Re: Canisters on firewall

[Ian Linton]

Peter, Never seen anything like these before (and your copy to TABC will have removed the attachments). They look like lubricator reservoirs, that maybe drip feed lube oil somewhere, but if memory serves you have a TC so there is no need! Is there any sign of a manufacturer's name stamped on them? Ian Linton TA3120 East Sussex, UK

----- Original Message ----- From: Peter Roberts To: Ian Linton Cc: mg-tabc@yahoogroups.com Sent: 06 February, 2005 18:41 Subject: Re: Canisters on firewall Ian, If that cannister is the reservoir for the Jackall system, then I have a mystery. What on earth is this pair? They were fixed to the firewall with the attached bracket. No tubing ran from them, it had apparently been removed by the P.O. Running along the chassis rails to the front and rear were copper tubing lines, smaller in diameter than fuel line tubing if memory serves, and terminating in "t" cross-pieces with no further connections. The knurled knobs at the top are attached to plungers, similar to the dashpot plungers on the carbs. Does anyone have a clue? _Peter ----- Original Message ----- From: Ian Linton To: Peter Roberts Sent: Sunday, February 06, 2005 10:12 AM Subject: Canisters on firewall Peter, Further to our emails below, I came across this photo I took of a YA at Epsom a couple of years ago. This shows the Jackall canister and the control dial. Not sure what the power source is, though. Regards, Ian Linton TA3120, East Sussex, UK ----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Peter, I believe TCs were provide with at least one oil canister, but it simply spare engine oil. Not sure why you have two. The lube system on late TAs and TBs is simply to direct lube oil (not grease, but similar to rear axle oil) to the trunnions (phosphor bronze bushes) at the rear of the front and rear springs. These were replaced after the war by the hanging bushes using Silentbloc rubber bushes. The best explanation I have heard for this replacement was a shortage of phosphor bronze after the war. Seems plausible. I understand the trunnions hold the springs tighter than the hanging bushes, hence the T-type racers preferring a TA chassis with the much better TC engine. There is also a third oiler for the oil connection on the handbrake. I believe the TC has a local grease nipple for this purpose. There are no controls at all, simply three nipples on each side of the engine compartment leading to the trunnions and handbrake cables. The pipes are very vulnerable to damage and owners often use grease rather than oil, which tends to block the lines over the years. Believe me, you are probably better off without this system, nothing but trouble. It's just that as my TA had it, I feel obliged to restore it. Sometimes your canisters or replicas come up on Ebay. Regards, Ian ----- Original Message ----- From: "Peter Roberts" mgtc@comcast.net> To: "Ian Linton" cars@castle-energy.co.uk> Sent: 19 January, 2005 17:20 Subject: Re: [mg-tabc] TA Lube System - summary > Ian, > > What are the two canisters that were bolted to the firewall of my TC? I > am told they are the reservoirs for your oiling system. My car only had > the canisters, none of the tubing you describe. Would there also be > controls fitted in the passenger compartment? > _Peter > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Ian Linton" cars@castle-energy.co.uk> > To: "MG-TABC Group (all)" mg-tabc@yahoogroups.com> > Cc: "Lee Jacobsen" ljacobsen@jacobsenindustries.com>; "Clive Sherriff" > clive.sherriff@ntlworld.com>; "Tom Metcalf" mgtom@zoominternet.net> > Sent: Tuesday, January 18, 2005 9:11 AM > Subject: [mg-tabc] TA Lube System - summary > > >> >> Hi Group, >> >> (Following a recent request for a summary of findings for the >> archive......) >> >> Thanks to all who replied to me on this one. I think with your help and >> some more R&D on my part I've cracked most of the problems. First >> lesson, photograph every detail before dismantling, although in >> mitigation in my case everything was so rusty and crudded up that even >> the photos I did take resemble a very untidy muddy field. >> >> Findings as follows, usual caveats, valid TA 2258 onwards: >> >> 1. Components - a full listing is in the Service Parts List (I have a >> replica bought at a Rebuild) Page 60 for the Grouped Nipple Chassis >> Lubrication System. This gives lengths of 