old dual sport guy here

[Fred Hink]

Excellent review of the petcock system.   Fred http://www.arrowheadmotorsports.com   [b]From:[/b] DSN_KLR650@yahoogroups.com">salinej1@... [DSN_KLR650] [b]Sent:[/b] Thursday, September 29, 2016 10:35 AM [b]To:[/b] DSN_KLR650@yahoogroups.com">DSN_KLR650@yahoogroups.com ; mjearl4@... [b]Cc:[/b] normkel32@... [b]Subject:[/b] Re: [DSN_KLR650] Re: Fuel tank mystery.    

Listers,   I recently read on a Ural forum about a guy using a stainless steel paint gun filter on a petcock draw straw.  No long term results were available but it fixed a clogged screen fuel delivery issue.   It was stated the filter was bought at Lowe's and was Wagner PN 0516720.   I doubt the filters on the drawstraws are the issue.   Doing fuel delivery tests I suggest the norm is a gallon in three to six minutes.  If it is slower than that it might suggest an issue with the petcock.  A clogged tank vent system will also cause a reduced flow after a bit of fuel has been used and allowed a vacuum in the fuel tank.  Sometimes that is corrected by finding a pinched vent line from installing the seat carelessly.  Also if the end of the vent line is clogged (mud or insects) it can cause a vacuum in the tank.   The stock KLR petcock has two valves.  The first valve is the one on the side you can turn to select off, on or reserve.  That is the selector valve.  That valve determines if or how fuel will leave the fuel tank and be delivered to the petcock.  After fuel gets to the petcock the second valve is in play.  The second valve is the vacuum shutoff valve.  The vacuum shutoff valve determines if/when fuel will leave the petcock and be delivered to the carb.  The vacuum shutoff valve is controlled by a spring and vacuum.  The spring holds the valve closed until vacuum delivered when the engine is running overcomes the spring pressure and opens the valve.  When the engine stops the vacuum is gone and the spring pressure closes the valve.   If the vacuum line to the petcock is old it might leak a bit of vacuum.  You get two issues if that happens.  One is the vacuum might not be strong enough to fully open the vacuum shutoff valve and fuel delivery will be reduced.  The second issue is a vacuum leak will allow air into the intake after the carb and lean the air/fuel mixture.  In most cases you probably won't be able to tell a difference in engine performance except maybe at idle on a warm/hot engine.   Another issue that happens is the vacuum diaphragm in the petcock leaks and can't pull the vacuum shutoff valve fully open.  That can be a very difficult issue to resolve.  A fuel delivery test can give you data for evaluation.  If the vacuum diaphragm leaks fuel into the vacuum line it can cause stalling in closed throttle situations.  The fuel can be burnt at higher throttle settings but at idle/closed throttle it causes such a rich air/fuel mixture it is too rich to combust and the engine dies.  The test for that is to ride the bike.  Do a closed throttle deceleration and immediately pull off the road.  Remove the vacuum line and look inside it.  It should be dry.  If it is wet, damp, dripping fuel it suggests the vacuum diaphragm is leaking fuel and is causing the won't idle/dying situation.  Sometimes a rider will have the won't idle situation and will turn the idle adjusting screw to raise the idle.  What that does is open the throttle plate a bit allowing more air and leaning the rich mixture.  That allows the engine to run but the idle will now be too high.  Factory specs for the idle speed are 1,200-1,400 rpm although some owners have excellent results as low as 800 rpm.   I'll suggest having reduced fuel delivery or no fuel delivery when the tank isn't full sometimes happens.  I've had it happen to me and switching to reserve fixed the issue.  Next ride (knowing I had plenty of fuel) I switched back to on and everything worked fine.  No idea what happened and for me that is a question not worth searching for an answer.  I'll suggest it is maybe a good practice to not run a tank extremely low on fuel if it can be avoided.  I would also not intentionally put the petcock in reserve mode unless the on mode wasn't delivering fuel.  Different strokes for different folks and I'll encourage you to do what works well for you.   A clogged carb vent will cause an engine to not run as it will prevent fuel from filling the carb float bowl.  Doing the "tee" mod if usually an excellent preventative measure.   Best, Jeff Saline The Beautiful Black Hills of South Dakota 75 R90/6, 03 KLR650   <><><><><><> On Thu, 29 Sep 2016 09:52:13 -0600 "Martin Earl mjearl4@... [DSN_KLR650]" DSN_KLR650@yahoogroups.com> writes:   Hi Norm, The clogged screen seems logical, though the screen looked clean visually, and compared to another petcock, looked the same. Additionally, I think I sprayed out the screens with carb cleaner. without any effect. The one thing I don't think I did was a flow test through the petcock, which I suggest that JL should do. Trouble shooting and validating another persons petcock problem with Jeff Saline, we started a problem free KLR, and allowed the fuel bowl to be completely full. We then removed the fuel line from the carb, placed the fuel line in a beaker and started the bike and a stop watch.  We observed (as I recall) at least a 1.5L/minute so we felt that a KLR bike could not possibly be consuming fuel faster than fuel deliver = no fuel delivery problem if you observed that kind of fuel flow.   Unfortunately, I don't think I did that...but changing the petcock fixed the problem.   m1.   On Thu, Sep 29, 2016 at 4:50 AM, Norm Keller normkel32@... [DSN_KLR650] DSN_KLR650@yahoogroups.com> wrote: Martin, could the problem with your petcock, have been plugged screen(s)?   I've seen that on several types of machines in the last few years. There appears to be a "chalk-like" material which has built up on the screen wires, which restricted flow.   . . . . . . . .   ____________________________________________________________ [b]How To Fix Your Fatigue (Do This Every Day)[/b] gundrymd.com http://thirdpartyoffers.juno.com/TGL3142/57ed43582229a43581892st01vuc [img]https://ec.yimg.com/ec?url=https%3A%2F% ... JF1RDg--~E[/img]

