How were our body tubs painted ?

[Clive Sherriff]

OK. I do not recall this ever being a topic, and I do not claim to have the answer. Does anyone? Wings, running boards, petrol tank and valance are easy. They were painted all over then fitted to the already painted body tub. I cannot recall ever seeing period pictures of the paint shop, or of bodies being delivered to the factory. I presume the bodies were delivered to the factory in some standard paint condition. I seem to remember that there were "X" to a crate, and that they seemed ridiculously cheap even by the standards of those days. On the TABCs I've dealt with it would seem that they had been given a "first coat" which seems to have been an all over coat of black, (presumably with a primer first over the metal panels?). This can be still seen for example under the front quarter trim panel by ones knees on some cars. In some cases I have doubt that much the exposed woodwork was painted at all. I've not been aware of seeing any signs of masking off, just limited overspray on areas that would be covered by trim. I would also expect that the TA TB primary finish might be better than at least the early TC finish due to post war shortages and cost cuttings. So that's about all I know, which is rather vague, and which is not very definitive is it ? Who can add more with evidence ? ? ? CliveOxford, UK. PS Here's a definite Paint fact anyway to start us off. The very few cars, 2 TBs and a VA that had metallic paint (called Polychromatic Grey) had plain grey under the winds to simplify touching in paint chips. m mmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmm [img]https://ec.yimg.com/ec?url=https%3A%2F%2Fipmcdn.avast.com%2Fimages%2Ficons%2Ficon-envelope-tick-round-orange-animated-no-repeat-v1.gif&t=1556301625&sig=p95ZYgaq7aUb1BAHVO5NCA--~D[/img] Virus-free. www.avast.com

[Mark M]

This will be an interesting thread.   One thing I noticed on TC8126 when disassembled was the very thin black 'ink-like' paint that had leaked onto the original wood, so I think the idea of a thin black primer sounds correct....   ~Mark TC8126 EXU   Ohio  

----- Original Message ----- [b]From:[/b] csherriff99@gmail.com [mg-tabc] [b]To:[/b] mg-tabc@egroups.com ; mg-tabc@yahoogroups.com [b]Sent:[/b] Wednesday, April 24, 2019 3:08 PM [b]Subject:[/b] [mg-tabc] How were our body tubs painted ?   OK. I do not recall this ever being a topic, and I do not claim to have the answer.  Does anyone?  Wings, running boards, petrol tank and valance are easy.  They were painted all over then fitted to the already painted body tub. I cannot recall ever seeing period pictures of the paint shop, or of bodies being delivered to the factory. I presume the bodies were delivered to the factory in some standard paint condition. I seem to remember that there were "X" to a crate, and that they seemed ridiculously cheap even by the standards of those days. On the TABCs I've dealt with it would seem that they had been given a "first coat" which seems to have been an all over coat of black, (presumably with a primer first over the metal panels?).  This can be still seen for example under the front quarter trim panel by ones knees on some cars. In some cases I have doubt that much the exposed woodwork was painted at all. I've not been aware of seeing any signs of masking off, just limited overspray on areas that would be covered by trim. I would also expect that the TA TB primary finish might be better than at least the early TC finish due to post war shortages and cost cuttings. So that's about all I know, which is rather vague, and which is not very definitive is it ? Who can add more with evidence ? ? ? Clive Oxford, UK. PS Here's a definite Paint fact anyway to start us off.  The very few cars, 2 TBs and a VA that had metallic paint (called Polychromatic Grey) had plain grey under the winds to simplify touching in paint chips. m mmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmm [img]https://ec.yimg.com/ec?url=https%3A%2F%2Fipmcdn.avast.com%2Fimages%2Ficons%2Ficon-envelope-tick-round-orange-animated-no-repeat-v1.gif&t=1556301625&sig=p95ZYgaq7aUb1BAHVO5NCA--~D[/img] Virus-free. www.avast.com

[Joe Curto]