2'10", 5'8" and 8'9" for the >> tubing. >> 2. Tubing - 3/16" x 20 gauge bought from Namrick in Brighton, UK. Two 25 >> foot rolls are more than enough. The outer diameter is within a gnat's >> whisker of the original piping (Clive). The pipe comes with a line of >> black print on it but this comes off with a fierce rubbing using a cloth >> and white spirit. Spare pipe can possibly be used for the carb float >> bowl overflow lines. >> 3. Olives - I have not used as I discovered my pipe flaring kit has a >> 3/16" die which makes ends which suit all the adapters just fine. The >> pipe ends need a little gentle filing or sanding to remove the surface >> marks created in the flaring operation as the original nuts are a tight >> fit on the new tubing. Not strictly original, but invisible when made >> up. >> 4. Oilers - Like Clive I'm missing two, so I have made up substitutes >> (not replicas, but close enough for now) using a plated M8 x 1.0 (= >> Metric Fine) bolt having thread length 1.6 mm, drilled through with 2.5mm >> hole, then counter-drilled similar to an original oiler. This seems to >> work fine, even though the threads seem strange for an MG. The oiler >> threads, securing half nuts, brass nuts etc, clean up nicely with M8 x >> 1.0 taps and dies. I've not fitted grease nipples yet, but note that the >> originals have separate balls and springs inside the adapter body, not >> captive in the grease nipples as more usual nowadays. >> 5. Rear Trunnion elbow - Not available but Tom has converted a modern >> fitting to an excellent replica, although not for sale. I may have a go, >> but for now will connect this line direct to the trunnions (see >> Clausanger Page 20). Again the M8 x 1.0 comes to the rescue as a >> suitable BSF thread can be turned down at one end to give several turns >> to suite the original brass nut. Drilling through will provide the >> required adapter. >> 6. Routing - Sherrell has an illustration on Page 255 which shows a line >> of spare holes which he refers to as "probably pre-war greaser mounts". >> Clausanger has several photos which show parts, Pages 18, 19 and 20. All >> piping goes on the outside of the chassis (thanks Lee). >> >> Hopes the above helps someone else, sorry if I've gone on a bit, or >> appear too much of an anorak. >> >> Also, if anyone out there has two oiler adapters and two elbows going >> spare, then I can offer a good home, and money if you insist........ >> >> Best regards to this magnificent self-help group, >> Ian Linton (TA3120) >> Lewes, East Sussex, UK [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

[Peter Roberts]

----- Original Message ----- From: Peter Roberts To: Ian Linton Sent: Sunday, February 06, 2005 1:41 PM Subject: Re: Canisters on firewall Ian, If that cannister is the reservoir for the Jackall system, then I have a mystery. What on earth is this pair? They were fixed to the firewall with the attached bracket. No tubing ran from them, it had apparently been removed by the P.O. Running along the chassis rails to the front and rear were copper tubing lines, smaller in diameter than fuel line tubing if memory serves, and terminating in "t" cross-pieces with no further connections. The knurled knobs at the top are attached to plungers, similar to the dashpot plungers on the carbs. Does anyone have a clue? _Peter ----- Original Message ----- From: Ian Linton To: Peter Roberts Sent: Sunday, February 06, 2005 10:12 AM Subject: Canisters on firewall Peter, Further to our emails below, I came across this photo I took of a YA at Epsom a couple of years ago. This shows the Jackall canister and the control dial. Not sure what the power source is, though. Regards, Ian Linton TA3120, East Sussex, UK ----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Peter, I believe TCs were provide with at least one oil canister, but it simply spare engine oil. Not sure why you have two. The lube system on late TAs and TBs is simply to direct lube oil (not grease, but similar to rear axle oil) to the trunnions (phosphor bronze bushes) at the rear of the front and rear springs. These were replaced after the war by the hanging bushes using Silentbloc rubber bushes. The best explanation I have heard for this replacement was a shortage of phosphor bronze after the war. Seems plausible. I understand the trunnions hold the springs tighter than the hanging bushes, hence the T-type racers