intend to pull drums and inspect, and also bleed them. What other ideas does this august body have?? Thanks. Jim Davis TC 7225 Sent from my iPad Sent from my iPad Posted by: Burbury Close burburyclose@yahoo.com> Reply via web post Reply to sender Reply to group Start a New Topic Messages in this topic (10) Have you tried the highest rated email app? With 4.5 stars in iTunes, the Yahoo Mail app is the highest rated email app on the market. What are you waiting for? Now you can access all your inboxes (Gmail, Outlook, AOL and more) in one place. Never delete an email again with 1000GB of free cloud storage. Visit Your Group Privacy Unsubscribe Terms of Use . Posted by: Burbury Close burburyclose@yahoo.com> Reply via web post Reply to sender Reply to group Start a New Topic Messages in this topic (13) Have you tried the highest rated email app? With 4.5 stars in iTunes, the Yahoo Mail app is the highest rated email app on the market. What are you waiting for? Now you can access all your inboxes (Gmail, Outlook, AOL and more) in one place. Never delete an email again with 1000GB of free cloud storage. Visit Your Group Privacy Unsubscribe Terms of Use .

[Norman Verona]

Just a thought, but if the master cylinder is full and there are no signs of leaks it should not have air in the system. For air to get in, fluid has to come out.

 

Sounds like the seal in the master cylinder is allowing fluid into the drain bake hole. (Does that make sense?)

 

[b]Norman Verona[/b]

La Foie, 49520, Noellet, France

Tel: 0033 (0)2 41 92 73 44

Mob: 0033 (0)7 70 70 23 79

Website: www FrenchBlat com (put dots in the spaces)

 

[b]From:[/b] mg-tabc@yahoogroups.com [mailto:mg-tabc@yahoogroups.com] [b]On Behalf Of [/b]Duncan morelists@yahoo.com [mg-tabc] [b]Sent:[/b] 06 February 2017 05:30 [b]To:[/b] mg-tabc@yahoogroups.com; burburyclose@yahoo.com [b]Subject:[/b] Re: [mg-tabc] Brake failure

 

 

Jim, There is a spring pulling back on the pedal, but do you think the piston in the master cylinder is returning by itself, when the pedal is released? The brakes on the TC will get pretty poor when they need a bleeding. Any chance of that? Can you "pump" the brakes and get anything to happen? Any other history on the brakes might be helpful if it is more complicated than that. The master cylinder can develop an internal leak, where fluid gets behind the piston, but often that results in the piston getting stuck in or returning slowly, before a leak appears at the back (towards front of car). If you get under the car and have someone push the pedal down, then release it, and you see the m/c piston returning pretty quick, might just need a bleed. Duncan- --------------------------------------------

On Sun, 2/5/17, Burbury Close burburyclose@yahoo.com [mg-tabc] mg-tabc-noreply@yahoogroups.com> wrote: Subject: Re: [mg-tabc] Brake failure To: "Duncan" morelists@yahoo.com> Cc: mg-tabc@yahoogroups.com Date: Sunday, February 5, 2017, 6:40 PM   Pedal jumps back to initial position....Jim Sent from my iPad On Feb 5, 2017, at 8:30 PM, Duncan morelists@yahoo.com [mg-tabc] mg-tabc-noreply@yahoogroups.com> wrote:   Pedal to floor, with no braking effect. What does pedal do when your foot lifted off it? Duncan- USA -------------------------------------------- On Sun, 2/5/17, Burbury Close burburyclose@yahoo.com [mg-tabc] mg-tabc-noreply@yahoogroups.com> wrote: Subject: [mg-tabc] Brake failure To: "Mg-Tabc" mg-tabc@yahoogroups.com> Date: Sunday, February 5, 2017, 2:36 PM   Good Day From Houston: Yesterday I got the TC all shined up for a car show. I started my final check ride, put the brakes on and the pedal promptly went to the floor!!! Amazing how fast one's thoughts get focused!! Thanks to the hand brake I was able to get the old girl back to the garage. I checked the level in the MC. It was just above the bridge. No sign of any leaks anywhere. The previous day I had tested the brakes HARD and they performed flawlessly. I intend to pull drums and inspect, and also bleed them. What other ideas does this august body have?? Thanks. Jim Davis TC 7225 Sent from my iPad Sent from my iPad Posted by: Burbury Close burburyclose@yahoo.com> Reply via web post Reply to sender Reply to group Start a New Topic Messages in this topic (10) Have you tried the highest rated email app? With 4.5 stars in iTunes, the Yahoo Mail app is the highest rated email app on the market. What are you waiting for? Now you can access all your inboxes (Gmail, Outlook, AOL and more) in one place. Never delete an email again with 1000GB of free cloud storage. Visit Your Group Privacy Unsubscribe Terms of Use . Posted by: Burbury Close burburyclose@yahoo.com> Reply via web post Reply to sender Reply to group Start a New Topic Messages in this topic (13) Have you tried the highest rated email app? With 4.5 stars in iTunes, the Yahoo Mail app is the highest rated email app on the market. What are you waiting for? Now you can access all your inboxes (Gmail, Outlook, AOL and more) in one place. Never delete an email again with 1000GB of free cloud storage. Visit Your Group Privacy Unsubscribe Terms of Use .

