Slander - Part II

[Monoxidemanor@aol.com]

Dear Whitworth Heads: We brought this subject to the attention of the list because it applied to several of its members who recently made several derogatory comments about one of the suppliers of parts, i.e., (to paraphrase) "Stay away from so-and-so. He's bad news". These comments bothered me greatly because they were vague opinions, no facts were given to support them and they came from members who also offer professional services, and, presumably have a degree of respect and credibility. For the record, I am not a professional restorer, parts vendor mechanic or a lawyer. I don't mind honest criticism based upon fact and value the judgments of others, including members of this list, since they can help us all avoid costly mistakes. By the way, the list is a valuable source of information and I in no way wish to thwart the free, fair and honest exchange found therein. Since many of the comments that have appeared since my first entry on this subject were biased in favor of the owner, it appears that they came from individuals who have not read the article. To clarify this discussion the following is the salient part of the article published in the September Issue of Car Collector magazine and authored by Lawrence Savell, Esq., Counsel at the law firm of Chadbourne & Parke LLP in New York "According to published news reports, B. Scott Isquick collected antique automobiles, including a 1911 Mercedes 90hp Skiff which had originally been built for the American hat maker, Henry Stetson. Isquick had bought the 90-horse-power car, which had an original sticker price of $18,000, in 1972 for $6,500. All that remained of the original vehicle was a chassis and wheels (some reports say the engine survived as well). After these items sat in his garage for 20 years, Isquick asked auto restoration specialist Dale Adams to restore the vehicle. Complicated by the fact that there apparently were no manuals or repair books available dealing with the vehicle, the restoration took 20 months, 13,000 person hours, and cost $500,000. When complete, the Mercedes boasted a hand-made, triple-layered mahogany body designed by Adams and inspired by turn-of-the century French carriage maker Henri Labourdette. The restored car attained speeds of 90 miles per hour. It won several awards, including being chosen Best of Class at the Meadow Brook Concours d'Elegance in Rochester, Michigan, and receiving Mercedes-Benz's Silver Laurel Trophy for "exhibit[ing] the ultimate in artistic expression timeless beauty[, and] classic elegance". Isquick reportedly was nevertheless not satisfied with the restoration, and apparently communicated his displeasure to others, including other car collectors. He eventually brought a lawsuit against Adams, alleging negligence. Adams counterclaimed for defamation and business interference, alleging that Isquick's negative statements caused him to lose customers, leading to the closing of his business. Although Isquick dropped his lawsuit a couple of years later, Adams proceeded forward to trial on his counterclaim. This February, the jury ruled for Adams, awarding him $2.5 million for slander and $400,000 for business interference." In case you think $500,000 is a lot of money for a restoration of this type, it is sobering to realize that this works out to $38.46/hour and does not include parts or material. I doubt the restorer got rich at that hourly rate. Again, I recommend subscribing to Car Collector magazine and reading the article in its entirety. Hopefully, the point has been made. Any thoughts? Kindest regards, Alan Campbell

[Mark McCombs]