preferring a TA chassis with the much better TC engine. There is also a third oiler for the oil connection on the handbrake. I believe the TC has a local grease nipple for this purpose. There are no controls at all, simply three nipples on each side of the engine compartment leading to the trunnions and handbrake cables. The pipes are very vulnerable to damage and owners often use grease rather than oil, which tends to block the lines over the years. Believe me, you are probably better off without this system, nothing but trouble. It's just that as my TA had it, I feel obliged to restore it. Sometimes your canisters or replicas come up on Ebay. Regards, Ian ----- Original Message ----- From: "Peter Roberts" mgtc@comcast.net> To: "Ian Linton" cars@castle-energy.co.uk> Sent: 19 January, 2005 17:20 Subject: Re: [mg-tabc] TA Lube System - summary > Ian, > > What are the two canisters that were bolted to the firewall of my TC? I > am told they are the reservoirs for your oiling system. My car only had > the canisters, none of the tubing you describe. Would there also be > controls fitted in the passenger compartment? > _Peter > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Ian Linton" cars@castle-energy.co.uk> > To: "MG-TABC Group (all)" mg-tabc@yahoogroups.com> > Cc: "Lee Jacobsen" ljacobsen@jacobsenindustries.com>; "Clive Sherriff" > clive.sherriff@ntlworld.com>; "Tom Metcalf" mgtom@zoominternet.net> > Sent: Tuesday, January 18, 2005 9:11 AM > Subject: [mg-tabc] TA Lube System - summary > > >> >> Hi Group, >> >> (Following a recent request for a summary of findings for the >> archive......) >> >> Thanks to all who replied to me on this one. I think with your help and >> some more R&D on my part I've cracked most of the problems. First >> lesson, photograph every detail before dismantling, although in >> mitigation in my case everything was so rusty and crudded up that even >> the photos I did take resemble a very untidy muddy field. >> >> Findings as follows, usual caveats, valid TA 2258 onwards: >> >> 1. Components - a full listing is in the Service Parts List (I have a >> replica bought at a Rebuild) Page 60 for the Grouped Nipple Chassis >> Lubrication System. This gives lengths of 2'10", 5'8" and 8'9" for the >> tubing. >> 2. Tubing - 3/16" x 20 gauge bought from Namrick in Brighton, UK. Two 25 >> foot rolls are more than enough. The outer diameter is within a gnat's >> whisker of the original piping (Clive). The pipe comes with a line of >> black print on it but this comes off with a fierce rubbing using a cloth >> and white spirit. Spare pipe can possibly be used for the carb float >> bowl overflow lines. >> 3. Olives - I have not used as I discovered my pipe flaring kit has a >> 3/16" die which makes ends which suit all the adapters just fine. The >> pipe ends need a little gentle filing or sanding to remove the surface >> marks created in the flaring operation as the original nuts are a tight >> fit on the new tubing. Not strictly original, but invisible when made >> up. >> 4. Oilers - Like Clive I'm missing two, so I have made up substitutes >> (not replicas, but close enough for now) using a plated M8 x 1.0 (= >> Metric Fine) bolt having thread length 1.6 mm, drilled through with 2.5mm >> hole, then counter-drilled similar to an original oiler. This seems to >> work fine, even though the threads seem strange for an MG. The oiler >> threads, securing half nuts, brass nuts etc, clean up nicely with M8 x >> 1.0 taps and dies. I've not fitted grease nipples yet, but note that the >> originals have separate balls and springs inside the adapter body, not >> captive in the grease nipples as more usual nowadays. >> 5. Rear Trunnion elbow - Not available but Tom has converted a modern >> fitting to an excellent replica, although not for sale. I may have a go, >> but for now will connect this line direct to the trunnions (see >> Clausanger Page 20). Again the M8 x 1.0 comes to the rescue as a >> suitable BSF thread can be turned down at one end to give several turns >> to suite the original brass nut. Drilling through will provide the >> required adapter. >> 6. Routing - Sherrell has an illustration on Page 255 which shows a line >> of spare holes which he refers to as "probably pre-war greaser mounts". >> Clausanger has several photos which show parts, Pages 18, 19 and 20. All >> piping goes on the outside of the chassis (thanks Lee). >> >> Hopes the above helps someone else, sorry if I've gone on a bit, or >> appear too much of an anorak. >> >> Also, if anyone out there has two oiler adapters and two elbows going >> spare, then I can offer a good home, and money if you insist........ >> >> Best regards to this magnificent self-help group, >> Ian Linton (TA3120) >> Lewes, East Sussex, UK [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