[eworpe]

Hi Jim, I had this same problem last July. If there were any leaks, the fluid level in the MC would be down; as Clive has suggested the rubber seal in the MC no longer functions. I did a comparison between an original Lockheed seal and the replacement type in my MC and found that the edge of the cup on the Lockheed was feather edged whilst that of the replacement was about 1.5mm thick. I suspect that as the cup ages the lack of flexibility at the cup's edge prevents it hugging the wall and allows the fluid to squirt past. The wall of the MC was polished with no pitting and appeared unworn. If there's some pitting of the MC's wall due to corrosion, then the seal may have become worn. If, on the other hand, the design of the replacement seals is flawed, then both our experiences are an indication of latent problems in some rebuilt MCs. Please keep us informed about what you find. Best wishes, Eric. ________________________________________ From: Burbury Close burburyclose@yahoo.com [mg-tabc] Yesterday I got the TC all shined up for a car show. I started my final check ride, put the brakes on and the pedal promptly went to the floor!!! Amazing how fast one's thoughts get focused!! Thanks to the hand brake I was able to get the old girl back to the garage. I checked the level in the MC. It was just above the bridge. No sign of any leaks anywhere. The previous day I had tested the brakes HARD and they performed flawlessly. I intend to pull drums and inspect, and also bleed them. What other ideas does this august body have?? Thanks.

[James Davis]

Thanks to all of you for your ideas. I checked the brake lines,MC, etc with no indication of leakage. Then I bled the line out. Much air in there. The brakes came back after bleeding. Perhaps when I tested the brakes HARD the day before, I explosed some intermittent crack etc in the system which only shows up with hard use. I plan to give it a rigorous test after my diff comes back from being worked over. I'm on pins and needles driving it now and will try to break the fault during the next hard test. I'll keep the group informed. Thanks again. Jim Davis TC 7225 Houston

[Norman Verona]

Jim,

 

Something wrong with your statement. If there is air in the system then the fluid that was in there must have leaked out.  I suspect you do have a leak otherwise the air cannot get into the system.

 

Think of a bottle which is full of water. To get more water in, or air, then the water in the bottle must overflow.

 

[b]Norman Verona[/b]

La Foie, 49520, Noellet, France

Tel: 0033 (0)2 41 92 73 44

Mob: 0033 (0)7 70 70 23 79

Website: www FrenchBlat com (put dots in the spaces)

 

[b]From:[/b] mg-tabc@yahoogroups.com [mailto:mg-tabc@yahoogroups.com] [b]On Behalf Of [/b]James Davis burburyclose@yahoo.com [mg-tabc] [b]Sent:[/b] 06 February 2017 23:03 [b]To:[/b] Mg-Tabc mg-tabc@yahoogroups.com> [b]Subject:[/b] [mg-tabc] Brake Failure

 

 

Thanks to all of you for your ideas. I checked the brake lines,MC, etc with no indication of leakage. Then I bled the line out. Much air in there. The brakes came back after bleeding. Perhaps when I tested the brakes HARD the day before, I explosed some intermittent crack etc in the system which only shows up with hard use. I plan to give it a rigorous test after my diff comes back from being worked over. I'm on pins and needles driving it now and will try to break the fault during the next hard test. I'll keep the group informed. Thanks again. Jim Davis TC 7225 Houston

[John Kallend]

Or the fluid level in the reservoir could have gone up. _____________________________John KallendProfessor EmeritusDepartment of Mechanical, Materials and Aerospace EngineeringDepartment of PhysicsIIT, Chicago

On Mon, Feb 6, 2017 at 4:42 PM, 'Norman Verona' norman@frenchblat.com [mg-tabc] mg-tabc-noreply@yahoogroups.com> wrote: [u][/u] Jim, [u][/u][u][/u]

[u][/u] [u][/u]

Something wrong with your statement. If there is air in the system then the fluid that was in there must have leaked out. I suspect you do have a leak otherwise the air cannot get into the system.[u][/u][u][/u]

[u][/u] [u][/u]

Think of a bottle which is full of water. To get more water in, or air, then the water in the bottle must overflow.[u][/u][u][/u]

[u][/u] [u][/u]

[b]Norman Verona[u][/u][u][/u][/b]

La Foie, 49520, Noellet, France[u][/u][u][/u]

Tel: 0033 (0)2 41 92 73 44[u][/u][u][/u]

Mob: 0033 (0)7 70 70 23 79[u][/u][u][/u]

Website: www FrenchBlat com (put dots in the spaces)[u][/u][u][/u]

[u][/u] [u][/u]

[b]From:[/b] mg-tabc@yahoogroups.com [mailto:mg-tabc@yahoogroups.com] [b]On Behalf Of [/b]James Davis burburyclose@yahoo.com [mg-tabc] [b]Sent:[/b] 06 February 2017 23:03 [b]To:[/b] Mg-Tabc mg-tabc@yahoogroups.com> [b]Subject:[/b] [mg-tabc] Brake Failure[u][/u][u][/u]

[u][/u] [u][/u]

[u][/u][u][/u]

Thanks to all of you for your ideas. I checked the brake lines,MC, etc with no indication of leakage. Then I bled the line out. Much air in there. The brakes came back after bleeding. Perhaps when I tested the brakes HARD the day before, I explosed some intermittent crack etc in the system which only shows up with hard use. I plan to give it a rigorous test after my diff comes back from being worked over. I'm on pins and needles driving it now and will try to break the fault during the next hard test. I'll keep the group informed. Thanks again. Jim Davis TC 7225 Houston[u][/u][u][/u][u][/u][u][/u]