Bishop cam

[Terry Horlick]

A while ago (nearly a month)I got my car to the point I could test it up to speed on the freeway. When I got home the steering broke. I posted photos of the broken sector but, as Bob pointed out, I didn't make a lot of my suspicions that the car had been in a collision in the dim past. While my photos indeed show how and where the sector can break, it didn't show what type of force was required to do it. The car has a replacement right front wing and as I removed the steering box for repair I found that the damage was not just to the sector. By withdrawing the shaft I found shards of the shattered thrust washer from the Tompkins kit. Once the box was removed from the car it became evident that inboard arm of the cast steel mounting bracket had been snapped off. It definitely takes more than a pothole to do that kind of damage. I had an opportunity to purchase a Datsun box ready for installation but upon discussion with Bob Grunau I decided to repair the original steering. There are instructions on some websites on proper set-up of the Bishop box, these are easy to follow. I found that my box had just the proper set-up and perfect number of shims, so the cause of the damage and sloppy steering must have been the collision. Today I put the car back together and went for a ride. With the bracket welded up and the sector replaced, everything set up properly there is no play in the steering wheel, no effort is needed to steer. It is now easy to turn all the way to both locks. You can go down the freeway and feel comfortable with one finger on the wheel... in fact I took both hands off the wheel and the car just kept on straight ahead just like a modern car... except with more style! The folks who write on the web about restoring the stock steering are right, there really doesn't seem to be any reason to goober up the car with non-original parts. The repair on the original is easy and it really only takes minutes to pull the whole steering assembly out of the car or to put it back in. The design of the whole thing seems to have been planned out so that a home tinkerer can do everything with hand tools. As a modern seal had already been installed in my box I didn't even get to use my lathe or mill! Notice that I had a really scary steering failure, but after evaluating the design and the parts I am really confident that this steering set-up is safe and up to any demand I might ever place on the car. It is also interesting to note that you can slam these cars hard enough to break the steering brackets, sectors, and thrust washers... but the car just keeps on going; the previous owner didn't even know (or admit?) the damage was in there! Safety fast?.... yup! Terry TC2285

[Rick Waters]

I am another one pleased with the original steering. I've put in a lip seal and a Tomkins kit, but the box, which i rebuilt, is otherwise stock. I am curious as to how big and strong your finger is, as I have never heard anybody describe the stock steering, even with the Tompkins (SP?) kit! My kingpins, thrust washers, and steering ball joints are all like new, and the car does not wander, but, it does NOT have light steering. On another note, I was given a spare steering box by a former TC owner, who swore that it worked when it was taken out of his TC and replaced with a newer one. He said it had not been taken apart, just put away in his garage. When I took it apart, there was no worm shaft bearing on the bottom of the worm! I wonder how that car steered! -Rick Terry Horlick thorlick@sbcglobal.net> wrote: A while ago (nearly a month)I got my car to the point I could test it up to speed on the freeway. When I got home the steering broke. I posted photos of the broken sector but, as Bob pointed out, I didn't make a lot of my suspicions that the car had been in a collision in the dim past. While my photos indeed show how and where the sector can break, it didn't show what type of force was required to do it. The car has a replacement right front wing and as I removed the steering box for repair I found that the damage was not just to the sector. By withdrawing the shaft I found shards of the shattered thrust washer from the Tompkins kit. Once the box was removed from the car it became evident that inboard arm of the cast steel mounting bracket had been snapped off. It definitely takes more than a pothole to do that kind of damage. I had an opportunity to purchase a Datsun box ready for installation but upon discussion with Bob Grunau I decided to repair the original steering. There are instructions on some websites on proper set-up of the Bishop box, these are easy to follow. I found that my box had just the proper set-up and perfect number of shims, so the cause of the damage and sloppy steering must have been the collision. Today I put the car back together and went for a ride. With the bracket welded up and the sector replaced, everything set up properly there is no play in the steering wheel, no effort is needed to steer. It is now easy to turn all the way to both locks. You can go down the freeway and feel comfortable with one finger on the wheel... in fact I took both hands off the wheel and the car just kept on straight ahead just like a modern car... except with more style! The folks who write on the web about restoring the stock steering are right, there really doesn't seem to be any reason to goober up the car with non-original parts. The repair on the original is easy and it really only takes minutes to pull the whole steering assembly out of the car or to put it back in. The design of the whole thing seems to have been planned out so that a home tinkerer can do everything with hand tools. As a modern seal had already been installed in my box I didn't even get to use my lathe or mill! Notice that I had a really scary steering failure, but after evaluating the design and the parts I am really confident that this steering set-up is safe and up to any demand I might ever place on the car. It is also interesting to note that you can slam these cars hard enough to break the steering brackets, sectors, and thrust washers... but the car just keeps on going; the previous owner didn't even know (or admit?) the damage was in there! Safety fast?.... yup! Terry TC2285 Yahoo! Groups Links -Rick Waters __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around http://mail.yahoo.com [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

