Waxoyl

[Bill Hyatt]

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/WaxoylDave:Waxoyl suggests to be a Waterproofing product. Really it is just a rust resisting, water resisting coating that protects ferrous metals & or whatever it coats for service life of coating. Not unlike paint, plating, etc, protection only lasts as protective coating in not compromised. Securing a fastener long term in wood  recognizes that it is the wood fibers must be isolated from metal moisture sweat contact to protect fibers from intruding moisture necessary to provide a growth of wood rot spores. Once the Waxoyl is wiped off of as fastener is installed, its surface coating  is is driven into wood, ensuing minimal Waxoyl surface protection from sweat moisture & moisture will start to oxidize fastener & provide a growth medium for fungi spores.  Protecting the fastener with whatever finish, does not provide wood fibers from long term, maintenance free protection due to moisture intrusion.  Previous to idea of protecting protecting wood fibers by setting fasteners in epoxy, the mainstream solution was to set faster end in screw holes saturated with varnish (akin to using Waxoyl) via dipping screw in varnish or wiping hole with varnish saturated pipe cleaner several times. Worked OK, but epoxy method is better. I see that I managed to omit crucial step in methodology to extra securely retain fasteners exposed to extra high loads. After oversizing fastener by~ 3x fastener dia. fill o/s hole with Cab-o-Sil loaded slurry of epoxy, then insert fastener into slurry. Slurry will cast around fastener & bond to x-large I.D. circumference (annulus) of oversize hole. This extra epoxy bonding surface dramatically increases holding power of fastener especially in soft woods. It also contributed to resurgence of wood boat building industry by allowing screw fasteners to be used where bolts were inaccessible. Also, by coating all wood boat surfaces with several layers of epoxy, this insured protection against fungi spores, borer worms, etc. , w/o copper cladding, or antifouling paints to hull. WSH I hope you -Bill HyattSent from my iPhone

[David Lodge]

Thanks for t[i]hat, Bill. [/i][i]Actually I was aware of much of that as I get a magazine every so often from the West Epoxy Systems Group. I've no idea why, as I'm not a yachtsman so I read it and pass it on to a good friend who is. [/i]

On Thu, 28 Mar 2019 at 07:23, Bill Hyatt usaj24@earthlink.net> wrote: https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/WaxoylDave:Waxoyl suggests to be a Waterproofing product. Really it is just a rust resisting, water resisting coating that protects ferrous metals & or whatever it coats for service life of coating. Not unlike paint, plating, etc, protection only lasts as protective coating in not compromised. Securing a fastener long term in wood recognizes that it is the wood fibers must be isolated from metal moisture sweat contact to protect fibers from intruding moisture necessary to provide a growth of wood rot spores. Once the Waxoyl is wiped off of as fastener is installed, its surface coating is is driven into wood, ensuing minimal Waxoyl surface protection from sweat moisture & moisture will start to oxidize fastener & provide a growth medium for fungi spores. Protecting the fastener with whatever finish, does not provide wood fibers from long term, maintenance free protection due to moisture intrusion. Previous to idea of protecting protecting wood fibers by setting fasteners in epoxy, the mainstream solution was to set faster end in screw holes saturated with varnish (akin to using Waxoyl) via dipping screw in varnish or wiping hole with varnish saturated pipe cleaner several times. Worked OK, but epoxy method is better. I see that I managed to omit crucial step in methodology to extra securely retain fasteners exposed to extra high loads. After oversizing fastener by~ 3x fastener dia. fill o/s hole with Cab-o-Sil loaded slurry of epoxy, then insert fastener into slurry. Slurry will cast around fastener & bond to x-large I.D. circumference (annulus) of oversize hole. This extra epoxy bonding surface dramatically increases holding power of fastener especially in soft woods. It also contributed to resurgence of wood boat building industry by allowing screw fasteners to be used where bolts were inaccessible. Also, by coating all wood boat surfaces with several layers of epoxy, this insured protection against fungi spores, borer worms, etc. , w/o copper cladding, or antifouling paints to hull. WSH I hope you -Bill HyattSent from my iPhone

[Roger Bateman]

When I worked for a vintage Bentley restorer, the carpenter who made new ash frames for the cars always used slotted woodscrews in a pilot hole for originality and, crucially, dipped them in grease before insertion. This enabled them to be screwed in more easily and possibly delayed them rusting for a few decades. Roger Bateman Dorset UK (and sunny today)

[Clive Sherriff]

Roger, Carpenters and joiners traditionally use candle wax on the screws. Not so much to help preserve the screws, but to make it much easier to screw the screws in tightly without splitting the grain. This was also the method used by traditional coach builders. I suspect that your man found it easier to find a tin of grease than a candle in a Bentley workshop. Oddly oil or grease does not help very much with screwing the screws into wood, and either would quite quickly flow through the wood grain, be dispersed and absorbed. The candle wax or tallow however would remain around the wood/screw interface for many years. For dry indoor work a bar of traditional soap can have the same properties to ease screwing in. CliveOxford, UK m mmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmm [img]https://ec.yimg.com/ec?url=https%3A%2F%2Fipmcdn.avast.com%2Fimages%2Ficons%2Ficon-envelope-tick-round-orange-animated-no-repeat-v1.gif&t=1555524515&sig=k_c4Ei6o9oLT_ZxLZ1SPEA--~D[/img] Virus-free. www.avast.com

On Thu, 28 Mar 2019 at 18:27, Roger Bateman rogerbateman@rocketmail.com [mg-tabc] mg-tabc-noreply@yahoogroups.com> wrote: [u][/u] When I worked for a vintage Bentley restorer, the carpenter who made new ash frames for the cars always used slotted woodscrews in a pilot hole for originality and, crucially, dipped them in grease before insertion. This enabled them to be screwed in more easily and possibly delayed them rusting for a few decades. Roger Bateman Dorset UK (and sunny today)