[Peter Roberts]

----- Original Message ----- From: Peter Roberts To: Ian Linton Sent: Sunday, February 06, 2005 2:19 PM Subject: Re: Canisters on firewall Ian, No manufacturer's name that I can find. When I disassembled the car, I found a bracket adjacent to the steering column. Nothing attached, but it looked like some sort of controls had once been there. Note that the tubes at the bottom of the cannisters have two outlets. I speculate that one of them went to the tubing on the chassis, while the other went to the missing controls. These cannisters have a length of 4 1/2" and a diameter of 1 5/8". They are quite robust. The volume does not seem to support a jacking system. The twin cylinders clearly support a mechanism the fed to the front and the rear independently. While a lubing system is appealing, the only source for lube would be these cylinders. And there doesn't seem to be any convenient way to re-supply. This leaves me with some sort of hydraulic set-up. As the car arrived with tube shocks, is it possible that we are looking at some sort of early ajustable shock set-up? Were any pre-War cars so equipped? _Peter ....I do understand that the TABC list cannot receive the photos. Any interested Lister can get them from me direct. ----- Original Message ----- From: Ian Linton To: Peter Roberts Cc: MG-TABC Group (all) Sent: Sunday, February 06, 2005 1:56 PM Subject: Re: Canisters on firewall Peter, Never seen anything like these before (and your copy to TABC will have removed the attachments). They look like lubricator reservoirs, that maybe drip feed lube oil somewhere, but if memory serves you have a TC so there is no need! Is there any sign of a manufacturer's name stamped on them? Ian Linton TA3120 East Sussex, UK ----- Original Message ----- From: Peter Roberts To: Ian Linton Cc: mg-tabc@yahoogroups.com Sent: 06 February, 2005 18:41 Subject: Re: Canisters on firewall Ian, If that cannister is the reservoir for the Jackall system, then I have a mystery. What on earth is this pair? They were fixed to the firewall with the attached bracket. No tubing ran from them, it had apparently been removed by the P.O. Running along the chassis rails to the front and rear were copper tubing lines, smaller in diameter than fuel line tubing if memory serves, and terminating in "t" cross-pieces with no further connections. The knurled knobs at the top are attached to plungers, similar to the dashpot plungers on the carbs. Does anyone have a clue? _Peter ----- Original Message ----- From: Ian Linton To: Peter Roberts Sent: Sunday, February 06, 2005 10:12 AM Subject: Canisters on firewall Peter, Further to our emails below, I came across this photo I took of a YA at Epsom a couple of years ago. This shows the Jackall canister and the control dial. Not sure what the power source is, though. Regards, Ian Linton TA3120, East Sussex, UK ----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Peter, I believe TCs were provide with at least one oil canister, but it simply spare engine oil. Not sure why you have two. The lube system on late TAs and TBs is simply to direct lube oil (not grease, but similar to rear axle oil) to the trunnions (phosphor bronze bushes) at the rear of the front and rear springs. These were replaced after the war by the hanging bushes using Silentbloc rubber bushes. The best explanation I have heard for this replacement was a shortage of phosphor bronze after the war. Seems plausible. I understand the trunnions hold the springs tighter than the hanging bushes, hence the T-type racers preferring a TA chassis with the much better TC engine. There is also a third oiler for the oil connection on the handbrake. I believe the TC has a local grease nipple for this purpose. There are no controls at all, simply three nipples on each side of the engine compartment leading to the trunnions and handbrake cables. The pipes are very vulnerable to damage and owners often use grease rather than oil, which tends to block the lines over the years. Believe me, you are probably better off without this system, nothing but trouble. It's just that as my TA had it, I feel obliged to restore it. Sometimes your canisters or replicas come up on Ebay. Regards, Ian ----- Original Message ----- From: "Peter Roberts" mgtc@comcast.net> To: "Ian Linton" cars@castle-energy.co.uk> Sent: 19 January, 2005 17:20 Subject: Re: [mg-tabc] TA Lube System - summary > Ian, > > What are the two canisters that were bolted to the firewall of my TC? I > am told they are the reservoirs for your oiling system. My car only had > the canisters, none of the tubing you describe. Would there also be > controls fitted in the passenger compartment? > _Peter > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Ian Linton" cars@castle-energy.co.uk> > To: "MG-TABC Group (all)" mg-tabc@yahoogroups.com> > Cc: "Lee Jacobsen" ljacobsen@jacobsenindustries.com>; "Clive Sherriff" > clive.sherriff@ntlworld.com>; "Tom Metcalf" mgtom@zoominternet.net> > Sent: Tuesday, January 18, 2005 9:11 AM > Subject: [mg-tabc] TA Lube System - summary > > >> >> Hi Group, >> >> (Following a recent request for a summary of findings for the >> archive......) >> >> Thanks to all who replied to me on this one. I think with your help and >> some more R&D on my part I've cracked most of the problems. First >> lesson, photograph every detail before dismantling, although in >> mitigation in my case everything was so rusty and crudded up that even >> the photos I did take resemble a very untidy muddy field. >> >> Findings as follows, usual caveats, valid TA 2258 onwards: >> >> 1. Components - a full listing is in the Service Parts List (I have a >> replica bought at a Rebuild) Page 60 for the Grouped Nipple Chassis >> Lubrication System. This gives lengths of 2'10", 5'8" and 8'9" for the >> tubing. >> 2. Tubing - 3/16" x 20 gauge bought from Namrick in Brighton, UK. Two 25 >> foot rolls are more than enough. The outer diameter is within a gnat's >> whisker of the original piping (Clive). The pipe comes with a line of >> black print on it but this comes off with a fierce rubbing using a cloth >> and white spirit. Spare pipe can possibly be used for the carb float >> bowl overflow lines. >> 3. Olives - I have not used as I discovered my pipe flaring kit has a >> 3/16" die which makes ends which suit all the adapters just fine. The >> pipe ends need a little gentle filing or sanding to remove the surface >> marks created in the flaring operation as the original nuts are a tight >> fit on the new tubing. Not strictly original, but invisible when made >> up. >> 4. Oilers - Like Clive I'm missing two, so I have made up substitutes >> (not replicas, but close enough for now) using a plated M8 x 1.0 (= >> Metric Fine) bolt having thread length 1.6 mm, drilled through with 2.5mm >> hole, then counter-drilled similar to an original oiler. This seems to >> work fine, even though the threads seem strange for an MG. The oiler >> threads, securing half nuts, brass nuts etc, clean up nicely with M8 x >> 1.0 taps and dies. I've not fitted grease nipples yet, but note that the >> originals have separate balls and springs inside the adapter body, not >> captive in the grease nipples as more usual nowadays. >> 5. Rear Trunnion elbow - Not available but Tom has converted a modern >> fitting to an excellent replica, although not for sale. I may have a go, >> but for now will connect this line direct to the trunnions (see >> Clausanger Page 20). Again the M8 x 1.0 comes to the rescue as a >> suitable BSF thread can be turned down at one end to give several turns >> to suite the original brass nut. Drilling through will provide the >> required adapter. >> 6. Routing - Sherrell has an illustration on Page 255 which shows a line >> of spare holes which he refers to as "probably pre-war greaser mounts". >> Clausanger has several photos which show parts, Pages 18, 19 and 20. All >> piping goes on the outside of the chassis (thanks Lee). >> >> Hopes the above helps someone else, sorry if I've gone on a bit, or >> appear too much of an anorak. >> >> Also, if anyone out there has two oiler adapters and two elbows going >> spare, then I can offer a good home, and money if you insist........ >> >> Best regards to this magnificent self-help group, >> Ian Linton (TA3120) >> Lewes, East Sussex, UK [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]