[Jorolibb@aol.com]

Terry, What websites show how to set up a Bishop Cam box are you referring to? Thanks, John Libbert Milford, OH TC 2138 [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

[Terry Horlick]

John, There are several. First read through the old MG service information found in the manuals. Then check out the web. two links require you sign on to the t-abc list at http://www.mg-tabc.org/ http://www.mg-tabc.org/techn-up/bishop-cam.htm This is a link to an old article which you can download and read. http://www.mg-tabc.org/files/buell-tc-frontend.pdf This is an excellent article on the full front end set-up, a must- read. http://www.mg-tabc.org/files/buell-tc-frontend.pdf This is the best one for setting up your original box in my opinion. I suggest you downloak it and print it out then put it in your three ring binder of collected repair-maintenance tips (you are compiling one of these, right?). If you run into problems contact some of the folks on-line on this list (not me, but someone who has lots of experience). Terry

--- In mg-tabc@yahoogroups.com, Jorolibb@a... wrote: > Terry, > > What websites show how to set up a Bishop Cam box are you referring to? > > Thanks, > > John Libbert > Milford, OH > TC 2138 > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

[Peter Roberts]

Here is a puzzler for you all.

 

I am about to replace the cam at the end of the steering shaft.  Doug Pelton has kindly sent me an article detailing how this is to be done.  Step one is, obviously, to remove the old cam.  And step two is to install the new cam.  However, the article cautions as follows:

 

Before removing the old cam make a note of the top and bottom and ensure that the new cam goes on the same way around.

 

Ok, but suppose the old cam was put on backwards.  How will you know if you have your new cam the right way around?  Do anyone have a clue on how to verify the topness and bottomness of the Bishop Cam?

 

Many thanks in advance,

 

_Peter in CT

TC0604

[Madhu Paroor]

Hi Peter, I will make sure that both end stoppers are in place and are similar. Then I will start from one end and insert the old arm. before tightening it, check the steering position. Make sure that that the steering is in the middle is wheels are straight.If everything is in good position, one can start tightening. Just a stupid thought. Those members with more experience will have better idea. TC 0448 original box has very little wear and very little play. So no experience in steering fiddling. madhu 2013/1/10 Peter Roberts mgtc@comcast.net>

[u][/u] Here is a puzzler for you all. I am about to replace the cam at the end of the steering shaft. Doug Pelton has kindly sent me an article detailing how this is to be done. Step one is, obviously, to remove the old cam. And step two is to install the new cam. However, the article cautions as follows: Before removing the old cam make a note of the top and bottom and ensure that the new cam goes on the same way around. Ok, but suppose the old cam was put on backwards. How will you know if you have your new cam the right way around? Do anyone have a clue on how to verify the topness and bottomness of the Bishop Cam? Many thanks in advance, _Peter in CT TC0604

[Peter Roberts]

What a marvelous group we have to find such an esoteric tidbit as this!  Bob, I immediately went and looked at the new Cam and it most assuredly has a spline at one end and a smooth bore at the other!  I assume that the inner column is similarly fitted out with a smooth shaft at the end leading up to some splining where the Cam splines engage.  No doubt this will become quite clear when I remove the old Cam.   Thanks so much for your assist!   _Peter   [b]From:[/b] grunau.garage@sympatico.ca [b]Sent:[/b] Thursday, January 10, 2013 4:52 PM [b]To:[/b] mgtc@comcast.net [b]Subject:[/b] RE: [mg-tabc] Bishop Cam   Peter, there is an inner spline on the steering cam. This will be at the FORWARD end of the cam ane inner column. Heat the end of the inner steering shaft where it is peened over, drift out the old cam.  Install new cam with inner splines forward, or to forward end of inner column. heat column end and peen over to hold the cam in place. Bob Grunau  

[quote] -----Original Message----- [b]From:[/b] mg-tabc@yahoogroups.com [mailto:mg-tabc@yahoogroups.com][b]On Behalf Of [/b]Peter Roberts [b]Sent:[/b] Thursday, January 10, 2013 4:31 PM [b]To:[/b] mg-tabc@yahoogroups.com [b]Subject:[/b] [mg-tabc] Bishop Cam  

Here is a puzzler for you all.   I am about to replace the cam at the end of the steering shaft.  Doug Pelton has kindly sent me an article detailing how this is to be done.  Step one is, obviously, to remove the old cam.  And step two is to install the new cam.  However, the article cautions as follows:   Before removing the old cam make a note of the top and bottom and ensure that the new cam goes on the same way around.   Ok, but suppose the old cam was put on backwards.  How will you know if you have your new cam the right way around?  Do anyone have a clue on how to verify the topness and bottomness of the Bishop Cam?   Many thanks in advance,   _Peter in CT TC0604

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