[img]https://ec.yimg.com/ec?url=https%3A%2F%2Fipmcdn.avast.com%2Fimages%2Ficons%2Ficon-envelope-tick-round-orange-animated-no-repeat-v1.gif&t=1555524515&sig=k_c4Ei6o9oLT_ZxLZ1SPEA--~D[/img] Virus-free. www.avast.com

[John Boocock]

When I was at school we were always told to use beeswax on the screws to aid assembly, so that is what I am using on my TC tub. It also makes it much easier to remove the screws when adjustment of the woodwork is required.JohnTc 3621 Sent from my iPhone

On 28 Mar 2019, at 22:00, CLIVE SHERRIFF csherriff99@gmail.com [mg-tabc] mg-tabc-noreply@yahoogroups.com> wrote:

  Roger,  Carpenters and joiners traditionally use candle wax on the screws. Not so much to help preserve the screws, but to make it much easier to screw the screws in tightly without splitting the grain.  This was also the method used by traditional coach builders.  I suspect that your man found it easier to find a tin of grease than a candle in a Bentley workshop.  Oddly oil or grease does not help very much with screwing the screws into wood, and either would quite quickly flow through the wood grain, be dispersed and absorbed.  The candle wax or tallow however would remain around the wood/screw interface for many years.  For dry indoor work a bar of traditional soap can have the same properties to ease screwing in. CliveOxford, UK m mmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmm [img]https://ec.yimg.com/ec?url=https%3A%2F%2Fipmcdn.avast.com%2Fimages%2Ficons%2Ficon-envelope-tick-round-orange-animated-no-repeat-v1.gif&t=1555524515&sig=k_c4Ei6o9oLT_ZxLZ1SPEA--~D[/img] Virus-free. www.avast.com On Thu, 28 Mar 2019 at 18:27, Roger Bateman rogerbateman@rocketmail.com [mg-tabc] mg-tabc-noreply@yahoogroups.com> wrote: [u][/u]   When I worked for a vintage Bentley restorer, the carpenter who made new ash frames for the cars always used slotted woodscrews in a pilot hole for originality and, crucially, dipped them in grease before insertion. This enabled them to be screwed in more easily and possibly delayed them rusting for a few decades. Roger Bateman Dorset UK (and sunny today) [img]https://ec.yimg.com/ec?url=https%3A%2F%2Fipmcdn.avast.com%2Fimages%2Ficons%2Ficon-envelope-tick-round-orange-animated-no-repeat-v1.gif&t=1555524515&sig=k_c4Ei6o9oLT_ZxLZ1SPEA--~D[/img] Virus-free. www.avast.com

[Bill Hyatt]

Agree with Clive, common practice with pro wooden boat builders/carpenters & others  who shunned nails, traditionally applied bar soap on fastener threads. This cut applied torque needed to set screw very substantially, especially  with large screws in hardwoods where was easy to shear fastener before fully setting. In many cases this also alleviated need for pilot holes normally necessary to prevent splitting wood. -Bill HyattSent from my iPhone

On Mar 28, 2019, at 6:26 PM, John Boocock johnboocock2@gmail.com [mg-tabc] mg-tabc-noreply@yahoogroups.com> wrote:

  When I was at school we were always told to use beeswax on the screws to aid assembly, so that is what I am using on my TC tub. It also makes it much easier to remove the screws when adjustment of the woodwork is required.JohnTc 3621 Sent from my iPhone On 28 Mar 2019, at 22:00, CLIVE SHERRIFF csherriff99@gmail.com [mg-tabc] mg-tabc-noreply@yahoogroups.com> wrote:   Roger,  Carpenters and joiners traditionally use candle wax on the screws. Not so much to help preserve the screws, but to make it much easier to screw the screws in tightly without splitting the grain.  This was also the method used by traditional coach builders.  I suspect that your man found it easier to find a tin of grease than a candle in a Bentley workshop.  Oddly oil or grease does not help very much with screwing the screws into wood, and either would quite quickly flow through the wood grain, be dispersed and absorbed.  The candle wax or tallow however would remain around the wood/screw interface for many years.  For dry indoor work a bar of traditional soap can have the same properties to ease screwing in. CliveOxford, UK m mmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmm [img]https://ec.yimg.com/ec?url=https%3A%2F%2Fipmcdn.avast.com%2Fimages%2Ficons%2Ficon-envelope-tick-round-orange-animated-no-repeat-v1.gif&t=1555524515&sig=k_c4Ei6o9oLT_ZxLZ1SPEA--~D[/img] Virus-free. www.avast.com On Thu, 28 Mar 2019 at 18:27, Roger Bateman rogerbateman@rocketmail.com [mg-tabc] mg-tabc-noreply@yahoogroups.com> wrote: [u][/u]   When I worked for a vintage Bentley restorer, the carpenter who made new ash frames for the cars always used slotted woodscrews in a pilot hole for originality and, crucially, dipped them in grease before insertion. This enabled them to be screwed in more easily and possibly delayed them rusting for a few decades. Roger Bateman Dorset UK (and sunny today) [img]https://ec.yimg.com/ec?url=https%3A%2F%2Fipmcdn.avast.com%2Fimages%2Ficons%2Ficon-envelope-tick-round-orange-animated-no-repeat-v1.gif&t=1555524515&sig=k_c4Ei6o9oLT_ZxLZ1SPEA--~D[/img] Virus-free. www.avast.com