[Yahoo]

So I have had none of these issues on my 06 KLR. I did replace the petcock with one of Fred's gravity feed petcocks to avoid petcock diaphragm issues in the future. However, when I purchased  my bike it had no hoses connected to the two gas tank vent tubes at all. What is recommended? Thanks to all for the great info. Paul Sent from my iPhone

On Sep 29, 2016, at 12:17 PM, "'Fred Hink' moabmc@... [DSN_KLR650]" DSN_KLR650@yahoogroups.com> wrote:

  Excellent review of the petcock system.   Fred http://www.arrowheadmotorsports.com   [b]From:[/b] DSN_KLR650@yahoogroups.com">salinej1@... [DSN_KLR650] [b]Sent:[/b] Thursday, September 29, 2016 10:35 AM [b]To:[/b] DSN_KLR650@yahoogroups.com">DSN_KLR650@yahoogroups.com ; mjearl4@... [b]Cc:[/b] normkel32@... [b]Subject:[/b] Re: [DSN_KLR650] Re: Fuel tank mystery.    

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[jeffsaline]

Paul,   At the rear of the tank the left nipple is the cap vent.  The stock hose is blue.  The right nipple is for the recovery system.  The stock hose is red.   With no hoses it suggests the recovery system has fallen off the bike and is no longer in use.  Cap the right nipple and put a hose towards the rear shock on the left nipple.   You can probably buy a cap at any decent auto parts store.  Maybe ask at the counter to buy a single cap versus buying a selection of caps since you only will need one.  You should be able to buy 2 foot of hose at the same time.  Sorry I don't know the size you need.  It is metric but I'll make a wild guess 1/4" inside diameter will be about right.   If you need a cap for the carb vacuum nipple (top front of the carb, brass) a 3/16" cover works well.   You might also be able to get a cover that will work at a decent local hardware store.  Ask for a thread protector.  They will probably be in a Doorman kit and might have different colors depending on the size.   Best,   Jeff   On Thu, 29 Sep 2016 12:34:37 -0500 Yahoo writes: So I have had none of these issues on my 06 KLR. I did replace the petcock with one of Fred's gravity feed petcocks to avoid petcock diaphragm issues in the future. However, when I purchased  my bike it had no hoses connected to the two gas tank vent tubes at all. What is recommended? Thanks to all for the great info. Paul . . . . . . . . .   ____________________________________________________________ [b]How To: Fix Spider Veins [Watch][/b] beverlyhillsbeautylab.com http://thirdpartyoffers.juno.com/TGL3142/57ed5ee189b925ee1199bst01vuc [img]https://ec.yimg.com/ec?url=https%3A%2F% ... 7do3Ew--~E[/img]

[Yahoo]

Sounds easy enough. I'm most curious about the carb nipple.  I did put the cap Fred provided with his petcock over the petcock vacuum carb nipple. I will check the other nipple but surely it is already capped. Thanks Jeff! Paul Sent from my iPhone

On Sep 29, 2016, at 1:34 PM, "salinej1@... [DSN_KLR650]" DSN_KLR650@yahoogroups.com> wrote:

  Paul,   At the rear of the tank the left nipple is the cap vent.  The stock hose is blue.  The right nipple is for the recovery system.  The stock hose is red.   With no hoses it suggests the recovery system has fallen off the bike and is no longer in use.  Cap the right nipple and put a hose towards the rear shock on the left nipple.   You can probably buy a cap at any decent auto parts store.  Maybe ask at the counter to buy a single cap versus buying a selection of caps since you only will need one.  You should be able to buy 2 foot of hose at the same time.  Sorry I don't know the size you need.  It is metric but I'll make a wild guess 1/4" inside diameter will be about right.   If you need a cap for the carb vacuum nipple (top front of the carb, brass) a 3/16" cover works well.   You might also be able to get a cover that will work at a decent local hardware store.  Ask for a thread protector.  They will probably be in a Doorman kit and might have different colors depending on the size.   Best,   Jeff   On Thu, 29 Sep 2016 12:34:37 -0500 Yahoo writes: So I have had none of these issues on my 06 KLR. I did replace the petcock with one of Fred's gravity feed petcocks to avoid petcock diaphragm issues in the future. However, when I purchased  my bike it had no hoses connected to the two gas tank vent tubes at all. What is recommended? Thanks to all for the great info. Paul . . . . . . . . .   ____________________________________________________________ [b]How To: Fix Spider Veins [Watch][/b] beverlyhillsbeautylab.com http://thirdpartyoffers.juno.com/TGL3142/57ed5ee189b925ee1199bst01vuc [img]https://ec.yimg.com/ec?url=https%3A%2F% ... 7do3Ew--~E[/img]

