Re: Front lipseal Cankshaft sprocket/oil pan/front timing gear cover

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hughpite
Posts: 5
Joined: Thu Nov 22, 2012 9:14 am

Re: Front lipseal Cankshaft sprocket/oil pan/front timing gear cover

Post by hughpite » Wed Oct 11, 2017 1:46 pm

[b]I may be missing something here but I'm sure the seal runs on the crankshaft pulley and not the sprocket.  Also are you sure you have the crankshaft sprocket the right way around?[/b] [b]        Hugh Pite[/b]  
----- Original Message ----- [b]From:[/b] imabystander@yahoo.com [mg-tabc] [b]To:[/b] mg-tabc@yahoogroups.com [b]Sent:[/b] Wednesday, October 11, 2017 1:33 PM [b]Subject:[/b] [mg-tabc] Front lipseal Cankshaft sprocket/oil pan/front timing gear cover....   Hello all: I am getting ready to put the front end rebuild on TC 5141 engine. The crankshaft and Camshaft sprockets are original and well worn so am replacing those with the Moss offering from their supplier (County) in England. The issue I have is that the modern lip seal Moss sells for the XPAG (120-750) which is made by SKF (p/n14005) is for a 36mm x 47mm x 7mm application. The flange diameter on the original TC XPAG Crankshaft gear and the Moss aftermarket (433-440) is 1.496"/1.500" or 38mm. While you can force the sprocket into the 36mm seal and assemble the engine that way. Logic says the seal will soon self destruct due to the extreme compression being exerted and the heat generated as well on it. (Free lip diameter is 1.357") In reading through some TD/TF blogs I'm wondering if the XPAG crankshaft sprocket changed to a 35mm or 36mm diameter on the later engines because some of those boys were talking about having to machine sprocket hubs down and using Volvo double lip 35mm x 47mm x 7mm seals instead of the Moss seal. My research has yielded a couple of seals that will work for the 38mm diameter sprocket shaft. One is SKF #14695 double lip Nitrile seal or the Federal Mogul #223805 double lip Nitrile seal. Both are 38mm x 47mm x 7mm. Both are readily available from the usual sources. In reading through this thread and a few others, I'm wondering if some other TC owners have experienced early leakage after an overhaul by using the apparently undersized Moss seal #120-750? Unless someone gives me really good reason to do otherwise, I'm going to use the 38mm seal.   Moss has a pdf document that pops up with the (120-750) seal selection in their catalog but they say nothing about size or resizing.   Comments are solicited..  Thank you in advance  (This may be a duplicated message, if so,  Sorry....) Marv TC5141

[img]https://ec.yimg.com/ec?url=https%3A%2F%2Fipmcdn.avast.com%2Fimages%2Ficons%2Ficon-envelope-tick-green-avg-v1.png&t=1522511820&sig=d37qqxavWCrlCNtBGUGIQg--~D[/img] Virus-free. www.avg.com

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M. P.
Posts: 23
Joined: Wed Oct 14, 2015 9:50 pm

Re: Front lipseal Cankshaft sprocket/oil pan/front timing gear cover

Post by M. P. » Wed Oct 11, 2017 2:53 pm

Probably have had my head up my backside moment Hugh,  Nothing is installed yet....  Thanks On Wednesday, October 11, 2017 3:46 PM, "jenntoo@shaw.ca [mg-tabc]" mg-tabc-noreply@yahoogroups.com> wrote:   [b]I may be missing something here but I'm sure the seal runs on the crankshaft pulley and not the sprocket.  Also are you sure you have the crankshaft sprocket the right way around?[/b] [b]        Hugh Pite[/b]  
----- Original Message ----- [b]From:[/b] imabystander@yahoo.com%20[mg-tabc] [b]To:[/b] mg-tabc@yahoogroups.com [b]Sent:[/b] Wednesday, October 11, 2017 1:33 PM [b]Subject:[/b] [mg-tabc] Front lipseal Cankshaft sprocket/oil pan/front timing gear cover....   Hello all: I am getting ready to put the front end rebuild on TC 5141 engine. The crankshaft and Camshaft sprockets are original and well worn so am replacing those with the Moss offering from their supplier (County) in England. The issue I have is that the modern lip seal Moss sells for the XPAG (120-750) which is made by SKF (p/n14005) is for a 36mm x 47mm x 7mm application. The flange diameter on the original TC XPAG Crankshaft gear and the Moss aftermarket (433-440) is 1.496"/1.500" or 38mm. While you can force the sprocket into the 36mm seal and assemble the engine that way. Logic says the seal will soon self destruct due to the extreme compression being exerted and the heat generated as well on it. (Free lip diameter is 1.357") In reading through some TD/TF blogs I'm wondering if the XPAG crankshaft sprocket changed to a 35mm or 36mm diameter on the later engines because some of those boys were talking about having to machine sprocket hubs down and using Volvo double lip 35mm x 47mm x 7mm seals instead of the Moss seal. My research has yielded a couple of seals that will work for the 38mm diameter sprocket shaft. One is SKF #14695 double lip Nitrile seal or the Federal Mogul #223805 double lip Nitrile seal. Both are 38mm x 47mm x 7mm. Both are readily available from the usual sources. In reading through this thread and a few others, I'm wondering if some other TC owners have experienced early leakage after an overhaul by using the apparently undersized Moss seal #120-750? Unless someone gives me really good reason to do otherwise, I'm going to use the 38mm seal.   Moss has a pdf document that pops up with the (120-750) seal selection in their catalog but they say nothing about size or resizing.   Comments are solicited..  Thank you in advance  (This may be a duplicated message, if so,  Sorry....) Marv TC5141 [img]https://ec.yimg.com/ec?url=https%3A%2F%2Fipmcdn.avast.com%2Fimages%2Ficons%2Ficon-envelope-tick-green-avg-v1.png&t=1522511820&sig=d37qqxavWCrlCNtBGUGIQg--~D[/img]Virus-free. www.avg.com
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Gene Gillam
Posts: 215
Joined: Tue Feb 01, 2000 4:09 pm

Re: Front lipseal Cankshaft sprocket/oil pan/front timing gear cover

Post by Gene Gillam » Wed Oct 11, 2017 3:35 pm

Hugh writes:[b]I may be missing something here but I'm sure the seal runs on the crankshaft pulley and not the sprocket.  Also are you sure you have the crankshaft sprocket the right way around[/b] Hugh, you re correct.  The seal fits in the timing chain cover (replacing the lip seal) and rides on the inner surface of the crank pulley. Gene GillamSaucier, MS
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M. P.
Posts: 23
Joined: Wed Oct 14, 2015 9:50 pm

Re: Front lipseal Cankshaft sprocket/oil pan/front timing gear cover

Post by M. P. » Wed Oct 11, 2017 3:41 pm

I had a Brain Fart guys,  Hardware laid out on bench  just put my head up a dark hole for a moment...   Marv On Wednesday, October 11, 2017 5:35 PM, "Gene Gillam anngene@bellsouth.net [mg-tabc]" mg-tabc-noreply@yahoogroups.com> wrote:   Hugh writes:[b]I may be missing something here but I'm sure the seal runs on the crankshaft pulley and not the sprocket.  Also are you sure you have the crankshaft sprocket the right way around[/b] Hugh, you re correct.  The seal fits in the timing chain cover (replacing the lip seal) and rides on the inner surface of the crank pulley. Gene GillamSaucier, MS
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