Concours Standards

[Martin Johnson]

Hi Kids Are published concours standards for the TC available? Is it one international standard, or is it regional? "TC's Forever" is very informative, but I'd like to know stuff like whether certain nuts, bolts, clips are cad plated, painted, etc. Am I an Originality Cop? Heck no- I just like to restore my car correctly so that any of you looking at it will be impressed with its correctness. Thanks! Martin Johnson TC3586

[Badger]

----- Original Message ----- "Hi Kids Are published concours standards for the TC available? Is it one international standard, or is it regional?..............." Martin Johnson TC3586 Keith Martin, editor of Sports Car Market has much to say in the July issue of his excellent magazine regarding "internationally accepted standards" of restoration. I will quote a portion of Mr. Martin's editorial. ".......... For example, an American restoration generally includes a chromed gas tank and a car that breaks down 50 feet into the Mille Miglia. A Japanese restoration will feature stunning paint, a perfect interior, and a highly detailed engine that's missing its crankshaft. An English restoration is a pile of rusty bits, slathered with bondo, painted with a broad brush, and topped off with a British Heritage Trust Certificate. And an Italian restoration begins with a scrap of metal from a hidden Swiss junkyard, often containing the chassis number of a missing Ferrari or Alfa competition car of the '50s and '60s. After a liberal sprinkling of large-denomination Euros, suddenly a complete car appears, which is then smeared with instant patina". In short, there are no standards. A "restoration" is what you think it should be and what your buddies think it should be as is amply demonstrated by the wide range of opinions expressed within the small framework of this odd little group. Only bear in mind that there is no such thing as an "original restoration". Your car is either original or it is restored - it can't be both. A totally original car retains the paint, upholstery, and everything else that it left the factory with. A "sympathetic restoration" is one that retains as much as possible of a car's originality and seeks to refurbish only the minimum necessary to keep the car trim and roadworthy and only to the original standard. A "full restoration" is to be avoided and should only be a last resort due to its highly invasive and historically destructive nature to be visited only upon cars that have been so ravaged by time and use that no part of their originality can be salvaged. I shall endeavor to refrain from any comments regarding the installation of various Datsun, Chevrolet, Volkswagen, Nash, Kelvinator, Hoover, spaniel, dachshund, Boeing, or any other odd bits which an owner may decide needs to be attached to his MG. Squire Badger

[Ray]

Hey!! What's wrong with the J 79 (with afterburner) that we put in the TC racer?? The guys at the drag strip love the "patina" it leaves behind........ Best, Ray

----- Original Message ----- From: "BADGER" mrbadger@cox.net> To: "MG-TABC" mg-tabc@yahoogroups.com> Sent: Tuesday, July 16, 2002 2:27 PM Subject: Re: [mg-tabc] Concours Standards > ----- Original Message ----- > "Hi Kids > Are published concours standards for the TC available? Is it one > international standard, or is it regional?..............." > Martin Johnson > TC3586 > > Keith Martin, editor of Sports Car Market has much to say in the July issue > of his excellent magazine regarding "internationally accepted standards" of > restoration. I will quote a portion of Mr. Martin's editorial. ".......... > For example, an American restoration generally includes a chromed gas tank > and a car that breaks down 50 feet into the Mille Miglia. A Japanese > restoration will feature stunning paint, a perfect interior, and a highly > detailed engine that's missing its crankshaft. An English restoration is a > pile of rusty bits, slathered with bondo, painted with a broad brush, and > topped off with a British Heritage Trust Certificate. And an Italian > restoration begins with a scrap of metal from a hidden Swiss junkyard, often > containing the chassis number of a missing Ferrari or Alfa competition car > of the '50s and '60s. After a liberal sprinkling of large-denomination > Euros, suddenly a complete car appears, which is then smeared with instant > patina". > In short, there are no standards. A "restoration" is what you think it > should be and what your buddies think it should be as is amply demonstrated > by the wide range of opinions expressed within the small framework of this > odd little group. Only bear in mind that there is no such thing as an > "original restoration". Your car is either original or it is restored - it > can't be both. A totally original car retains the paint, upholstery, and > everything else that it left the factory with. A "sympathetic restoration" > is one that retains as much as possible of a car's originality and seeks to > refurbish only the minimum necessary to keep the car trim and roadworthy and > only to the original standard. A "full restoration" is to be avoided and > should only be a last resort due to its highly invasive and historically > destructive nature to be visited only upon cars that have been so ravaged by > time and use that no part of their originality can be salvaged. > I shall endeavor to refrain from any comments regarding the installation of > various Datsun, Chevrolet, Volkswagen, Nash, Kelvinator, Hoover, spaniel, > dachshund, Boeing, or any other odd bits which an owner may decide needs to > be attached to his MG. > Squire Badger > > > > > > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ > >

[Martin Johnson]