[Fred Hink]

Paul,   I think you may have me confused with someone else.  Unless you meant to say the carburetor I supplied rather than a petcock.   Fred http://www.arrowheadmotorsports.com   [b]From:[/b] DSN_KLR650@yahoogroups.com">Yahoo pwhatfourever@... [DSN_KLR650] [b]Sent:[/b] Thursday, September 29, 2016 12:57 PM [b]To:[/b] DSN_KLR650@yahoogroups.com">DSN_KLR650@yahoogroups.com ; [b]Subject:[/b] Re: [DSN_KLR650] Re: Fuel tank mystery.     Sounds easy enough. I'm most curious about the carb nipple.  I did put the cap Fred provided with his petcock over the petcock vacuum carb nipple. I will check the other nipple but surely it is already capped.   Thanks Jeff!   Paul Sent from my iPhone On Sep 29, 2016, at 1:34 PM, "salinej1@... [DSN_KLR650]" DSN_KLR650@yahoogroups.com> wrote:

 

Paul,   At the rear of the tank the left nipple is the cap vent.  The stock hose is blue.  The right nipple is for the recovery system.  The stock hose is red.   With no hoses it suggests the recovery system has fallen off the bike and is no longer in use.  Cap the right nipple and put a hose towards the rear shock on the left nipple.   You can probably buy a cap at any decent auto parts store.  Maybe ask at the counter to buy a single cap versus buying a selection of caps since you only will need one.  You should be able to buy 2 foot of hose at the same time.  Sorry I don't know the size you need.  It is metric but I'll make a wild guess 1/4" inside diameter will be about right.   If you need a cap for the carb vacuum nipple (top front of the carb, brass) a 3/16" cover works well.   You might also be able to get a cover that will work at a decent local hardware store.  Ask for a thread protector.  They will probably be in a Doorman kit and might have different colors depending on the size.   Best,   Jeff   On Thu, 29 Sep 2016 12:34:37 -0500 Yahoo pwhatfourever@...> writes: So I have had none of these issues on my 06 KLR. I did replace the petcock with one of Fred's gravity feed petcocks to avoid petcock diaphragm issues in the future. However, when I purchased  my bike it had no hoses connected to the two gas tank vent tubes at all. What is recommended? Thanks to all for the great info. Paul . . . . . . . . .   ____________________________________________________________ [b]How To: Fix Spider Veins [Watch][/b] beverlyhillsbeautylab.com http://thirdpartyoffers.juno.com/TGL3142/57ed5ee189b925ee1199bst01vuc [img]https://ec.yimg.com/ec?url=https%3A%2F% ... 7do3Ew--~E[/img]

[jocelynlabreche]

Thanks everybody for all your very good insights.

I forgot to mention that it is an '06 so age might be for something and I will definitely investigate the petcock closely.

Since then I put a couple hundreds km and the bike didn't give any other symptoms. I believe I will wait for the time to store it for winter to take it apart unless it does it again before that.

I admit I was pushing my luck running on reserve but since my total daily commute is around 150km I would have to visit the gas station every second day. It has never been an issue before and I really like the autonomy range of the KLR for that.

Thanks again !

JL

[achesley43@ymail.com]

Great job on the fuel system explanation Jeff.  When I was having problems a few years back , I had a hand vacuum test pump I was able to do the fuel flow test without running the engine. It would lose about 3 lbs a minute so I changed the valve to a manual unit. No problems. 

[buck12ga2000]

Hey Paul, How can we avoid ethanol laced gasoline? I mean, are there some gas stations that sell only pure gas? I would like to avoid ethanol too, especially for my outboard motor. Thanks, Buck

[GMac999]

I use pure-gas.org to find stations near me that sell gasoline without ethanol.

 

Greg

 

 

[b]From:[/b] DSN_KLR650@yahoogroups.com [mailto:DSN_KLR650@yahoogroups.com] [b]Sent:[/b] Thursday, October 13, 2016 6:44 AM [b]To:[/b] DSN_KLR650@yahoogroups.com [b]Subject:[/b] Re: [DSN_KLR650] Re: Fuel tank mystery.

 

Hey Paul, How can we avoid ethanol laced gasoline? I mean, are there some gas stations that sell only pure gas? I would like to avoid ethanol too, especially for my outboard motor. Thanks, Buck

 

[buck12ga2000]

Thanks, Greg! Great site! I will now know where to look for pure gas. Buck