----- Original Message ----- From: "Mark McCombs" loadcel4@infinet.com> To: Monoxidemanor@aol.com> Sent: Saturday, August 04, 2001 5:29 PM Subject: Re: [mg-tabc] Slander - Part II > I think both parties need their heads examined. > Restored? What did he restore? Wheels and a chassis. The rest was a replica, > a reproduction, call it what you will, but certainly not a restoration. > Particularly when it was known that there are no references to originality. > So anyone that would pay $500,000 dollars for someones creative artistic > impression should have used the cash to buy a genuine Monet, hang it in the > dining room, and maybe a TC with the little left over. > This is like George Washingtons original axe. The old wood handle rotted > away, so the museum relaced it. Then, the iron head was lost, so that was > replaced as well. > I supose this article would have held more appropriate court in a magazine > called "Replica Collector". I would give a member of our little party thanks > to steer me clear of trouble waiting to happen (ill fitting parts, buyers > who keep the cash but dont then send parts, ect), but this article has more > to do with privileged few than the likes of a guy like me who just ingested > four pounds of dust, prepping my EXU chassis for paint. > Regards from Ohio, > Mark TC8126 > > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: Monoxidemanor@aol.com> > To: MG-TABC@yahoogroups.com> > Sent: Saturday, August 04, 2001 3:40 PM > Subject: [mg-tabc] Slander - Part II > > > > Dear Whitworth Heads: > > > > We brought this subject to the attention of the list because it applied to > > several of its members who recently made several derogatory comments about > > one of the suppliers of parts, i.e., (to paraphrase) "Stay away from > > so-and-so. He's bad news". These comments bothered me greatly because they > > were vague opinions, no facts were given to support them and they came > from > > members who also offer professional services, and, presumably have a > degree > > of respect and credibility. > > > > For the record, I am not a professional restorer, parts vendor mechanic or > a > > lawyer. I don't mind honest criticism based upon fact and value the > judgments > > of others, including members of this list, since they can help us all > avoid > > costly mistakes. By the way, the list is a valuable source of information > and > > I in no way wish to thwart the free, fair and honest exchange found > therein. > > > > Since many of the comments that have appeared since my first entry on this > > subject were biased in favor of the owner, it appears that they came from > > individuals who have not read the article. To clarify this discussion the > > following is the salient part of the article published in the September > Issue > > of Car Collector magazine and authored by Lawrence Savell, Esq., Counsel > at > > the law firm of Chadbourne & Parke LLP in New York > > > > "According to published news reports, B. Scott Isquick collected antique > > automobiles, including a 1911 Mercedes 90hp Skiff which had originally > been > > built for the American hat maker, Henry Stetson. Isquick had bought the > > 90-horse-power car, which had an original sticker price of $18,000, in > 1972 > > for $6,500. All that remained of the original vehicle was a chassis and > > wheels (some reports say the engine survived as well). After these items > sat > > in his garage for 20 years, Isquick asked auto restoration specialist Dale > > Adams to restore the vehicle. > > > > Complicated by the fact that there apparently were no manuals or repair > books > > available dealing with the vehicle, the restoration took 20 months, 13,000 > > person hours, and cost $500,000. When complete, the Mercedes boasted a > > hand-made, triple-layered mahogany body designed by Adams and inspired by > > turn-of-the century French carriage maker Henri Labourdette. The restored > car > > attained speeds of 90 miles per hour. It won several awards, including > being > > chosen Best of Class at the Meadow Brook Concours d'Elegance in Rochester, > > Michigan, and receiving Mercedes-Benz's Silver Laurel Trophy for > > "exhibit[ing] the ultimate in artistic expression timeless beauty[, and] > > classic elegance". > > > > Isquick reportedly was nevertheless not satisfied with the restoration, > and > > apparently communicated his displeasure to others, including other car > > collectors. He eventually brought a lawsuit against Adams, alleging > > negligence. Adams counterclaimed for defamation and business interference, > > alleging that Isquick's negative statements caused him to lose customers, > > leading to the closing of his business. Although Isquick dropped his > lawsuit > > a couple of years later, Adams proceeded forward to trial on his > counterclaim. > > > > This February, the jury ruled for Adams, awarding him $2.5 million for > > slander and $400,000 for business interference." > > > > In case you think $500,000 is a lot of money for a restoration of this > type, > > it is sobering to realize that this works out to $38.46/hour and does not > > include parts or material. I doubt the restorer got rich at that hourly > > rate. > > > > Again, I recommend subscribing to Car Collector magazine and reading the > > article in its entirety. Hopefully, the point has been made. Any thoughts? > > > > Kindest regards, > > > > > > Alan Campbell > > > > > > > > > > > > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ > > > > > > >

[Want1937hd@aol.com]

Alan, Thank you for reprinting the article. I have personaly seen the car in question at the AACA Meet in Hershey, Pa. where it won first place. In my opinion, it was one of the finest restorations I have ever seen. I have over 75 AACA National judging credits to my name, if that is worth anything. It would be interesting to know what this car would bring on the open market today. Bob TC4956

[Monoxidemanor@aol.com]

Mark: Your comments are salient. After writing my message to the list this morning I phoned Dale Adams and spoke with him at length. According to him, as I understood our conversation, one of the areas of contention between him and the owner was that the owner apparently wanted to represent the car as a restoration of the original: since there were no drawings or photographs of the original car to go on, the restorer wanted to represent the car for what it is, an interpretive replica. By the way, rebodied cars are fully acceptable to many car clubs, including the CCCA, RROC, RREC, AACA and Horseless Carriage Club. These entities recognize that wooden bodied and wooden body frames, especially on pre-WWI cars were subject to rotting off a long time ago. The general rule is that a rebodied car must be done in the same style and with the same materials and hardware of the period. As a result, we have many wonderful examples of historic vehicles still running the roads and on display. Without these rules, we would have only bare metal chassis of which few would take interest and the rest would have been scrapped. The most notable replica bodied car that I can think of is the most expensive car in the world, a 1907 Rolls-Royce, registration AX201, which is insured for over $90 million. It is known as the "Silver Ghost" and has an interesting history of being preserved through the sole efforts of one person for many years and then being returned and lovingly restored. Isn't replacing wooden body parts and complete bodies acceptable in MG circles as well, especially with pre-WWII cars? Best regards, Alan Campbell