Thanks Carl, Badger et al. You guys answered my questions. Martin -----Original Message----- From: cederstrand@earthlink.net [mailto:cederstrand@earthlink.net] Sent: Tuesday, July 16, 2002 1:20 PM To: Martin Johnson Subject: Concours Standards Hello Martin, On the West Coast, all judging at T-Series events is done by popular choice by the attendees. You make a mountain out of a mole hill. Have a beautiful paint job (original color not required), a clean engine compartment and shiny instrumernts and you're there. Besides, at T-Series events, held by T owners, most of the 'judges' will be TD and TF owners. They couldn't care less about the shape of an original acorn nut on the 46 TC as compared to one from a 47 TC. Most T-Series owners are more inpressed by TCs (goes for all T-Series) that are driven than by trailer queens. Carl Cederstrand / Orange, California .

[R. Zwart]

I accept most of what you said, BUT my M Type had a diagonally cut 5 gallon can for a 'boat tail' when the original wooden body must have been bashed in. The instruments were Triumph and Stewart Warner hand painted dials. The yellow paint was not quite what the factory meant when they wrote in longhand on the Build Sheet, "BLUE" ...... The serial number was some long involved series of numbers assigned by the Department of Motor Vehicles, when they couldn't or wouldn't look in the proper place for the samped number on the frame horn... Since it is one of the first to come to the USA, as a new car, I felt it should be restored as original "as it was built" as possible.......... This took ten years......... I looked at your "odd bits" and agreed until you got to "BOEING" That cut deep into my past, as I worked for them(McDonnell Douglas). Whatever they make that could be added to an MG MUST be good........... Maybe the cars would fly?????? How about a Supersonic MG? You know MGs have wings..... HA! Gotchya! BOB BADGER wrote:

> ----- Original Message ----- > "Hi Kids > Are published concours standards for the TC available? Is it one > international standard, or is it regional?..............." > Martin Johnson > TC3586 > > Keith Martin, editor of Sports Car Market has much to say in the July issue > of his excellent magazine regarding "internationally accepted standards" of > restoration. I will quote a portion of Mr. Martin's editorial. ".......... > For example, an American restoration generally includes a chromed gas tank > and a car that breaks down 50 feet into the Mille Miglia. A Japanese > restoration will feature stunning paint, a perfect interior, and a highly > detailed engine that's missing its crankshaft. An English restoration is a > pile of rusty bits, slathered with bondo, painted with a broad brush, and > topped off with a British Heritage Trust Certificate. And an Italian > restoration begins with a scrap of metal from a hidden Swiss junkyard, often > containing the chassis number of a missing Ferrari or Alfa competition car > of the '50s and '60s. After a liberal sprinkling of large-denomination > Euros, suddenly a complete car appears, which is then smeared with instant > patina". > In short, there are no standards. A "restoration" is what you think it > should be and what your buddies think it should be as is amply demonstrated > by the wide range of opinions expressed within the small framework of this > odd little group. Only bear in mind that there is no such thing as an > "original restoration". Your car is either original or it is restored - it > can't be both. A totally original car retains the paint, upholstery, and > everything else that it left the factory with. A "sympathetic restoration" > is one that retains as much as possible of a car's originality and seeks to > refurbish only the minimum necessary to keep the car trim and roadworthy and > only to the original standard. A "full restoration" is to be avoided and > should only be a last resort due to its highly invasive and historically > destructive nature to be visited only upon cars that have been so ravaged by > time and use that no part of their originality can be salvaged. > I shall endeavor to refrain from any comments regarding the installation of > various Datsun, Chevrolet, Volkswagen, Nash, Kelvinator, Hoover, spaniel, > dachshund, Boeing, or any other odd bits which an owner may decide needs to > be attached to his MG. > Squire Badger > > > > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/

[R. Zwart]

How come the beautiful paint job ( with all four wings painted the same color, not primer) and the aligned screw slots, no Phillips heads on the older models, shiny chrome on places that were never chromed, and the neatly laid out tool set, folded crocheted suede gloves on the steering wheel, win the top prizes ??????????? I won't mention the at least three different Whitworth hex heads for bolts that show up(then there is the chrome versus nickel, versus cadmium, versus galvanized bolt heads)(whoops! painted also, AND, ............no finish!) BOB(out West) Martin Johnson wrote:

> Thanks Carl, Badger et al. > You guys answered my questions. > Martin > > -----Original Message----- > From: cederstrand@earthlink.net [mailto:cederstrand@earthlink.net] > Sent: Tuesday, July 16, 2002 1:20 PM > To: Martin Johnson > Subject: Concours Standards > > Hello Martin, > > On the West Coast, all judging at T-Series events is done by popular choice > by the attendees. You make a mountain out of a mole hill. Have a > beautiful paint job (original color not required), a clean engine > compartment and shiny instrumernts and you're there. Besides, at T-Series > events, held by T owners, most of the 'judges' will be TD and TF owners. > They couldn't care less about the shape of an original acorn nut on the 46 > TC as compared to one from a 47 TC. > > Most T-Series owners are more inpressed by TCs (goes for all T-Series) that > are driven than by trailer queens. > > Carl Cederstrand / Orange, California > > . > > > > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/

[Roger Furneaux]

>Are published concours standards for the TC available? Is it one

international standard, or is it regional?..............."