Sounds like a question for Tom Wilson  Tom can you help?? -----Original Message----- From: 'Mark M' tc8126@earthlink.net [mg-tabc] mg-tabc-noreply@yahoogroups.com> To: MGTABC mg-tabc@egroups.com>; yahoogroups mg-tabc@yahoogroups.com> Sent: Wed, Apr 24, 2019 4:49 pm Subject: Re: [mg-tabc] How were our body tubs painted ?   This will be an interesting thread.   One thing I noticed on TC8126 when disassembled was the very thin black 'ink-like' paint that had leaked onto the original wood, so I think the idea of a thin black primer sounds correct....   ~Mark TC8126 EXU   Ohio  

----- Original Message ----- [b]From:[/b] mg-tabc-noreply@yahoogroups.com">CLIVE SHERRIFF csherriff99@gmail.com [mg-tabc] [b]To:[/b] mg-tabc@egroups.com">MGTABC ; mg-tabc@yahoogroups.com">yahoogroups [b]Sent:[/b] Wednesday, April 24, 2019 3:08 PM [b]Subject:[/b] [mg-tabc] How were our body tubs painted ?   OK. I do not recall this ever being a topic, and I do not claim to have the answer.  Does anyone?  Wings, running boards, petrol tank and valance are easy.  They were painted all over then fitted to the already painted body tub. I cannot recall ever seeing period pictures of the paint shop, or of bodies being delivered to the factory. I presume the bodies were delivered to the factory in some standard paint condition. I seem to remember that there were "X" to a crate, and that they seemed ridiculously cheap even by the standards of those days. On the TABCs I've dealt with it would seem that they had been given a "first coat" which seems to have been an all over coat of black, (presumably with a primer first over the metal panels?).  This can be still seen for example under the front quarter trim panel by ones knees on some cars. In some cases I have doubt that much the exposed woodwork was painted at all. I've not been aware of seeing any signs of masking off, just limited overspray on areas that would be covered by trim. I would also expect that the TA TB primary finish might be better than at least the early TC finish due to post war shortages and cost cuttings. So that's about all I know, which is rather vague, and which is not very definitive is it ? Who can add more with evidence ? ? ? Clive Oxford, UK. PS Here's a definite Paint fact anyway to start us off.  The very few cars, 2 TBs and a VA that had metallic paint (called Polychromatic Grey) had plain grey under the winds to simplify touching in paint chips. m mmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmm [img]https://ec.yimg.com/ec?url=https%3A%2F% ... VO5NCA--~D[/img]Virus-free. www.avast.com

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[Tim Bloomfield]

Clive, very good question.  I have dismantled the TB and am just beginning its restoration.  This is what I found: the inside of the scuttle and inside the semi-vertical toe board and underneath the cowl were painted a silver grey.  Is this the polychromatic grey you referred to?  This grey looked to be brushed on, not sprayed on.  When I pulled the panels apart, the grey did not extend to the ends of the panel nor under any of the front scuttle to cowl wood. To add to question of black primer on wood: were the wood pieces that make up the tub individually painted (stained) then assembled or was the tub assembled then given a quick primer coat of black?  If the latter, were the tub body panels installed (cowl, front and rear quarter panels) then primered in black? To have a go at answering: it appears the tub would have been delivered with body panels installed and painted all in one go with black primer.  The rear quarters appear to have had a light black primer on the inside that would end up against wood. Regards,Tim BloomfieldTB0613Louisiana Sent from Yahoo Mail for iPad

On Wednesday, April 24, 2019, 3:53 PM, Joe Curto joecurto@aol.com [mg-tabc] mg-tabc-noreply@yahoogroups.com> wrote:

  Sounds like a question for Tom Wilson  Tom can you help?? -----Original Message----- From: 'Mark M' tc8126@earthlink.net [mg-tabc] mg-tabc-noreply@yahoogroups.com> To: MGTABC mg-tabc@egroups.com>; yahoogroups Sent: Wed, Apr 24, 2019 4:49 pm Subject: Re: [mg-tabc] How were our body tubs painted ?   This will be an interesting thread.   One thing I noticed on TC8126 when disassembled was the very thin black 'ink-like' paint that had leaked onto the original wood, so I think the idea of a thin black primer sounds correct....   ~Mark TC8126 EXU   Ohio   ----- Original Message ----- [b]From:[/b] mg-tabc-noreply@yahoogroups.com">CLIVE SHERRIFF csherriff99@gmail.com [mg-tabc] [b]To:[/b] mg-tabc@egroups.com">MGTABC ; mg-tabc@yahoogroups.com">yahoogroups [b]Sent:[/b] Wednesday, April 24, 2019 3:08 PM [b]Subject:[/b] [mg-tabc] How were our body tubs painted ?   OK. I do not recall this ever being a topic, and I do not claim to have the answer.  Does anyone?  Wings, running boards, petrol tank and valance are easy.  They were painted all over then fitted to the already painted body tub. I cannot recall ever seeing period pictures of the paint shop, or of bodies being delivered to the factory. I presume the bodies were delivered to the factory in some standard paint condition. I seem to remember that there were "X" to a crate, and that they seemed ridiculously cheap even by the standards of those days. On the TABCs I've dealt with it would seem that they had been given a "first coat" which seems to have been an all over coat of black, (presumably with a primer first over the metal panels?).  This can be still seen for example under the front quarter trim panel by ones knees on some cars. In some cases I have doubt that much the exposed woodwork was painted at all. I've not been aware of seeing any signs of masking off, just limited overspray on areas that would be covered by trim. I would also expect that the TA TB primary finish might be better than at least the early TC finish due to post war shortages and cost cuttings. So that's about all I know, which is rather vague, and which is not very definitive is it ? Who can add more with evidence ? ? ? Clive Oxford, UK. PS Here's a definite Paint fact anyway to start us off.  The very few cars, 2 TBs and a VA that had metallic paint (called Polychromatic Grey) had plain grey under the winds to simplify touching in paint chips. m mmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmm [img]https://ec.yimg.com/ec?url=https%3A%2F% ... CWDiIw--~D[/img]Virus-free. www.avast.com

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[motionwear]

Painting of tubs and other parts. This is what I think happened based on my research.  I have yet to find enough factory documentation to support this for the prewar years (TA/TB), but it s likely that the process was the same. Tubs (aka bodies) were built, finished, and trimmed at Bodies Branch, a Morris Motors Company, and delivered to Abingdon.  Peter Ross told me a story of standing in his front yard and seeing lorries of MG bodies go by on their way to MG from Coventry. I have several photos of the TD tub assembly line with finished but unpainted TC tubs in the background.  These photos, along with some common sense, help define the process. Some of the tub wood was pre-stained or painted, and some was raw.  The side curtain box and top of dash/scuttle area were consistently black, while the lower pieces were raw.  Sheet metal was painted black on the inside surfaces, while outside surfaces are unpainted.  Heavier metal (body frame set, crossbrace, scuttle brackets, etc.) were painted black. Tubs were built in a subassembly process.  There were jigs used to assemble different sections of the tub.  These subassemblies were then placed into a jig to accurately assemble them into a tub.  At the bottom of this was an angle iron sled with legs it served as a slave chassis the tub was attached to from the beginning all the way to the top deck at MG where tubs were unbolted from it and dropped down onto the waiting chassis at the beginning of the body track. Once the wood/metal tub skeleton was built the front of the jig was opened and the tub on its slave chassis was pushed down the track to the next station.  This is where sheet metal was attached, and I think there were 2 or 3 stations where this occurred.  A completed tub (skinned with doors attached) went to paint next.  Prep, priming, blocking as appropriate, final paint was all done here.  I believe there was probably some variation on how much painting and overspray happened on the inside of the tubs.  As the workers were on a timed rate it s unlikely they would spend extra effort at painting the insides.  [note my brother in law Brett, a noted Porsche historian and expert, has shown me film and told me stories about 911s being built in the late 60s with body panels left raw/unpainted on the inside]. So to make a short story endless some of the tub wood was stained/painted black using a turpentine based material.  Most if not all of the sheet metal was primed on the inside  before attaching to the wood tub. The 'non-tub' body parts - wings, running boards, bonnet, front apron, fuel tank, spare tyre carrier, and bulkhead (bulkhead up to about TC5000) were all painted at MG in the paint shop.

Tom Wilson