>Martin Johnson >Keith Martin, editor of Sports Car Market has much to say in the July issue

of his excellent magazine regarding

> "internationally accepted standards" of restoration. I will quote a

portion of Mr. Martin's editorial. "..........

>And an Italian restoration begins with a scrap of metal from a hidden Swiss

junkyard, often containing the

> chassis number of a missing Ferrari or Alfa competition car of the '50s

and '60s. After a liberal sprinkling of

> large-denomination Euros, suddenly a complete car appears, which is then

smeared with instant patina". This actually happened: a Cobra crashed out on an Alpine hairpin and was reduced to a smoldering wreck. The car was rebuilt around the only remaining usable part - the chassis i.d. plate. As to concours TCs, there will never be one standard, all our cars are unoriginal now in various respects, and concours cars cannot be used as Abingdon intended. The only "concours" cars I will enjoy looking at this coming Sunday at Silverstone are the ones in the class for the previous day's competitors, usually including at least one K3, possibly a J4 or an R-type, several C-types, L-types, J-types & P-types. Strangely, the Ts never enter... ocTagonally TCRoger [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

[David Lodge]

Oh, I don't know; BSF nuts, bolts and washers in aircraft-grade titanium might be rather nice! Regards, David Lodge

> I accept most of what you said, BUT my M Type had a diagonally cut 5 gallon > can > for a 'boat tail' when the original wooden body must have been bashed in. The > instruments were Triumph and Stewart Warner hand painted dials. The yellow > paint was not quite what the factory meant when they wrote in longhand on the > Build Sheet, "BLUE" ...... The serial number was some long involved series of > numbers assigned by the Department of Motor Vehicles, when they couldn't or > wouldn't look in the proper place for the samped number on the frame horn... > Since it is one of the first to come to the USA, as a new car, I felt it > should > be restored as original "as it was built" as possible.......... This took > ten > years......... > I looked at your "odd bits" and agreed until you got to "BOEING" That cut > deep into my past, as I worked for them(McDonnell Douglas). Whatever they > make > that could be added to an MG MUST be good........... Maybe the cars would > fly?????? How about a Supersonic MG? You know MGs have wings..... > HA! Gotchya! > BOB > > > BADGER wrote: > >> ----- Original Message ----- >> "Hi Kids >> Are published concours standards for the TC available? Is it one >> international standard, or is it regional?..............." >> Martin Johnson >> TC3586 >> >> Keith Martin, editor of Sports Car Market has much to say in the July issue >> of his excellent magazine regarding "internationally accepted standards" of >> restoration. I will quote a portion of Mr. Martin's editorial. ".......... >> For example, an American restoration generally includes a chromed gas tank >> and a car that breaks down 50 feet into the Mille Miglia. A Japanese >> restoration will feature stunning paint, a perfect interior, and a highly >> detailed engine that's missing its crankshaft. An English restoration is a >> pile of rusty bits, slathered with bondo, painted with a broad brush, and >> topped off with a British Heritage Trust Certificate. And an Italian >> restoration begins with a scrap of metal from a hidden Swiss junkyard, often >> containing the chassis number of a missing Ferrari or Alfa competition car >> of the '50s and '60s. After a liberal sprinkling of large-denomination >> Euros, suddenly a complete car appears, which is then smeared with instant >> patina". >> In short, there are no standards. A "restoration" is what you think it >> should be and what your buddies think it should be as is amply demonstrated >> by the wide range of opinions expressed within the small framework of this >> odd little group. Only bear in mind that there is no such thing as an >> "original restoration". Your car is either original or it is restored - it >> can't be both. A totally original car retains the paint, upholstery, and >> everything else that it left the factory with. A "sympathetic restoration" >> is one that retains as much as possible of a car's originality and seeks to >> refurbish only the minimum necessary to keep the car trim and roadworthy and >> only to the original standard. A "full restoration" is to be avoided and >> should only be a last resort due to its highly invasive and historically >> destructive nature to be visited only upon cars that have been so ravaged by >> time and use that no part of their originality can be salvaged. >> I shall endeavor to refrain from any comments regarding the installation of >> various Datsun, Chevrolet, Volkswagen, Nash, Kelvinator, Hoover, spaniel, >> dachshund, Boeing, or any other odd bits which an owner may decide needs to >> be attached to his MG. >> Squire Badger >> >> >> >> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ > > > > > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ > >